Jordan Peterson In Rehab

CLASH

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@boris
I think PUFA in the tissues, due to thier hydrophilic nature cause water retention. In conjunction with the storage of starches in the muscles and also tissues (which brings water with it) I think the body developes this bloated water logged look. I see it alot in the gym.
 

boris

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Wow thanks @CLASH

Is this what persorption causes? Storage of starches in muscles and tissues?
 

CLASH

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@boris
Persoprtion is a bit different. Persorption is the actual dry starch granules pushing through the intestinal epithelium. Persoprtion doesnt occur with boiled starches.

When glucose is stored in the musculature and other body tissues, it is stored in branched form as glycogen. Glycogen is essentially "animal starch". When glycogen is formed and stored it carries some water with it. From studies I have seen, starch does a slightly better job of refilling muscle glycogen than sugars. Sugars seem to do a slightly better job of filling liver glycogen.

In my experience starch makes my muscle much more full than sugars do from fruits and juice. No matter how much carbs I eat from fruit and juice I cant seem to get a full look to my musculature. I also don't hold much water in my body if i subsist mainly on sugars from fruit and juice. My muscle tone would be considered "dry" in appearance on my current fruit and juice diet, think lean and dense in appearance as opposed to "full".

From what I have read the bloating of the cell with water is a primordial signal for the cell to divide. Considering that PUFA is hydrophilic and attracts water to the cell, I think this is why it induces growth and division and eventually cancer in the Peat context (PUFA's also have other negative effects). I think @haidut has discussed this specific effect before, not sure which thread tho.
 

boris

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@CLASH Very interesting thanks for going into detail with that. I didn't know about starches affinity to be stored in muscle over sugar.

Makes me wonder ... A cat in the wild would hunt an animal and immediately eat it with glycogen stores intact. I feed my cats raw meat, it would make sense to add a little sugar to make up for the lost glycogen of days old meat right?
 

CLASH

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@boris
I'm not sure. My guess would be probably not. Cats are pretty good at converting amino acids into sugars via gluconeogensis in the liver, so I dont think any extra glycogen would make that much difference for them. Also, I think refined sugars in the cats gut could cause bacterial issues for them in the long run. Maybe some organ meats periodically would be helpful.
 

boris

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@CLASH thank you for your input. My other thought was maybe Peterson's carnivore diet would be healthier if he ate fresh game like our ancestors. But I guess it wouldn't have nearly enough glycogen to prevent hypoglycemia.

My cats, I noticed they are always hungry even after feeding, but they also put on weight fast if fed freely for a long time. Maybe it's the effect of stored PUFA? They had lots of chicken and turkey with skin in the past.
 

Blossom

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@boris
I'm not sure. My guess would be probably not. Cats are pretty good at converting amino acids into sugars via gluconeogensis in the liver, so I dont think any extra glycogen would make that much difference for them. Also, I think refined sugars in the cats gut could cause bacterial issues for them in the long run. Maybe some organ meats periodically would be helpful.
It’s true. Cats make all the glucose they need from protein.
 

CLASH

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@boris
The petersons seem to have bacterial issues in thier intestines. Rheumatoid arthritis, which is what Jordan's daughter has, has been closely linked with a bacterial infection in the gut. Depression and anxiety, which is what Jordan has, is also closely linked with bacterial populations in the gut. The success of thier diet, is most likely due to the fact that they aren't feeding any bacteria in thier colon. The meat doesnt induce hypoglycemia, becuase cortisol is elevated to raise the blood sugar via gluconeogenesis chronically. The issue with the diet is the increased cortisol, adrenaline, iron, decreased androgens, decreased progesterone and decreased thyroid function; all are symptoms of lack of adequate macros and micro nutrients. They have merely gotten rid of thier symptoms by avoiding colonic fermentation for the most part, hence the issues when they reintroduce foods, like Jordan saying he felt terrible after having greens or apple cider vinegar or something along those lines.

Perhaps your cats would be less hungry and lose some weight if you fed them meat with a little extra fat in the form of tallow or butter. Many carnivorous animals primarily focus on the fatty tissue and the organs when they hunt, often leaving the muscle meats for the scavengers afterwards. Feeding a carnivore straight protein, is akin, atleast in my mind, to feeding a human skim milk or lean meat and sugar; theyre going to be pretty hungry often because the food digests so fast (hence all the reports on this forum of people trying to eat super low fat diets with no starch and feeling like they need to eat every hour or thier adrenaline spikes and they get sweaty, elevated pulse, anxiety, cold hands/ feet etc).
 

boris

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@CLASH unfortunately I know about the stress of carnivore diet from first hand :D. It's some time ago, but now I remember only in the very end I had extreme hypo symptoms, that's when I researched and stumbled upon peat. Also 1 bowel movement per week. I don't think I have to say more.

Actually my cats get about 10-30% saturated fat from beef or lamb, I mix heart, stomach and muscle meat, some liver, eggshell calcium or small bones to balance phosphorus, gelatin or bone broth, small amount of blood powder, Taurine, B vitamins and some vitamin E (very little as per recommendation of raw feeding guidelines 2 drops per kilo of meat). Too much fat they actually reject it fast when I make a batch with too fatty meat and prefer to wait that I prepare something else :D. But in the past it was very often pure chicken fat that I used. That's why I was worried that stored PUFA is the cause of the weight gain when I let them eat freely.

One of the cats gets straight coconut oil as a treat too. But the other doesn't like it.
 
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Kunstruct

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Jordan P. talked about males with high serotonin as being the confident strong type of males which you can identify by far. If I recall correctly it was in one if his recorded classes that is on youtube.
Not sure to say about that type of statement
 
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jb116

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Jordan P. talked about males with high serotonin as being the confident strong type of males which you can identify by far. If I recall correctly it was in one if his recorded classes that is on youtube.
Not sure to say about that type of statement
What I would say about that type of statement is he is a very confused man. Confounding humanistic aspects of life with what lobsters do is a huge, silly mistake. You can extrapolate the dominance hierarchy from them and overlay that on humans as a priority value and bingo, you conclude that serotonin must equal confidence, dominance, and success. It is near-sighted at best.
 

boris

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He talks about serotonin very often in a positive light. For example "if you don't eat a good breakfast you will be low in serotonin", stuff like that. Can you blame him? From wikipedia "It has a popular image as a contributor to feelings of well-being and happiness"
 

Tenacity

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The lobster thing is interesting. Seems he confuses aggression for confidence.
 

lampofred

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Jordan P. talked about males with high serotonin as being the confident strong type of males which you can identify by far. If I recall correctly it was in one if his recorded classes that is on youtube.
Not sure to say about that type of statement

I think he thinks that serotonin gives the effects that GABA actually gives. Calm, detached, powerful.

Both are inhibitory neurotransmitters so maybe it's easy to confuse the two. But serotonin is lowering agitation by basically killing you, whereas GABA/maybe glycine induce a true calmness.

Whereas dopamine is more emotional and artsy and less inhibitory.
 

Kunstruct

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He talks about serotonin very often in a positive light. For example "if you don't eat a good breakfast you will be low in serotonin", stuff like that. Can you blame him? From wikipedia "It has a popular image as a contributor to feelings of well-being and happiness"

I was not aware of this one with the breakfast.

The strange thing is for a well studied man who constantly talks about the studies he read to not go a bit deeper in how exactly serotonin works and how it is correlated to hormones, rather than relate to shallow info like "serotonin is happiness".

Considering that, could we say that he is so confident that appears to know more than he knows? I ask that because confidence seems a topic he likes to talk about and associates serotonin with that. I mean I think you gotta be really confident to talk about certain things in front of such large masses of people.
 
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Nestito

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Regarding benzos though, I have a question. Is it habitual use that leads to physical dependence an issue or is rare use on some really hard days also just as bad? They've saved me from some intense panic attacks.
 

Herbie

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The serotonin lobster theory doesn’t make sense coming from Jordan because he goes on about how the top of any field is dominated by men who are industrious and conscientious, basically high IQ and creativity plus work 120 hours a week.

In my opinion and experience, health and energy and low serotonin are required to achieve the top of the hierarchy in that sense.

Ps not sure about the dominating and destroying the human race type of dominance hierarchy through slavery and control.
 

Blossom

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Regarding benzos though, I have a question. Is it habitual use that leads to physical dependence an issue or is rare use on some really hard days also just as bad? They've saved me from some intense panic attacks.
While I don’t doubt that klonapin can be very addictive for some people. I personally did not have as much trouble getting off of it as I had with Valium. I did not take klonapin daily but I did use it intermittently for years. I took a very low dose of Valium daily for one month and felt myself becoming dependent on it. These meds must impact people differently although I’m not sure how you would determine beforehand which camp you’d fall into honestly. All the benzodiazepines carry a risk of addiction of course.
 

charlie

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"Take a lesson from Fleetwood Mac’s lead singer Stevie Nicks. She calls Klonopin a “horrible, dangerous drug” that is deadlier than coke. In case you didn’t know, Nicks was once hopelessly addicted to cocaine. Ironically, she was prescribed this medication from a psychiatrist who recommended that she use it to stay away from coke.

Nicks said Clonazepam made her feel as if “somebody opened up a door and pushed me into hell.” She also told Newsweek in 2011, “What started happening was that if I didn’t take it, my hands started to shake.” Thankfully, Nicks is now completely drug free."

Source of above quote
 

Frankdee20

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Don't be overly dramatic. I quit alprazolam (way worse withdrawal than clonazepam, i would like a reference for your claim of the opposite) from 3mg daily down to zero in 3 days. After hitting zero I was dizzy and kept vomiting for 3 days but it was certainly not impossible. I have felt worse from alcohol, but at least it does not continue for as long. Alprazolam is being phased out in the healthcare system over here due to the horrible withdrawal but clonazepam is commonly used.



That's because cocaine is not deadly while benzos can be.

I lost all respect for Jordan hearing he is not man enough to withdraw by himself.


Cocaine is most certainly deadly, while under the influence, it can speed the heart up quite a bit. The withdrawal from it (yes, it is mostly a mental depression, but still withdrawal) is not deadly. Benzo's can be deadly while ingesting too much, and from the withdrawal I always heard.
 

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