Kid with ADHD got MORE hyper on cypro

[InChristAlone]

My 9 yr old son has the hyperactive type of ADHD and we decided to try cypro because he also struggles with anxiety and poor appetite. We got up to 2 mg and I literally didn't see ANY signs of drowsiness other than when it was time to go to sleep. I can only take 0.5mg and the drowsiness never seems to end. Yesterday he was hyper pretty much all day, almost giddy. He is eating more but still struggles with some meals. So last night we didn't give it to him to see how he is off it to compare the effects. I am just astounded 2 mg didn't bring his energy level down at all. He also has nocturia and he said he wet the bed last night a lot. So maybe the cypro was helping at least with that. Does anyone have any ideas for his apparent ability to just go go go? I need to test out niacinamide some more after realizing his histamine must be very high, he flushes from a small amount of niacin.

 

[Kayaker]

Cyproheptadine makes it harder for me to pee, so I'm not surprised he wets the bed less on cypro.

 

[redsun]

My 9 yr old son has the hyperactive type of ADHD and we decided to try cypro because he also struggles with anxiety and poor appetite. We got up to 2 mg and I literally didn't see ANY signs of drowsiness other than when it was time to go to sleep. I can only take 0.5mg and the drowsiness never seems to end. Yesterday he was hyper pretty much all day, almost giddy. He is eating more but still struggles with some meals. So last night we didn't give it to him to see how he is off it to compare the effects. I am just astounded 2 mg didn't bring his energy level down at all. He also has nocturia and he said he wet the bed last night a lot. So maybe the cypro was helping at least with that. Does anyone have any ideas for his apparent ability to just go go go? I need to test out niacinamide some more after realizing his histamine must be very high, he flushes from a small amount of niacin.

Maybe his problem is that he needs more cholinergic activity not less (which cypro achieves). Acetylcholine helps calm down a hyperactive nervous system and is necessary for learning and concentration. Perhaps try giving him more foods higher in choline and richer in zinc like red meat and eggs (zinc is known to generally increase appetite and increases cholinergic activity). This is also related to appetite and anxiety, as uncontrolled sympathetic activity tends to increase anxiety and blunt the appetite by reducing blood flow away from digestive organs.

 

[youngsinatra]

My 9 yr old son has the hyperactive type of ADHD and we decided to try cypro because he also struggles with anxiety and poor appetite. We got up to 2 mg and I literally didn't see ANY signs of drowsiness other than when it was time to go to sleep. I can only take 0.5mg and the drowsiness never seems to end. Yesterday he was hyper pretty much all day, almost giddy. He is eating more but still struggles with some meals. So last night we didn't give it to him to see how he is off it to compare the effects. I am just astounded 2 mg didn't bring his energy level down at all. He also has nocturia and he said he wet the bed last night a lot. So maybe the cypro was helping at least with that. Does anyone have any ideas for his apparent ability to just go go go? I need to test out niacinamide some more after realizing his histamine must be very high, he flushes from a small amount of niacin.

People with low histamine levels can experience adverse reactions to anti-histamines like Benadryl for example. Dr. Pfeiffer said that people with histapenia have an intolerance to anti-histamine medications.

Nutritional deficiencies of the essential fatty acids and deficiencies of the minerals zinc and selenium have been shown to influence neuronal function and produce defects in neuronal plasticity, as well as impact behavior in children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.

Children with ADHD often have a high copper:zinc ratio. Maybe add in more beef and eggs into his diet which contains zinc, iron, choline, selenium, B-vitamins and a relative lack of copper.

What does he typically eat and what supplements is he taking?

 

[InChristAlone]

Maybe his problem is that he needs more cholinergic activity not less (which cypro achieves). Acetylcholine helps calm down a hyperactive nervous system and is necessary for learning and concentration. Perhaps try giving him more foods higher in choline and richer in zinc like red meat and eggs (zinc is known to generally increase appetite and increases cholinergic activity). This is also related to appetite and anxiety, as uncontrolled sympathetic activity tends to increase anxiety and blunt the appetite by reducing blood flow away from digestive organs.

Thanks for your comment you seem to know so much about these things which I've been trying to figure out for yrs, but never truly getting it. He unfortunately won't eat eggs everyday, sometimes he will. He usually gets some kind of meat everyday, recently he was chowing on beef jerky and tonight for dinner is pot roast. It just doesn't seem like any food shifts anything very much. Kinda the same for me, like imbalances are set in stone and hard to change without targeted supplements acting like drugs. Oh another symptom of coming off the cypro today was lightheadedness when he got up. It was almost like the cypro was causing a rebound the next day of adrenal hormones keeping him going even longer than he normally would, and now he's back to his usual self. Very odd!

So do you disagree with @Hans article on the high acetylcholine syndrome? He says it can cause aggression which is the other thing we are dealing with, he has struggled with rage associated with not getting the things he wants or something triggering him. For the first time ever the other day he chose to self regulate instead of breaking the door down. But he did seem to have more self confidence in trying to get the things he wanted lol. I felt that too on cypro which I took for 1.5 yrs. It was very anxiolytic I almost didn't think I could get off it. But I needed to because of that brain dulling effect antihistamines have.

 

[mostlylurking]

My 9 yr old son has the hyperactive type of ADHD and we decided to try cypro because he also struggles with anxiety and poor appetite. We got up to 2 mg and I literally didn't see ANY signs of drowsiness other than when it was time to go to sleep. I can only take 0.5mg and the drowsiness never seems to end. Yesterday he was hyper pretty much all day, almost giddy. He is eating more but still struggles with some meals. So last night we didn't give it to him to see how he is off it to compare the effects. I am just astounded 2 mg didn't bring his energy level down at all. He also has nocturia and he said he wet the bed last night a lot. So maybe the cypro was helping at least with that. Does anyone have any ideas for his apparent ability to just go go go? I need to test out niacinamide some more after realizing his histamine must be very high, he flushes from a small amount of niacin.

Please consider the thiamine deficiency/ADHD connection.
links:

You searched for adhd - Hormones Matter

www.hormonesmatter.com

this site also has good information about thiamine: Synergy Health & Wellness

Cypro is taken to lower serotonin. Thiamine lowers brain serotonin: Effect of thiamine deficiency on brain serotonin turnover - PubMed

 

[InChristAlone]

People with low histamine levels can experience adverse reactions to anti-histamines like Benadryl for example. Dr. Pfeiffer said that people with histapenia have an intolerance to anti-histamine medications.

Nutritional deficiencies of the essential fatty acids and deficiencies of the minerals zinc and selenium have been shown to influence neuronal function and produce defects in neuronal plasticity, as well as impact behavior in children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.

Children with ADHD often have a high copper:zinc ratio. Maybe add in more beef and eggs into his diet which contains zinc, iron, choline, selenium, B-vitamins and a relative lack of copper.

What does he typically eat and what supplements is he taking?

Yeah I personally hate benedryl, it made me wired, but the cypro worked as an anti-anxiety med for me.

I did see that ADHD is associated with high copper which would make sense as it's zinc that helps appetite. He does eat meat everyday, but not many eggs. He craves stimulants even though we've had to limit them hard because it makes him so hyper. He is drinking chocolate milk right now. No supplements. He has been my high sugar eater, he has an endless ability to drink sugary drinks, and for a long time we let him drink soda at 4-5 cans a day! I realize this was a mistake and probably led to nutrient deficiencies. It was hard because I also wanted to have soda and if he saw me having it he would want it too. We didn't know how to parent him up until the last few months.

So his diet is mainly...
chocolate milk
burgers
french fries or mashed potatoes
pot roast
chicken and rice
occasional eggs
LOTS of juice
waffles
sweets and pastries
milkshakes

Please consider the thiamine deficiency/ADHD connection.
links:

You searched for adhd - Hormones Matter

www.hormonesmatter.com

this site also has good information about thiamine: Synergy Health & Wellness

Cypro is taken to lower serotonin. Thiamine lowers brain serotonin: Effect of thiamine deficiency on brain serotonin turnover - PubMed

Yep his high sugar diet was a mistake, he clearly has a dysregulated nervous system and it's heartbreaking at times. I need to find a way to give it to him as it tastes pretty gross. I had 100 mg yesterday and I think it crashed me! Like I couldn't get in enough food. Do you think that could happen to him too?

 

[mostlylurking]

Yeah I personally hate benedryl, it made me wired, but the cypro worked as an anti-anxiety med for me.

I did see that ADHD is associated with high copper which would make sense as it's zinc that helps appetite. He does eat meat everyday, but not many eggs. He craves stimulants even though we've had to limit them hard because it makes him so hyper. He is drinking chocolate milk right now. No supplements. He has been my high sugar eater, he has an endless ability to drink sugary drinks, and for a long time we let him drink soda at 4-5 cans a day! I realize this was a mistake and probably led to nutrient deficiencies. It was hard because I also wanted to have soda and if he saw me having it he would want it too. We didn't know how to parent him up until the last few months.

So his diet is mainly...
chocolate milk
burgers
french fries or mashed potatoes
pot roast
chicken and rice
occasional eggs
LOTS of juice
waffles
sweets and pastries
milkshakes


Yep his high sugar diet was a mistake, he clearly has a dysregulated nervous system and it's heartbreaking at times. I need to find a way to give it to him as it tastes pretty gross. I had 100 mg yesterday and I think it crashed me! Like I couldn't get in enough food. Do you think that could happen to him too?

In a perfect world, you could find a doctor to help you with the dosage. If you are traveling this road solo, you could read everything you can find about thiamine and have a go at it, carefully, slowly. Thiamine helps you metabolize sugar. If you take a big dose of it, it will do just that and this results in the blood sugar level going down. It is important to eat real food and figure out how to keep that blood sugar level. A high sugar diet is a disaster if you are dealing with a thiamine deficiency. How old is he? Can he swallow a capsule? I've read that there's been some good results with suppositories.

Here's a study done with TTFD in suppositories for autism: Treatment of autism spectrum children with thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide: a pilot study. - NeL.edu

The diet you have listed above is causing the problem. Look into High Calorie Malnutrition. Thiamine Deficiency Disease, Dysautonomia, and High Calorie Malnutrition | ScienceDirect

 

[InChristAlone]

This was his HTMA back in 2018 if it means anything, his copper was low and zinc pretty good. But I know that isn't a measurement of actual copper status.

 

[mostlylurking]

This was his HTMA back in 2018 if it means anything, his copper was low and zinc pretty good. But I know that isn't a measurement of actual copper status.
View attachment 29494

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw4jweZL7EA

 

[InChristAlone]

In a perfect world, you could find a doctor to help you with the dosage. If you are traveling this road solo, you could read everything you can find about thiamine and have a go at it, carefully, slowly. Thiamine helps you metabolize sugar. If you take a big dose of it, it will do just that and this results in the blood sugar level going down. It is important to eat real food and figure out how to keep that blood sugar level. A high sugar diet is a disaster if you are dealing with a thiamine deficiency. How old is he? Can he swallow a capsule? I've read that there's been some good results with suppositories.

Here's a study done with TTFD in suppositories for autism: Treatment of autism spectrum children with thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide: a pilot study. - NeL.edu

The diet you have listed above is causing the problem. Look into High Calorie Malnutrition. Thiamine Deficiency Disease, Dysautonomia, and High Calorie Malnutrition | ScienceDirect

He is 9 and has yet to learn to swallow capsules, but I could try. We always try giving things mixed in a drink. Yeah I think it helped me burn through sugar very fast yesterday! Not sure why this is not more well known for those who struggle with high blood sugar or diabetes! His excessive thirst for sugary drinks has always been worrying to me. He also struggles to gain weight though he is keeping on his growth curve.

 

[mostlylurking]

He is 9 and has yet to learn to swallow capsules, but I could try. We always try giving things mixed in a drink. Yeah I think it helped me burn through sugar very fast yesterday! Not sure why this is not more well known for those who struggle with high blood sugar or diabetes! His excessive thirst for sugary drinks has always been worrying to me. He also struggles to gain weight though he is keeping on his growth curve.

Diabetics are thiamine deficient. It is important that you change this child's diet. The older he gets, the more difficult this will become. Please spend time educating yourself so that you can help your son.

Elliot Overton's website has excellent videos about thiamine that I'm sure you will find helpful. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFqXidfUsI0vm73xsBMIQdQ

Elliot likes to recommend TTFD thiamine. He has a good video about dealing with the issues of bad reactions to it. I couldn't tolerate it (headache) so I stuck with thiamine hcl. It is very important to take thiamine only with water, never with anything that is sweet because the sugar cancels it out. I use the pure powder and dissolve it in plain water.

 

[InChristAlone]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw4jweZL7EA

He has a lot of these symptoms:
"Severe thiamin deprivation resulted in depressed mental states, generalized weakness, giddiness, backache, soreness of muscles, insomnia, anorexia, nausea, vomiting, weight loss, poor muscular tone, low blood pressure and bradycardia with the subjects at rest. On exertion, heart palpitation and precordial distress (pseudoangina) occurred. Tachycardia and sinus arrhythmia were observed. The investigators reported electrocardiographic changes and impairment of gastro intestinal motility."
"Moderate, prolonged restriction of thiamin, but not of calories, resulted in emotional instability, reflected by irritability, moodiness, quarrelsome behavior, lack of cooperation, vague fears and agitation, mental depression, variable restriction of activity and numerous somatic complaints."

Except he has never been weak, he is extremely strong, so strong he has been mowing our lawn and using the weed trimmer in the 86 degree heat. I'm assuming the small amount in fortified flour was his saving grace.

 

[redsun]

This was his HTMA back in 2018 if it means anything, his copper was low and zinc pretty good. But I know that isn't a measurement of actual copper status.
View attachment 29494

Nothing wrong with the child likely in relation to mineral toxicities. But you can probably look into B-vitamin gummies or liquids that contain all the B-vitamins in doses for children. This will be helpful for his symptoms without supplementing too high amounts of nutrients which can be problematic for children.

 

[mostlylurking]

He has a lot of these symptoms:
"Severe thiamin deprivation resulted in depressed mental states, generalized weakness, giddiness, backache, soreness of muscles, insomnia, anorexia, nausea, vomiting, weight loss, poor muscular tone, low blood pressure and bradycardia with the subjects at rest. On exertion, heart palpitation and precordial distress (pseudoangina) occurred. Tachycardia and sinus arrhythmia were observed. The investigators reported electrocardiographic changes and impairment of gastro intestinal motility."
"Moderate, prolonged restriction of thiamin, but not of calories, resulted in emotional instability, reflected by irritability, moodiness, quarrelsome behavior, lack of cooperation, vague fears and agitation, mental depression, variable restriction of activity and numerous somatic complaints."

Except he has never been weak, he is extremely strong, so strong he has been mowing our lawn and using the weed trimmer in the 86 degree heat. I'm assuming the small amount in fortified flour was his saving grace.

13 Signs of Thiamine Deficiency (B1)

Cliff notes: Thiamine deficiency was not solved decades ago by enriching grains and is alive and well. The implications of this have a huge impact on modern day health and disease. It's always been amazing to me that a country with an endless food supply and resources can coexist with so much...

butternutrition.com

Beriberi : Facts, causes, symptoms, complications, & prevention | FactDr

Beriberi is a disease that is caused by the deficiency of vitamin B1 in the body. This vitamin is also known as thiamine. Thiamine deficiency can cause the patient to develop critical conditions known as Korsakoff syndrome and Wernicke encephalopathy. Often, the onset of the disease is insidious.

factdr.com

 

[InChristAlone]

Nothing wrong with the child likely in relation to mineral toxicities. But you can probably look into B-vitamin gummies or liquids that contain all the B-vitamins in doses for children. This will be helpful for his symptoms without supplementing too high amounts of nutrients which can be problematic for children.

Yeah I think I could imbalance him trying to mega dose any particular vitamin. I actually just bought methyl b12 drops and folinic acid to try with my other son who has asperger's. He didn't seem to have any side effects like I do with it, he seemed more energetic actually, he's struggling with motivation to do much of anything off the computer. I'm just leery of the types used in the multi it's usually folic acid and cyanocobalimin. But I will consider a good multi B.

 

[tankasnowgod]

My 9 yr old son has the hyperactive type of ADHD and we decided to try cypro because he also struggles with anxiety and poor appetite. We got up to 2 mg and I literally didn't see ANY signs of drowsiness other than when it was time to go to sleep. I can only take 0.5mg and the drowsiness never seems to end. Yesterday he was hyper pretty much all day, almost giddy. He is eating more but still struggles with some meals. So last night we didn't give it to him to see how he is off it to compare the effects. I am just astounded 2 mg didn't bring his energy level down at all. He also has nocturia and he said he wet the bed last night a lot. So maybe the cypro was helping at least with that. Does anyone have any ideas for his apparent ability to just go go go? I need to test out niacinamide some more after realizing his histamine must be very high, he flushes from a small amount of niacin.

When I did just 1mg a day, I had the classic "zombieness" in the morning for weeks. I stopped that dose, because it was so bad.

Later, when I did a "loading dose" of 4mg, the "zombieness" faded in about 3 days, and always cleared after a morning cup of coffee, and seemed completely gone in a week or two. Others have reported something similar with "loading doses." I never scaled back to 1mg, but probably could have. 4mg had a sort of energizing effect after a while, I couldn't take it too close to bed.

So, this testimonial somewhat lines up with my experience.

If you plan on using it again (or are currently), you may want to try a loading dose for a week or two.

 

[InChristAlone]

When I did just 1mg a day, I had the classic "zombieness" in the morning for weeks. I stopped that dose, because it was so bad.

Later, when I did a "loading dose" of 4mg, the "zombieness" faded in about 3 days, and always cleared after a morning cup of coffee, and seemed completely gone in a week or two. Others have reported something similar with "loading doses." I never scaled back to 1mg, but probably could have. 4mg had a sort of energizing effect after a while, I couldn't take it too close to bed.

So, this testimonial somewhat lines up with my experience.

If you plan on using it again (or are currently), you may want to try a loading dose for a week or two.

That's interesting! I did have one thought about that since for people who struggle to gain weight they use large doses. So maybe for him a low dose every now and then might keep his energy levels from being too excessive. I may try out a loading dose at some point just to see what it's like. I always thought I'd die from drowsiness if I did that haha.

 

[JamesGatz]

Sounds like you could use a babysitter *AHEM* Think I know this one bloke who might be available by the name of James - people call him the Cesar Milan of children

 

[Kayaker]

Sounds like you could use a babysitter *AHEM* Think I know this one bloke who might be available by the name of James - people call him the Cesar Milan of children