Jordan Peterson, Lord Of The Cucks

[Queequeg]

Please provide the primary source for this quote. Where exactely is Hitler supposed to have written or said this?

I gave the source. Manfred Barthel, "The Jesuits: History and Legend of the Society of Jesus (New York, 1984), It was based on the testimony of Walter Shellenberg ((Chief of the Nazi Sicherheitdienst (SD))

What follows is a similar quotation of Hitler taken from Edmond Paris’ book The Vatican Against Europe.
“I have learnt most of all from the Jesuit Order. …So far, there has been nothing more imposing on earth than the hierarchical organization of the [Roman] Catholic Church. A good part of that organization I have transported direct to my own [Nazi] party. …The Catholic Church must be held up as an example. …I will tell you a secret. I am founding an order [Ed. Note: the Nazi SS]. …In [Heinrich] Himmler [who would become head of the Nazi SS] I see our Ignatius de Loyola [Ed. Note: the founder of the Jesuit Order].” – Adolph Hitler

“The SS had been organized by [Heinrich] Himmler according to the principles of the Jesuit Order. The rules of service and spiritual exercises prescribed by Ignatius de Loyola [Ed. Note: the founder of the Jesuit Order] constituted a model which [Heinrich] Himmler strove carefully to copy. Absolute obedience was the supreme rule; every order had to be executed without comment.” Walter Shellenberg ((Chief of the Nazi Sicherheitdienst (SD))

 

[thomas00]

China operates on a market system, but they resemble free trade or laissez-faire capitalism in no sense of the word.

Same goes for every "capitalist" country.

If they aren't capitalist, then what are they? They are simply another state-capitalist nation to add to the all the rest. Just with bigger state involvement than others.

​

 

[Kartoffel]

I gave the source. Manfred Barthel, "The Jesuits: History and Legend of the Society of Jesus (New York, 1984), It was based on the testimony of Walter Shellenberg ((Chief of the Nazi Sicherheitdienst (SD))

What follows is a similar quotation of Hitler taken from Edmond Paris’ book The Vatican Against Europe.
“I have learnt most of all from the Jesuit Order. …So far, there has been nothing more imposing on earth than the hierarchical organization of the [Roman] Catholic Church. A good part of that organization I have transported direct to my own [Nazi] party. …The Catholic Church must be held up as an example. …I will tell you a secret. I am founding an order [Ed. Note: the Nazi SS]. …In [Heinrich] Himmler [who would become head of the Nazi SS] I see our Ignatius de Loyola [Ed. Note: the founder of the Jesuit Order].” – Adolph Hitler

“The SS had been organized by [Heinrich] Himmler according to the principles of the Jesuit Order. The rules of service and spiritual exercises prescribed by Ignatius de Loyola [Ed. Note: the founder of the Jesuit Order] constituted a model which [Heinrich] Himmler strove carefully to copy. Absolute obedience was the supreme rule; every order had to be executed without comment.” Walter Shellenberg ((Chief of the Nazi Sicherheitdienst (SD))

That's not a primary source, just someone claiming Hitler supposedly said something. I therefore suppose that this is simply a made up quote, and I am very sure Hitler never said anything like this. If this was a substantiated source it would provide a date and place like - Hitler, 1936, on the Reichsparteitag, or -Hitler Mein Kampf, p. 219, or - Hitler, 1942, in a recorded conversation with Mannerheim.

 

[Queequeg]

That's not a primary source, just someone claiming Hitler supposedly said something. I therefore suppose that this is simply a made up quote, and I am very sure Hitler never said anything like this. If this was a substantiated source it would provide a date and place like - Hitler, 1936, on the Reichsparteitag, or -Hitler Mein Kampf p. 219, or Hitler, 1942, in a recorded conversation with Mannerheim.

So check the sources. That is how historical research works. How it doesnt work is saying I dont believe it because I dont want to, and Im not going to look so I can continue believing what I want to.

edit: Ill save you a step
https://elijah1757.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/the-vatican-against-europe-by-edmond-paris.pdf

its on page 252

 

[thomas00]

Jesuit conspiracy theories (and all conspiracy theories) serve the interests of the people running the show. How much energy went into the 9/11 'truther' stuff while the government covered up documents in full view then went to war?

I don't see the relevance in whether the ruling class are members of religious cults. Would Iraq have somehow been worse if Bush was a jesuit? Government is a system that selects exclusively for psychopathic personalities. If a religion didn't exist they'd still get plenty of applicants.

 

[Kartoffel]

So check the sources. That is how historical research works. How it doesnt work is saying I dont believe it because I dont want to, and Im not going to look so I can continue believing what I want to.

Apparently, you and the author you cited don't understand the way historical research works. It is not my job as the reader to somehow find out whether your quote is real, and where it's coming from. If an undergraduate puts a quote in a term paper and just writes Adolf Hitler as a source, he will fail his assignment, so I think it's not too much to ask to provide a correct citation.

 

[Queequeg]

Apparently, you and the author you cited don't understand the way historical research works. It is not my job as the reader to somehow find out whether your source is real and where it's coming from. If an undergraduate puts a quote in a term paper and just writes Adolf Hitler as a source, he will fail his assignment, so I think it's not too much to ask to provide a correct citation.

are you blind? I gave you two citations and the actual pdf of one of them. and yes the reader is expected to look up each citation and check it for himself. That is what they are there for.

 

[DaveFoster]

Same goes for every "capitalist" country.

If they aren't capitalist, then what are they? They are simply another state-capitalist nation to add to the all the rest. Just with bigger state involvement than others.

​

It's a semantic question. You're right that all economies are planned to some degree.

 

[Kartoffel]

are you blind? I gave you two citations and the actual pdf of one of them. and yes the reader is expected to look up each citation and check it for himself. That is what they are there for.

I knew it You left this bit out:
Herman Rauschning tells us:" 'I learnt most of all from the Jesuit Order', Hitler told me.
So, this is not a quote made by Hitler, it's someone claiming that Hitler once told him something. Just the kind of source that bull**** conspiracy authors like this always use. You are aware of the fact that multiple historians have demonstrated that Rauschning made up most of the "conversations" he had with Hitler?

 

[Atman]

Queequeg is right guys. The jesuits always put jews in positions of power to incite antisemitism.
They even make sure that jews are overrepresented over 1000% in almost all elite US universities to make it look as if jews are practicing heavy nepotism. Don't let them trick you!

 

[johnsmith]

Pretty shill-level, Queequeg. So don't blame one group, but blame another?

The Jesuits are a military order of priests created explicitly to return the entire world to the temporal power of the Papacy. The Jews are just a people who share a similar religion. See the difference?

Queequeg, do you have a dog in this fight? They're both just groups of people.

 

[thomas00]

Pretty sure those places run on academic performance.

'the jesuits are behind it all' is.....

 

[Queequeg]

I knew it You left this bit out:
Herman Rauschning tells us:" 'I learnt most of all from the Jesuit Order', Hitler told me.
So, this is not a quote made by Hitler, it's someone claiming that Hitler once told him something. Just the kind of source that bull**** conspiracy authors like this always use. You are aware of the fact that multiple historians have demonstrated that Rauschning made up most of the "conversations" he had with Hitler?

I am aware that you may think it's a fact but that doesn't make it so. Not surprisingly you cry out for original sources yet have not provided any citations to back up anything you have claimed.

Also it's not just quotes by Rauschning but by many many others who were eye witnesses to history. This isnt surprising to anyone remotely aware of the history of the Vatican. Why dont you read the book I provided and then you may have a better idea of what you are talking about. Edmund Paris is a very well respected Roman Catholic historian

 

[Queequeg]

Queequeg, do you have a dog in this fight? They're both just groups of people.

No I just like discussing history. I too used to think it was the Jews but after just a small amount of research beyond the usual "it's the Jews" Youtube videos I realized just how ridiculous that belief is.

 

[DaveFoster]

I gave the source. Manfred Barthel, "The Jesuits: History and Legend of the Society of Jesus (New York, 1984), It was based on the testimony of Walter Shellenberg ((Chief of the Nazi Sicherheitdienst (SD))

What follows is a similar quotation of Hitler taken from Edmond Paris’ book The Vatican Against Europe.
“I have learnt most of all from the Jesuit Order. …So far, there has been nothing more imposing on earth than the hierarchical organization of the [Roman] Catholic Church. A good part of that organization I have transported direct to my own [Nazi] party. …The Catholic Church must be held up as an example. …I will tell you a secret. I am founding an order [Ed. Note: the Nazi SS]. …In [Heinrich] Himmler [who would become head of the Nazi SS] I see our Ignatius de Loyola [Ed. Note: the founder of the Jesuit Order].” – Adolph Hitler

“The SS had been organized by [Heinrich] Himmler according to the principles of the Jesuit Order. The rules of service and spiritual exercises prescribed by Ignatius de Loyola [Ed. Note: the founder of the Jesuit Order] constituted a model which [Heinrich] Himmler strove carefully to copy. Absolute obedience was the supreme rule; every order had to be executed without comment.” Walter Shellenberg ((Chief of the Nazi Sicherheitdienst (SD))

Hitler modeled the Third Reich after the Holy Roman Empire, but the Hapsburgs never planned to install Hitler. Hitler's occult and esoteric interests incorporated elements from Hinduism, such as the swatstika as a symbol for the "unconquerable," but Hindu gurus did not plant him in his position. The U.S. government adopts many symbols and imagery from the Roman Republic and Empire, but that has no insinuation of direct connection between the leadership of the two powers. Hitler respected the Teutonic Order and Catholic Church because both represented unwavering moral institutions that resisted modernity, so it's no surprise that Hitler liked the Jesuit Order.

 

[Queequeg]

Hitler modeled the Third Reich after the Holy Roman Empire, but the Hapsburgs never planned to install Hitler. Hitler's occult and esoteric interests incorporated elements from Hinduism, such as the swatstika as a symbol for the "unconquerable," but Hindu gurus did not plant him in his position. Hitler respected the Teutonic Order and Catholic Church because both represented unwavering moral institutions that resisted modernity, so it's no surprise that Hitler liked the Jesuit Order. The U.S. government adopts many symbols and imagery from the Roman Republic and Empire, but that has no insinuation of direct connection between the leadership of the two powers.

That is the disinfo surrounding Hitler to cover up the fact that he was a devout Catholic and died as a Crusader for the Church. The World Wars were just cover for an inquisition against Jews, Protestant Prussians, and Russian Orthodox.

but dont just take my word for it
"Adolf Hitler, son of the Catholic Church, died while defending Christianity. It is therefore understandable that words cannot be found to lament over his death, when so many were found to exalt his life. Over his mortal remains stands his victorious moral figure. With the palm of the martyr, God gives Hitler the laurels of Victory". -Spanish dictator (Francisco Franco, Knight of the Order of Christ) published on the 3rd of May 1945, the day of Hitler's death. ("Reforme", 21st of July 1945.)

 

[DaveFoster]

That is the disinfo surrounding Hitler to cover up the fact that he was a devout Catholic and died as a Crusader for the Church. The World Wars were just cover for an inquisition against Jews, Protestant Prussians, and Russian Orthodox.

but dont just take my word for it
"Adolf Hitler, son of the Catholic Church, died while defending Christianity. It is therefore understandable that words cannot be found to lament over his death, when so many were found to exalt his life. Over his mortal remains stands his victorious moral figure. With the palm of the martyr, God gives Hitler the laurels of Victory". -Spanish dictator (Francisco Franco, Knight of the Order of Christ) published on the 3rd of May 1945, the day of Hitler's death. ("Reforme", 21st of July 1945.)

I won't take your word for it, and I won't take that Spanish dictator's liturgy toward Hitler as evidence either. "Franco, while fascist dictator of a country with a 99% Catholic population, praises another fascist dictator's Christian piety." Why don't you instead cite what Hitler actually said instead of relying on interpretations from a third-party? Here's a direct quote of Hitler chronicled by Rauschning, the author that you just cited.

"Whether it is the Old Testament or the New, or simply the sayings of Jesus according to Houston Stewart Chamberlain, it is all the same Jewish swindle. It will not make us free. A German Church, a German Christianity, is a distortion. One is either a German or a Christian. You cannot be both. You can throw the epileptic Paul out of Christianity -- others have done so before us. You can make Christ into a noble human being, and deny his divinity and his rôle as a saviour. People have been doing it for centuries. I believe there are such Christians today in England and America -- Unitarians, they call themselves, or something like that. It is no use. You cannot get rid of the mentality behind it. We do not want people to keep one eye on life in the hereafter. We need free men, who feel and know that God is in themselves. [23]" — Hitler Speaks: A Series Of Political Conversations With Adolf Hitler On His Real Aims by Hermann Rauschning, Chapter 4​

 

[Queequeg]

I won't take your word for it, and I won't take that Spanish dictator's liturgy toward Hitler as evidence either. "Franco, while fascist dictator of a country with a 99% Catholic population, praises another fascist dictator's Christian piety." Why don't you instead cite what Hitler actually said instead of relying on interpretations from a third-party? Here's a direct quote of Hitler chronicled by Rauschning, the author that you just cited.

"Whether it is the Old Testament or the New, or simply the sayings of Jesus according to Houston Stewart Chamberlain, it is all the same Jewish swindle. It will not make us free. A German Church, a German Christianity, is a distortion. One is either a German or a Christian. You cannot be both. You can throw the epileptic Paul out of Christianity -- others have done so before us. You can make Christ into a noble human being, and deny his divinity and his rôle as a saviour. People have been doing it for centuries. I believe there are such Christians today in England and America -- Unitarians, they call themselves, or something like that. It is no use. You cannot get rid of the mentality behind it. We do not want people to keep one eye on life in the hereafter. We need free men, who feel and know that God is in themselves. [23]" — Hitler Speaks: A Series Of Political Conversations With Adolf Hitler On His Real Aims by Hermann Rauschning, Chapter 4​

ok here is from the lips of the fuehrer himself.
" We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity … in fact our movement is Christian. We are filled with a desire for Catholics and Protestants to discover one another in the deep distress of our own people. Speech in Passau 27 October 1928 Bundesarchiv Berlin-Zehlendorf; from Richard Steigmann-Gall (2003). Holy Reich: Nazi conceptions of Christianity, 1919-1945. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. pp. 60-61.

"And now Staatspräsident Bolz says that Christianity and the Catholic faith are threatened by us. And to that charge I can answer: In the first place it is Christians and not international atheists who now stand at the head of Germany. I do not merely talk of Christianity, no, I also profess that I will never ally myself with the parties which destroy Christianity. Speech delivered at Stuttgart 15 February 1933; from Norman H. Baynes, ed. (1969). The Speeches of Adolf Hitler: April 1922-August 1939. 1. New York: Howard Fertig. p. 240.

"The Catholic Church considered the Jews pestilent for fifteen hundred years, put them in ghettos, etc, because it recognized the Jews for what they were. [...] I recognize the representatives of this race as pestilent for the state and for the church and perhaps I am thereby doing Christianity a great service by pushing them out of schools and public functions." Speech 26 April 1933 in a reception for Catholic Bishop Berning; from Richard Steigmann-Gall (2003). Holy Reich: Nazi conceptions of Christianity, 1919-1945. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. p. 117-118.

"The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgement of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church. This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism is hostile to religion is a lie. Letter to the Nazi Party, 22 July 1933; John Cornwell (2008). Hitler's Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII. New York: Penguin, p. 118.

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." Adolf Hitler in 1941 to General Gerhard Engel. In John Toland (1992). Adolf Hitler. New York: Anchor Publishing, p. 507.

and as for his supposed belief in Occultism

"We will not allow mystically-minded occult folk with a passion for exploring the secrets of the world beyond to steal into our Movement. Such folk are not National Socialists, but something else – in any case, something which has nothing to do with us. At the head of our program there stand no secret surmisings but clear-cut perception and straightforward profession of belief. But since we set as the central point of this perception and of this profession of belief the maintenance and hence the security for the future of a being formed by God, we thus serve the maintenance of a divine work and fulfill a divine will - not in the secret twilight of a new house of worship, but openly before the face of the Lord."Speech in Nuremberg on 6 September 1938. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922 – August 1939, Volume 1 Edited by Norman Hepburn Baynes. University of Michigan Press, p. 396.

 

[DaveFoster]

Ironic that you too quote Rauschning. Based on Hitlers direct quotes in his speeches maybe kartoffel had a point and Rauschning did make up a lot of what he claimed Hitler said.

ok here is from the lips of the fuhrer himself.
1. " We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity … in fact our movement is Christian. We are filled with a desire for Catholics and Protestants to discover one another in the deep distress of our own people. Speech in Passau 27 October 1928 Bundesarchiv Berlin-Zehlendorf; from Richard Steigmann-Gall (2003). Holy Reich: Nazi conceptions of Christianity, 1919-1945. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. pp. 60-61.

2. "And now Staatspräsident Bolz says that Christianity and the Catholic faith are threatened by us. And to that charge I can answer: In the first place it is Christians and not international atheists who now stand at the head of Germany. I do not merely talk of Christianity, no, I also profess that I will never ally myself with the parties which destroy Christianity. Speech delivered at Stuttgart 15 February 1933; from Norman H. Baynes, ed. (1969). The Speeches of Adolf Hitler: April 1922-August 1939. 1. New York: Howard Fertig. p. 240.

3. "The Catholic Church considered the Jews pestilent for fifteen hundred years, put them in ghettos, etc, because it recognized the Jews for what they were. [...] I recognize the representatives of this race as pestilent for the state and for the church and perhaps I am thereby doing Christianity a great service by pushing them out of schools and public functions." Speech 26 April 1933 in a reception for Catholic Bishop Berning; from Richard Steigmann-Gall (2003). Holy Reich: Nazi conceptions of Christianity, 1919-1945. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. p. 117-118.

4. "The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgement of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church. This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism is hostile to religion is a lie. Letter to the Nazi Party, 22 July 1933; John Cornwell (2008). Hitler's Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII. New York: Penguin, p. 118.

5. "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." Adolf Hitler in 1941 to General Gerhard Engel. In John Toland (1992). Adolf Hitler. New York: Anchor Publishing, p. 507.

and as for his supposed belief in Occultism

6. "We will not allow mystically-minded occult folk with a passion for exploring the secrets of the world beyond to steal into our Movement. Such folk are not National Socialists, but something else – in any case, something which has nothing to do with us. At the head of our program there stand no secret surmisings but clear-cut perception and straightforward profession of belief. But since we set as the central point of this perception and of this profession of belief the maintenance and hence the security for the future of a being formed by God, we thus serve the maintenance of a divine work and fulfill a divine will - not in the secret twilight of a new house of worship, but openly before the face of the Lord."Speech in Nuremberg on 6 September 1938. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922 – August 1939, Volume 1 Edited by Norman Hepburn Baynes. University of Michigan Press, p. 396.

For the first point, "our movement is Christian" refers to the Nazi movement and its Christian component in opposition to Judaism, atheism and Freemasonry. Hitler has said that the Church acts as a conservative foundation for the state. He does not speak of himself.

For point two, Staatspräsident Bolz believes Hitler to be a threat to the Church, and Hitler refutes this and says that Germany now has Christian leaders. He never says that he's Christian.

The third quote states that Hitler's actions resembles those desired by the Church, but not that he serves the Church. The Church hated Jews, as did Hitler. Two people like ice cream; they're not the same people.

Similarly, point four says that the Nazis had no staunch opposition to the Church or, more broadly, religion. Again, no explicit statement on Hitler's religious affiliation.

Only the fifth point explicitly states Hitler's Catholic allegiance. There you have it. Either that source remains either false or out of context, or alternatively, Rauschning lies.

I did find this, however, regarding Hitler's "table talk:" Excerpts from "Hitler's Table Talk"

It's certainly probable that Hitler had a public image in one particular direction and expressed his own personal beliefs in private, which appears to be the case from testimonies of private conversations with the Fuhrer.

 

[superhuman]

just **** off