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K2 Causing Heart Palpitations

Discussion in 'Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs' started by bionicheart, Jul 29, 2017.

  1. bionicheart

    bionicheart Member

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    I've taken K2 (thorne research), just 1 drop on two separate occasions.
    Each time my heart rate went from 75 up to 110 and I had palpitations well into the day after taking it. I also got "air hungry" after each dose. I haven't been supplementing with anything else other than magnesium, nor changed my diet during doses.
    What could be causing this, has anyone else experienced this? I want to take it to prevent calcification and tartar build up.
    Thanks
     
  2. johnwester130

    johnwester130 Member

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    Interesting.

    Maybe take it with magnesium and taurine
     
  3. raypeatclips

    raypeatclips Member

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    Did you take it orally? Fat solubles can bother the gut and cause a variety of negative symptoms.
     
  4. Peatnik Boetry

    Peatnik Boetry Member

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    Are you taking any other supplements?

    I get this too. No idea why unfortunately. I think certain B vitamins may exacerbate it. Sometimes I'd get feelings of euphoria too.

    Same thing happens when I take Gonadin, even more pronounced than from K2. Sucks because K2 helped me more than any other supplement with my cognitive and fatigue issues.
     
  5. OP
    bionicheart

    bionicheart Member

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    No, I put it on my wrist :(
     
  6. raypeatclips

    raypeatclips Member

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    How much calcium do you get? Any vit A or D?
     
  7. OP
    bionicheart

    bionicheart Member

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    I probably get RDA 100% or more. I eat cheese, milk, OJ and ice cream. I failed to mentioned, I got palpitations taking Estroban, I was taking it for a week and started to notice them (taking just 4 drops transdermal) and they went away a couple days after my last dose. Also, I started supplementing with magnesium Calm with the calcium and vitamin D added. Probably not getting enough vitamin A though, since I have acne and retin-a is the only thing that helps... :/
     
  8. Waynish

    Waynish Member

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    I'm curious why you chose that username...
     
  9. OP
    bionicheart

    bionicheart Member

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    It was an old user name I used when I had an internal cardioverter defibrillator placed at the young age of 21... Due to an "idiopathic" episode of ventricular tachycardia 6 years ago. Never happened again, but my mom and aunt had one and heart transplants later, I'm trying to avoid that path... probably more than you wanted to know ;P
     
  10. Travis

    Travis Member

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    Probably the similarity of menaquinone (MK-4, K₂) with CoQ₁₀. Coenzyme Q₁₀ (ubiquinone) is very cardioactive and can cause heart palpitations and racing since it is intimately involved in the electron transport chain in the heart. A deficiency of CoQ₁₀ can actually cause heart failure.
    k2.png
    They have different tail lengths (from 4 to 10 isoprene units) but their heads are similar and they are both classified as benzoquinones.

    Additionally, vitamin K₂ is used in the electron transport chain in bacteria. Here are some quotes from the article entitled
    Vitamin K₂ in Electron Transport System: Are Enzymes Involved in Vitamin K₂ Biosynthesis Promising Drug Targets?

    Some life forms use both CoQ₁₀ and K₂ in the mitochondrial electron transport chain, and some even use K₂ only.

    Maybe you are low on CoQ₁₀?

    Vitamin K₁ probably will not do this because it has an entirely different tail. The CoQ₁₀-like isoprene tail on vitamin K₂ is actually made in the body, and the biosynthesis of K₂ from K₁ involves a "tail-switching" procedure.
     
  11. OP
    bionicheart

    bionicheart Member

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    Wow Travis, thanks for this! Would you suggest supplementing CoQ₁₀ for a couple of weeks then maybe try to add K2 back in..?
     
  12. Elderflower j58

    Elderflower j58 Member

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    Correct me if I'm wrong ,I'm sure I read that Ray Peat said vitamin k
    Could do the same (if not better) for the heart than CoQ10 ?
     
  13. Sucrates

    Sucrates Member

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    He's said K2 is better than CoQ10 for respiration IIRC.
     
  14. Travis

    Travis Member

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    Yeah. It would be interesting to know if CoQ₁₀ does the same thing at an equivalent dose (per mol).

    MK-4 is only half as heavy (444.648 g/mol) as coenzyme Q₁₀ (865.38 g/mol), so the equivalent dose would be about twice as much CoQ₁₀ by mass.

    Or you can take K₁, which will prevent calcification but is not cardioactive.
     
  15. mr.mag

    mr.mag Member

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    I've gotten palpitations from gonadin too - also tyro mix
     
  16. mr.mag

    mr.mag Member

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    I've gotten palpitations from gonadin too - also tyro mix
     
  17. Sucrates

    Sucrates Member

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    I emailed Ray about ectopic beats and he mentioned minerals, dairy and OJ. He also said vitamin D can help if it's low.
     
  18. Garry

    Garry New Member

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    Just a question on Mk4 since I because I just purchased some. CoQ10 will give me some palpitations. Is it an expected outcome of MK4 to give palpitations also? I ordered a 5 mg size pill.
     
  19. owtsgmi

    owtsgmi New Member

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    Just wanted to chime in that both COQ10 (ubiquinol) and the Thorne K2 drops give me heart palpitations as well. To the point where I thought I might have a heart attack - pretty scary. I searched for this about 2 years ago and found very little to suggest these two supplements would act like this. So, it's good to know that there is something to this, and it wasn't my imagination. I have been staying away from both of these supps, but always felt I should be taking them for heart protection.

    Travis - thanks for the tip on K1. I might try this next since it is not cardioactive. I also was curious if the "better" form of COQ10 (ubiquinone) might be have fewer side effects than the form I took before (ubiquinol). A vendor phrases it like this:
    "CoQ10 (ubiquinone) is a vital nutrient found in every living cell. It is an essential catalyst in the life process of all cells. Ubiquinol, on the other hand, is unstable with a poor shelf life. The benefits of taking CoQ10 are too numerous to list. "
     
  20. Travis

    Travis Member

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    Ubiquinol has two more electrons than ubiquinone, so it has a higher reducing (e⁻-donating) potential. It would be interesting to know if this makes a difference.
     
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