Kick **** Experience With White Button Mushrooms

David90

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Calling on community members to update any recent experiences with WBM :):

@ecstatichamster @Hans @Mauritio @Beastmode @Frankdee20 @Wagner83 @Ideonaut @GreekDemiGod @David90 @equipoise @Inaut @Peatogenic and anyone else who experimented with it.

- within 2 hours from the first dose, I experienced a sense of calmness and wellbeing with a sudden decrease in water retention; it was very noticeable because I clenched my fists as tight as I could without feeling any resistance, my fingers felt thinner, my face felt relaxed and slimmer, and any stiffness in my muscles was gone; I suspect this was also from lowered cortisol
- the benefits are continuous and stable, most noticeably the decrease in inflammation and water retention which translates into improved executive function and physical coordination, as well as increased endurance; basic physical activities such as walking are effortless
- plus everything else that others reported in this thread; somewhat increased stomach secretions but probably because I eat them as a side dish and not cooked in a mixed meal; morning wood that starts and lasts for the 2nd half of the night

I suspect this is a high dose to have every day and might have to cut it down to every other day or lower daily amounts.

Obviously, the AI inhibition is not the only mechanism, but on the topic of AI here is a post from BodyBuilding forum, with lab tests:

View attachment 28177

WBM is really interesting. There are ongoing trials with positive results for both breast and prostate cancer.

I Noticed those three Things too. I Personally eat around 80-100g Daily nowadays.
 

miquelangeles

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@Mauritio
Have you looked into black tea theaflavins?
It seems they inhibit aromatase twice as much as green tea.
But they also reduce circulating DHT somewhat.

From: sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ejca.2004.06.018

Black tea polyphenol theaflavins inhibit aromatase activity and attenuate tamoxifen resistance in HER2/neu-transfected human breast cancer cells through tyrosine kinase suppression

Abstract
The aromatase enzyme, which converts androstenedione to oestrone, regulates the availability of oestrogen to support the growth of hormone-dependent breast tumours. In this study, we investigated the inhibitory effects of black tea polyphenols on aromatase activities. We found that black tea polyphenols, TF-1, TF-2 and TF-3, significantly inhibited rat ovarian and human placental aromatase activities. In addition, using an in vivo model, these black tea polyphenols also inhibited the proliferation induced by 100 nM dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) in MCF-7 cells. Transfection of HER2/neu in MCF-7 breast cancer cells appeared to be associated with an increased resistance of the cells to hormonal therapy. Interestingly, unlike the selective oestrogen receptor modulator (SERM) tamoxifen, black tea polyphenols had antiproliferation effects in breast cancer cells with hormonal resistance. The inhibitory effect of black tea polyphenols on hormone-resistant breast cancer cells suppressed the basal receptor tyrosine phosphorylation in HER2/neu-overexpressing MCF-7 cells. These findings suggest the use of black tea polyphenols may be beneficial in the chemoprevention of hormone-dependent breast tumours and represent a possible remedy to overcome hormonal resistance of hormoneindependent breast tumours.

blackteatheaflavins.jpg
 

Mauritio

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@Mauritio
Have you looked into black tea theaflavins?
It seems they inhibit aromatase twice as much as green tea.
But they also reduce circulating DHT somewhat.

From: sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ejca.2004.06.018

Black tea polyphenol theaflavins inhibit aromatase activity and attenuate tamoxifen resistance in HER2/neu-transfected human breast cancer cells through tyrosine kinase suppression



View attachment 28765
No, I havent . Apparently it also lowers iron in the blood and is used for hair growth /as an anti-balding agent.

Do you know how significant the anti-DHT effect is (in vivo) ?
 
Last edited:

miquelangeles

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No, I havent . Apparently it also lowers iron in the blood and is used for hair growth /as an anti-balding agent.

Do you know how significant the anti-DHT effect is (in vivo) ?

In mice it seems quite significant.

From: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2683253/

Mice treated with black tea tended to have a greater serum testosterone concentration (34.4%, P = 0.50) and had a 72% lower DHT concentration than controls (P < 0.05), suggesting that black tea may contain components that inhibit the activity of 5α-reductase, an enzyme that converts testosterone to the more bioactive DHT. Green tea tended to increase serum testosterone and DHT levels by 73.8% (P = 0.14) and 194% (P = 0.076), respectively. The combination of soy phytochemicals and green tea reduced serum levels of DHT (P < 0.05).

Black tea increased T by 34% and lowered DHT by 72%.
Interesting that green tea increased both T and DHT by 73% and 194% respectively.
Not sure if this can be replicated in humans.

Columns with two + shows the combined effect of soy phytochemicals with green/black tea, and the others show green or black tea alone.

Screenshot_736.jpg
 

Aladdin

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I think sauteeing is good enough. Especially if it is done with coconut oil or butter. Hydrazine should not be too much of a concern to a person with good metabolism producing H2O2 as it neutralizes hydrazine pretty easily. The fluroride in tap water is a bigger concern, at least to me. I wonder if perchlorate, which is also added to tap water in some counties also may deactivate hydrazine...
Hydrazine • Chemistry • Department of Biology, Chemistry, Pharmacy
"...With hydrogen peroxide hydrazine is instantaneously oxidised to nitrogen and water. The reaction will be violent if the mixture is not sufficiently diluted."

Based on this wouldn't be a good strategy to chop and soak the mushrooms in hydrogen peroxide and then you'll be able to cook them for a much shorter period than the recommended 1-3 hours?
 

Gustav3Y

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Not sure if this can be replicated in humans.
It's great we can test on them and have some sort of isolated gained knowledge and we can make an idea about something.

I know Haidut always makes a correspondence for mass like humans would be machines (if the rat need x amount per so much body weight the human needs x amount per body weight), but we know from real life, things do not work like that, otherwise would see everyone just do it and would work.

Rats problems:
They are all of the same breed inherently with serious genetic strengths, humans are highly diverse in this sense , the rats are not under stress, humans are exposed to a major amount of toxins, pathogens and poisons, and we don't know what happens to the rats on a long term basis if that would be carried on forever.
 

miquelangeles

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@Mauritio
Have you looked into black tea theaflavins?
It seems they inhibit aromatase twice as much as green tea.
But they also reduce circulating DHT somewhat.

From: sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ejca.2004.06.018

Black tea polyphenol theaflavins inhibit aromatase activity and attenuate tamoxifen resistance in HER2/neu-transfected human breast cancer cells through tyrosine kinase suppression



View attachment 28765
Q: If you had all the herbs in the world at your disposal at the highest and purest quality - what herbs would you most often use to make a tea?

RP: Black tea.
 

aniciete

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Probably, yes.
Sometimes when under stress or if I skip dinner, I also get nightmares or wake up between 3am - 5am with low glycogen.
A peaty glass of sugared milk quickly puts me back to sleep, but I noticed that too much of it causes me to sleep in, which I don't like.
Eventually I figured out the timing and amount of carbohydrate/calories at dinner in order to get the cortisol spike between 7am-8am.
350g may sound a lot but you know how they reduce to nothing almost, when cooked.
I boil them 3 to 4 hours, but chopped in a food processor and pressure cooked is probably better. I'm temporarily away from home and I haven't bothered to buy another pressure cooker.
They are amazing for gut transit. Never in my life did I have so satisfying BMs lol. The carrot salad never worked for me.
Are you still having a good experience with the mushrooms everyday? Ive eaten them the last two nights and have woken up euphoric in the morning.
 

miquelangeles

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Are you still having a good experience with the mushrooms everyday? Ive eaten them the last two nights and have woken up euphoric in the morning.
Yes, I actually bought some today. I always get the larger, mature ones after seeing the comparative studies.
But I take breaks from it because after a few days 5ar inhibition becomes noticeable so I'm doing it once or twice a week now.
If you are doing the carrot salad as well, also try to get the biggest ones you can find. It seems counter intuitive because young vegetables are usually better, but the fiber of mature carrots has the highest binding capacity.
I doubt the effects we feel from mushrooms are solely due to aromatase inhibition. They contain too many bioactives (nucleosides, nucleotides, beta glucans and other polysaccharides). Pressure cooking releases more beta glucans.
 

aniciete

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Yes, I actually bought some today. I always get the larger, mature ones after seeing the comparative studies.
But I take breaks from it because after a few days 5ar inhibition becomes noticeable so I'm doing it once or twice a week now.
If you are doing the carrot salad as well, also try to get the biggest ones you can find. It seems counter intuitive because young vegetables are usually better, but the fiber of mature carrots has the highest binding capacity.
I doubt the effects we feel from mushrooms are solely due to aromatase inhibition. They contain too many bioactives (nucleosides, nucleotides, beta glucans and other polysaccharides). Pressure cooking releases more beta glucans.
White mushrooms are a 5ar inhibitor?
 

miquelangeles

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White mushrooms are a 5ar inhibitor?
From doi.org/10.1002/cncr.29421:
WBM was also found to inhibit 5a-reductase, the enzyme that produces DHT from testosterone. The WBM extract inhibits both 5a-reductase 1 and 2 (Supporting Fig. 1). Although we did not detect changes in testosterone and DHT that were freely circulating, in tissues we cannot rule out inhibitory effects of WBM on 5a-reductase (and thus tissue production of DHT).

wbm-5ar.jpg
 
L

Lord Cola

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What are some of the main things causing such a big difference in the digestive response to WBM compared to carrots or bamboo shoots, does anyone know? It seems like some people who had issues like constipation with carrots do better on mushrooms.
 

miquelangeles

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What are some of the main things causing such a big difference in the digestive response to WBM compared to carrots or bamboo shoots, does anyone know? It seems like some people who had issues like constipation with carrots do better on mushrooms.
WBM are cooked and cooked foods are usually less irritating.
Carrots or bamboo shoots are largely inert fibers with some nutritional value and bacteriostatic action.
But well cooked WBM are pharmacologically active food with lots of bioactive compounds.
 

miquelangeles

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interesting. Hopefully its not too powerful, doesnt seem to be at least from this study :p

also, I just skimmed the thread, did anyone post studies showing WBM lowering blood Estradiol levels?

In the human trials on breast cancer patients WBM failed to lower blood estradiol levels but it prevented the postprandial rise in aromatase activity.
 

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