Jumpstarting The Circadian Rhythm

PeatThemAll

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During the last couple of months, I noticed that my metabolism doesn't rev up fully until 3PM (markers: mental clarity, body temperature, circulation). Digestion follows the same pattern. Evening meal can be a big one and I don't experience much of a downer. Same meal at lunch time or breakfast would give me a drowsy feeling for a while.

Hasn't always been this way. I've always been an early riser (naturally with sunrise), early to bed type, and used to be able to hit the ground running, mentally and physically (things going downhill from there). Now it seems it just takes forever for me to hit my peak.

Things that somewhat help: protein (animal) with some no-starch carbs. Aspirin. Noon-to-3PM sunlight (even through windows), the more exposed skin, the better.

Caffeine gives me a jolt, mentally, but not temperature-wise.

Have you found a way to bypass / reprogram this? The only tip that comes to mind is from DurianRider, his idea being that one should start the day with something around 1,000 calories. Which I currently am not doing.
 

Lecarpetron

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I have the same issue. I've tried Steve Richfield's dress like an Eskimo thing, hot baths in the morning, morning sun exposure, front loading any T3, and having a huge breakfast. The one that has helped me the most is eating a huge, salty breakfast with lots of protein.

I find that trying too hard to force morning/early PM temps up just jacks up stress hormones. Frustrating!
 

superhuman

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well the most important thing in the morning is to lower cortisol since thats when its at its highest. RP told me sugar is the most important thing for breakfast, then also aspirin and pregnenolone is great for lowering cortisol
 
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PeatThemAll

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well the most important thing in the morning is to lower cortisol since thats when its at its highest. RP told me sugar is the most important thing for breakfast, then also aspirin and pregnenolone is great for lowering cortisol

Thanks, fellow Peaters.

Interesting riddle, eh?

On the one hand, many diabetic groups indicate that one should either wait through the Dawn Phenomenon (basically burn what the liver's pumping out) or take protein asap (sends a stop signal to the liver). Protein also has that unique thermogenic oomph. Given that the first option is, IMO, met with lean tissue degradation rather than fat, taking in some protein is the safest of the two.

On the other hand, the above quote would make sense too. If glucose being sent to the tissues is the driver, eating some would accelerate the result.

So maybe a salty, sugary, protein-y breakfast followed by coffee + aspirin might do the job :)
 

superhuman

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Well you cant just eat protein to send a stop signal to the liver because it will do the opposite. It will lower blood sugar and increase cortisol and adrenaline even more to drain the liver for glucose or force it to catabolize fat or protein for fuel
 

Agent207

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Cortisol is important in the morning if you want to keep healthy circadiam rythm. Its not a wise idea to knock down it with lots of sugar after waking up, but better to just stabilize blood sugar with some quality slow digesting starch and more fats and protein. As long as the day goes on, you switch more towards carbs till dusk for a good night sleep. Thats the right cyrcadiam rythm.

Cortisol is a good hormone in its right amount and time. Lots of people suffer from too low cortisol in the morning, not the opposite. Thats why they seem to not funcion properly without morning caffeine dose, which is a very bad sign. Its not the caffeine that is bad, but its dependence for jump-starting the day OK.
 
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superhuman

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@Agent207 sure but its for waking up, when you are up you dont need it to drive your energy from there. You know this is a ray peat forum and when i give advice i give it based on RP teachings or what he has told me. What you are suggesting has no backup from ray peat. Slow digesting starch is the worst thing you can eat, that will feed endotoxins like crazy and will wreck your hormonal profile.

You dont switch towards carbs till dusk for a good night sleep, ideally you should burn carbs as your main energy source the whole time because thats what your brain and other systems require for optimal performance. Your muscles will burn fat when you rest.

Backup your statement that people suffer from too low cortisol in the morning, i dont think so. They just lack energy so they need to jack up adrenaline to get things moving, they do that with caffeine.
 

Agent207

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I can argue with a RP reader or self thinker. I can't argue with a RP "follower". Things are more complex that the mechanistic way of thinking of guiding everyone "cortisol bad, estrogen bad, serotonin bad... I don't know your situation but try to download them even further". Your a follower and see it that way, no problem. Im not. Cortisol is a NEEDED hormone; too much or too less and you have a problem. Not matter your energy levels, which are important too. Cortisol follow a circadiam rythm which is important to sustain.

The OP at least have the choice to read about more perspectives.
 

superhuman

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@Agent207 sure im no follower but i at least read what RP has to say because i know he is waaay smarter then me and most people out there in terms of nutrition.

When you talk about using sugar as fuel later during the day and eating slow digesting starch in the morning and all that you havent really grasped the concept of ray peat at all. This has to do with raising the metabolic rate and decreasing stress and that is super complex. To give recommendations that is the opposite of that does not makes sense no matter what you say. You can apply RP`s writings as you want, but you cant say you have formed an opinion based on that when its direct opposite of him.

Cortisol is a good hormone for what? its needed but its not something you should focus on its not something most people struggle with because its to low, its much more complex then that. Cortisol opposes alot of the positive hormones and also messes with nutrition partitioning when its to high and in general messes people up big time if its to high.

I dont care, i just have to critize you when you give some advice for people on this forum that is the opposite of what ray peat writes and you dont back it up with anything in terms of studies etc.

Cortisol follow a circadian rythm for sure, but you are control of that rythm. If your sleep is out of whack your cortisol will also be way out of whack as an example.
 

jyb

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Cortisol is important in the morning if you want to keep healthy circadiam rythm. Its not a wise idea to knock down it with lots of sugar after waking up, but better to just stabilize blood sugar with some quality slow digesting starch and more fats and protein. As long as the day goes on, you switch more towards carbs till dusk for a good night sleep. Thats the right cyrcadiam rythm.

Share your source about circadian and cortisol rhythms please. I've read reasons to have carbs later in the day before and it makes sense to me, but not in the context of circadian rhythm specifically.
 
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PeatThemAll

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Well you cant just eat protein to send a stop signal to the liver because it will do the opposite. It will lower blood sugar and increase cortisol and adrenaline even more to drain the liver for glucose or force it to catabolize fat or protein for fuel
Yup. It's kind of a mixed bag. Protein triggers both glucagon (catabolic) and insulin (anabolic) in a narrow time window. As you mentioned, catabolism will occur, and the corresponding insulin surge will drive the 'goods' back where needed (which explains in part why blood glucose doesn't rise that much - apparently - but a clamp/insulin test shows that this apparent little rise in BG doesn't come free). In any case, good point. Take some carbs in asap!
 

paymanz

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As some studies shown bromocriptine corrects circadian system in diabetics , when taking it in the morning , probably anything dopamnergic early in the day helps to reset the clock and turning on metabolism.

Sugar,protein,creatine,caffein,taurine,cocoa,saffron... Salt!


And maybe avoiding some of them or limiting some of them near the bed time??!
 
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I was really struggling with circadian rhythm issues too. And then I saw a news article about how meal timing can have a big affect on jet lag. It inspired me to try a glass of juice first thing in the morning. I put a glass of juice beside my bed before I go to sleep and then as soon as my eyes open I started drinking it. It really has helped. I love my morning juice now. Could be worth trying.
Here's article: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/313358.php
 

superhuman

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@PowertothePeatple thats cool. Did you notice any other benefits? in terms of lower stress which tend to be high in the morning, like cortisol, adrenaline etc. Did it do something in terms of temp and pulse?
 

Giraffe

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@PeatThemAll , what you describe is classic for people that don't eat a proper breakfast or none at all. It's not this way in the beginning, but at some point in time problems start, and they will get worse if you don't change things.

I also sometimes need a high protein meal to feel warm, but if I eat a high-protein meal for breakfast I always give easy digested carbs a headstart, so the protein is not used as an energy source.
 
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PeatThemAll

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@PeatThemAll , what you describe is classic for people that don't eat a proper breakfast or none at all. It's not this way in the beginning, but at some point in time problems start, and they will get worse if you don't change things.

I also sometimes need a high protein meal to feel warm, but if I eat a high-protein meal for breakfast I always give easy digested carbs a headstart, so the protein is not used as an energy source.

:thankyoublue
 
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@superhuman The reason I started the juice was that I just couldn't get myself going until 11am and then I noticed I couldn't sleep cause I would finally get energy in the evening. That is what finally made me think it was a circadian rhythm issue. Since drinking the juice I have kept a more normal schedule. In fact it worked so well that now I am waking up at 6ish ready to go. And I notice now I get tired and sleepy in the evenings. My energy just seems to be more normal ie active in the morning and then mellow in the evening.
I also noticed my temperatures have been the highest I have ever had. I am hypothyroid and so my temp has always been in the 97's and now they are consistently in the 98's. I think my mood has been better too.
The home I am currently living in is quite dark inside and I wonder if that may have contributed to a messed up internal clock. Light is also very important.
 

Agent207

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@Agent207, this is raypeatforum. If you give advice or express opinions that directly oppose Ray Peat's ideas, please make sure to mention that it does, so people that are new to Peat's ideas get the context.

Terms of Service and Rules | Ray Peat Forum

Sorry sir, sometimes I just read raypeat at the header of the site and forget what this forum is really about. Rules are rules. Thanks for recalling.
 

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