Josh Rubin Says Too Much Ice Cream Will Make You Fat

[Westside PUFAs]

From page 100 of his book, "The Metabolic Blueprint:"

"WARNING:
Too much ice cream consumption will lead to weight gain so please review the following considerations prior to incorporating into your diet.
1. Although ice cream offers a nice balance of macronutrients qualifying it as the perfect snack or dessert, ice cream and table sugar should be used very conservatively and are not meant for everybody.
2. Ice cream intake should never be a substitute for nutrient dense, live foods.
3. When purchasing ice cream it is important to consider the quality first and foremost. Avoid purchasing ice cream with emulsifiers and stabilizers such as: carageenan, guar gum, artificial flavorings, diethyl glycol, propylene glycol, glycerin, sodium carboxyl methylcellulose, monoglycerides...I think you get the point!
4. NOT EVERYONE IS METABOLICALLY CAPABLE OF EATING ICE CREAM/DAIRY. Most individuals are in a state of hyper-insulinemia or hypo-metabolic. In this state digestion is severely altered causing a decrease in digestive enzyme production among other dysfunctions."

http://themetabolicblueprint.com

 

[superhuman]

everything makes you fat in excess

 

[aquaman]

that's pretty obvious!

Most people turn to cheese, ice cream, full fat milk and get fat thinking it's "peat approved" !

 

[narouz]

Peat says similar things about fat in general.
With regard to weight gain
it seems clear that he mainly points his finger at starch--
an oft overlooked aspect of his nutritional views.
But he does say that eating too much fat can make one fat.
He has even said that about coconut oil
(though in some places he seems to say otherwise...so a bit confusing on that point).
He says he drinks 2% milk, as I recall,
because he says he doesn't want that full fat content,
seemingly for weight-gain reasons.

 

[haidut]

Peat says similar things about fat in general.
With regard to weight gain
it seems clear that he mainly points his finger at starch--
an oft overlooked aspect of his nutritional views.
But he does say that eating too much fat can make one fat.
He has even said that about coconut oil
(though in some places he seems to say otherwise...so a bit confusing on that point).
He says he drinks 2% milk, as I recall,
because he says he doesn't want that full fat content,
seemingly for weight-gain reasons.

I think the most important point is #4.

"...4. NOT EVERYONE IS METABOLICALLY CAPABLE OF EATING ICE CREAM/DAIRY. Most individuals are in a state of hyper-insulinemia or hypo-metabolic. In this state digestion is severely altered causing a decrease in digestive enzyme production among other dysfunctions.""
So, it makes even more sense to improve liver condition as much as possible in parallel with thyroid.

 

[narouz]

Peat says similar things about fat in general.
With regard to weight gain
it seems clear that he mainly points his finger at starch--
an oft overlooked aspect of his nutritional views.
But he does say that eating too much fat can make one fat.
He has even said that about coconut oil
(though in some places he seems to say otherwise...so a bit confusing on that point).
He says he drinks 2% milk, as I recall,
because he says he doesn't want that full fat content,
seemingly for weight-gain reasons.

I think the most important point is #4.

"...4. NOT EVERYONE IS METABOLICALLY CAPABLE OF EATING ICE CREAM/DAIRY. Most individuals are in a state of hyper-insulinemia or hypo-metabolic. In this state digestion is severely altered causing a decrease in digestive enzyme production among other dysfunctions.""
So, it makes even more sense to improve liver condition as much as possible in parallel with thyroid.

Yeah, haidut,
I've been enjoying the thread about improving liver condition.
Do you see those conditions you mention,
"hyper-insulinemia or hypo-metabolic," "decrease in digestive enzyme production,"
as being chiefly centered in the liver?
Or is it also--or even mainly--a problem with the digestive system, the gut...?

 

[messtafarian]

Honestly I don't think Peat cares whether people get fat. This is just not in his wheelhouse and anyone who starts eating Peat for weight loss is hugely misguided. Peat cares about hormonal health,mitochondrial function and the diseases of our time that are considered "incurable." Whether people get a belly from eating full fat ice cream is less important than whether they've improved their calcium intake.

He'd also probably say -- eat a good diet and optimize your thyroid function and you can eat ice cream all day a couple years from now.

 

[answersfound]

Honestly I don't think Peat cares whether people get fat. This is just not in his wheelhouse and anyone who starts eating Peat for weight loss is hugely misguided. Peat cares about hormonal health,mitochondrial function and the diseases of our time that are considered "incurable." Whether people get a belly from eating full fat ice cream is less important than whether they've improved their calcium intake.

He'd also probably say -- eat a good diet and optimize your thyroid function and you can eat ice cream all day a couple years from now.

:1

 

[Such_Saturation]

Honestly I don't think Peat cares whether people get fat. This is just not in his wheelhouse

But this Josh Rubin sure does, it seems

 

[answersfound]

I actually worked with Josh "Ruby Tuesday" Rubin and he was extremely strict about eating too much fat. Anytime more than 25% of my calories came from fat, he would would make a comment. So I can't imagine he eats a lot of fat himself. He's a former bodybuilder and still trains, so that in combination with a naturally stocky build and a high protein diet probably makes him look "fat".

 

[SQu]

Ice cream fixed a few migraines for me and I keep it in the freezer in case. I think it's the best thing if you can't eat enough due to nausea, migraine, food aversion that will just make things worse. or perhaps you can't digest anything. It's like medicine and I'd give it to someone who was very weak.

 

[messtafarian]

I don't think Josh Rubin is fat.He's just a normal looking dude with a certain body type. I don't trust supercut nutrition coaches; they're obviously spending way more time and energy than I could on their ab routines.

 

[narouz]

I surely agree that Peat's focus is not on weight loss.
But...if you listen to his interviews and read his articles
a pretty distinct picture does emerge
and it is not the picture that obesity is just as healthy as a more ideal weight.

I would also add that he is not especially politically correct
when it comes to talking about matters of weight.
On several occasions listening to the interviews
I kind of internally laughed and cringed a bit on his behalf
because he used the word "fat" to describe overweight people,
and, actually, I think he might've referred to females as being "fat,"
a true scandal in the world of political sensitivity.
I'm not 100% sure about the female and "fat" thing,
but I do think that's correct.

One instance in an interview of this phraseology
occurred when Peat described going to Russia.
He describes how he noted that in Russia, where it was hard to get milk,
that the people were all fat.
He might have said women.
Not 100% on that, but seems like he did refer to fat women.
I'm sorry!
And then he contrasts that with with Finland, where milk was available,
and the people (or women?) were all slim.
(He's retold this story in several places, so...might not have used that language consistently.)
And he definitely did not mean to say
that the Russian weights were as healthy as the Finland weights.

This area of PeatDom is not one I've aggressively studied and documented,
but as a peripheral interest I thought I'd note those Peat tics,
just because I'm an unredeemable provocateur.

Beyond that area of political correctness,
I do think Peat makes it pretty clear that being significantly overweight is not ideal
in terms of health.
I think I remember one time, in an interview I believe,
where Peat said something like,
"At some point the stored fat actually becomes anti-metabolic."

Peat has stated repeatedly that high starch consumption can lead to obesity,
and it is clear that he does not consider this at all a health benefit.

In his own writing and interviews,
Peat does not tip-toe around using the word "diet."
I feel a bit silly having to mention that,
but there are those who seem to believe the use of that word should be forbidden,
because it implies restriction and authoritarianism.
But Peat is simply using the word with one of its time-honored definitions in mind:
di·et
ˈdīət/
noun
1.
the kinds of food that a person, animal, or community habitually eats.
"a vegetarian diet"
synonyms: selection of food, food, foodstuffs; informalgrub, nosh

So--in addition to the perverse glee I experience in igniting firestorms of political correctness debate --
I do believe this is actually an important area in Peat World.
One of the most common charges leveled at a Peat diet
is that it frequently leads to weight gain.
And weight gain in people who don't want and may not need to gain weight.

Peat is assuredly not into "cutting" and "getting ripped,"
but at the same time I do think it is important not to get carried away
and to interpret Peat as believing that being too heavy (is that okay? ) is ideal.
Also, in interpreting Peat,
I think the most important thing is to be accurate and faithful to Peat,
rather than imposing our own notions of political correctness/political sensitivity onto his work
and thereby distorting it.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Well, it points to the fact that at the very least something is not being burned or used, does it not?

 

[narouz]

Well, it points to the fact that at the very least something is not being burned or used, does it not?

Hard for me to escape looking at it that way, Such.

 

[messtafarian]

Yes narouz but I think Peat views extra weight -- that is at the point of being "anti-metabolic" as a hormonal problem. If everything was working as it should and optimally then a person would not be fat.

But Peat just comes from a different planet from most people when it comes to this issue. I think in his landscape are people who have no appetite, can not eat a lot -- in a laboratory setting with animals this is a sign of sickness. In a laboratory setting, when animals *overeat* it is in response to a hormonal imbalance, or illness. So a healthy animal will eat and burn generally exactly enough food to keep itself in homeostasis within a fairly predictable ratio of fat to muscle. Bodyfat is really essential to health. Imagine if we could not store it.


Peat does not really approach human health any differently than he does rat health. We're not *people* to him when he discusses these things, we are animals with specific cellular and metabolic behaviors. So if a person is at the very top of a reasonable range -- say 20 pounds heavier than the rest of the cohort -- or 20 percent heavier, say...this is not really concerning and doesn't have much to do with overall health.

 

[Peatri Dish]

Dr. Peat worked with dieting women, iirc, in the 1970's. He has stated that some of these women were so metabolically deranged that they could gain weight on very few calories. He recommends building muscle and consuming low fat dairy for weight loss. And he clearly states that these people should not consume, for example, three tablespoons of coconut oil. I think Dr Peat cares about people getting fat. I don't think he ever recommends Haagen Daas for fat people. He tells us that fat cells produce estrogen.
Josh is gently reminding hoggers like me that it is ridiculous to think that you can huff copious amounts of ice cream and still maintain your weight if, for example, you just came from a low carb diet or something like that. I've still got 20 lbs to shed so I'll just have a couple tablespoons...

 

[messtafarian]

Yes but how "fat" were they?

Here's the thing -- beauty and bodysize standards really change from generation to generation and from culture to culture. We have an extremely wide range of body composition according to genetics. For example I am five foot ten and at the moment I weigh about 190 pounds. I'm much happier at 170 but I have never in my adult life ( including high school) weighed less than 155 pounds. In high school I settled around 163. Just yesterday I was at the grocery store observing two tiny hispanic women who probably eat just as much as I do. They were maybe five foot three or four and weighed maybe 130, each of them. My genetic background is Scandinavian and theirs is Central American and that is just how we are built.

Asian people carry a couple of extra percent points of bodyfat. I think I remember that the average bodyfat percentage for pacific islanders and others of Asian decent is 28 percent for adult women. But here in the US women are striving for 18 or 15 percent bodyfat and believe this is "healthy." At nine percent bodyfat, depending on genetics, an athletic woman will stop menstruating which is a clear indicator of metabolic derangement but all that cut muscularity to us looks healthy.

A penful of rats will all tend towards a mean body composition but they are *all from the same genetic strain.* They are called mus musculus and they were bred by monks. What is healthy in terms of bodymass for them is simply the homeostatic norm.

So what I am saying is that Peat has this scientific background and in that context "fat" is an extremely unscientific term. Homeostatic bodyfat is just a data point, and maybe not even the most important one.

 

[narouz]

Not sure how this fits into the puzzle--
maybe just a stray data point--
but in an interview with Peat
someone used the term "weight gain" in asking some question.

I remember Peat replying something close to this:
"What most people care about is not really gaining weight,
but if they stick out in the wrong places."

 

[messtafarian]

Yeah that's what I mean :). And actually if you do Peat translation on that statement, how fat "sticks out" is a hormonal and not a caloric question.