John McDougall, M.D. On Fruitarianism

[DaveFoster]

Note his fallacious arguments.

1) Most human populations have evolved eating starch based diets, therefore starch is optimal. (naturalistic fallacy)
2) Humans have evolved beyond fruit-eating primates. (appeal to novelty)
3) Starches can be preserved in cold climates, therefore they're better for nutrition. (red herring)

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Things they agree on:

"If you don't get enough sugar or starch, then you'll use protein for energy" -Ray Peat

"If you eat lots of butter or cream, it can make you fat" - Ray Peat

Ray Peat On Eating Starch Instead Of Sugar

Peat on the importance of your diet providing glucose and/or the mix with fructose, starch is glucose:

Ray Peat on the effects of diet devoid of sugar and general diet advice.

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[Westside PUFAs]

Postive Peat quotes on starch

Many people here will tell you about how they don't feel satisifed using fruit and lactose as their only sugar sources and that starch is the only source that works.

"Hasn’t there been in the past or is some kind of anti-cancer therapy in Europe where they juice potatoes? Did I read that somewhere?"-Patrick Timpone

"I haven’t heard of it, but it’s an amazing food."-RP

Kasra's Q & A With Peat On A Fruitarian Diet

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[Wagner83]

For me a no starch diet does not work but having no fructose in my meals leads to food coma / lethargy much more easily.

 

[Richiebogie]

McDougall argues that starch is special in that it can be freeze dried, but humans can store fruit - frozen or dried.

Certainly a box of oats is cheap and low weight and holds a lot of energy from fat, starch and protein... just add water and cook!

But dry figs are low weight and digest much more easily.

We can eat fruit raw but wheat, barley, rye, rice need to be processed and cooked first. Potatoes and sweet potatoes just need cooking.

Ripe fruit is colourful, aromatic and appetising. Grasses in the field are difficult to imagine as food.

It appears that grains are more of a technological wonder than anything humans instinctively desire.

Humans tend to copy one another, particularly our bad habits. We get attracted to things that are toxic for us. Starch is part of the modern human diet but is it the optimum for health?

Apes do eat some roots so potatoes are more recognizable as food. Bonobos share 98% of our DNA:

"The bonobo’s diet is largely vegetarian. Foraging in small groups, bonobos feast primarily on fruit, but they also eat leaves, flowers, bark, stems, roots, insect larvae, worms, crustaceans, honey, eggs, and soil. Occasionally they hunt small mammals like flying squirrels or duikers (small antelopes). At night, bonobos gather with their groups to nest, communicating with each other with high-pitched barking sounds."

 

[Westside PUFAs]

@Atalanta

 

[Travis]

I feel different when I eat cooked starch than raw starch. I think raw starch is fine, as long as it's hydrated—like in fruit or roots.

A bought a pumpkin from the Amish last week, and I finally ate it all. So I have recent experience (I also had two other squash types.) I feel more energetic on the raw starch than from the cooked.

Plaintains are more starchy than bananas, and breadfruit has a considerable amount. Even the bonobos would encounter it, and I think modern plant-breeding has selected fruit with a bit more free sugar and less starch than the more natural wild-types.

 

[Djukami]

A bought a pumpkin from the Amish last week, and I finally ate it all. So I have recent experience (I also had two other squash types.) I feel more energetic on the raw starch than from the cooked.

Wait, you mean raw pumpkin? I've always cooked it before eating. That's interesting.
How many grams of pumpkin and squash did you usually eat per meal? Because the other day I was thinking about going for them as a source of starch, but I've noticed that I literately have to eat kilos to get some calories comparing to potatoes, for instance.

 

[Braveheart]

I feel different when I eat cooked starch than raw starch. I think raw starch is fine, as long as it's hydrated—like in fruit or roots.

A bought a pumpkin from the Amish last week, and I finally ate it all. So I have recent experience (I also had two other squash types.) I feel more energetic on the raw starch than from the cooked.

Plaintains are more starchy than bananas, and breadfruit has a considerable amount. Even the bonobos would encounter it, and I think modern plant-breeding has selected fruit with a bit more free sugar and less starch than the more natural wild-types.

Travis, what's your feeling about plantain?...I have access to lots of it and often like it raw and ripe...used to fry in coconut oil w added sugar and cinnamon...delicious.

 

[Travis]

Wait, you mean raw pumpkin? I've always cooked it before eating. That's interesting.
How many grams of pumpkin and squash did you usually eat per meal? Because the other day I was thinking about going for them as a source of starch,

Not sure on the weight, but I ate three squashes in about a week. The "spaghetti" squash was okay raw. I have one of those julienne shredders that function as a peeler on the inverse, so I could make long and thin strands. I would eat it mixed-in with a raw salad finely-cut of such things as cabbage, peppers, zucchini, and tomatoes. I cut them all in long–thin strands and use chopstix. My salads are like interlocking vegetable noodles, much better than trying to impale blocky pieces with a fork—sequentially skewering individual pieces as does a girlscout with a spike-pole after litter, or like lampooning them as if . . . on a ******* whale-hunt or something.

You get the idea. It's obvious that I have some pent-up anger over the way in which most salads are cut.

The "butternut (I hate saying that word) squash" was okay raw, and certainly better than the pumpkin. I ate this with varying degrees of steaming, from raw to cooked. These squashes have a different fiber/starch-granule characteristics than potatoes, with much larger individual grainy particles. They never become as smooth, paste·y, and homogenous as can potatoes even when fully-cooked; they always have a grainier texture.

I ate the pumpkin seeds too. The pumpkin was physically the hardest squash, and the most bland and woody when raw.

So I did eat most of it steamed, to varying degrees. I think perhaps cooked starch gets absorbed quicker, further-up in the small intestine. An uncooked carrot, for instance, has starch granules—but these are more compact than in the cooked carrot. Starch granules swell when they're cooked in water, and even individual starch helix can become unwound. The only difference worth mentioning right now, between raw vs cooked squash, is probably the speed in absorption. But there's always the possibility that one type absorbs in a more whole-strand form while the other as more hydrolyzed glucose. This article below is a good read:

• Hancock, Robert D., and Bryon J. Tarbet. "The other double helix—the fascinating chemistry of starch." J. Chem. Educ 77.8 (2000): 988.

but I've noticed that I literately have to eat kilos to get some calories comparing to potatoes, for instance.

They do seem a bit less-dense, that's for sure. I think pumpkin probably has the lowest starch-density with BN the highest. I do realize there are other types I'm not considering; I have never even tried the "acorn squash" once.

Travis, what's your feeling about plantain?...I have access to lots of it and often like it raw and ripe...used to fry in coconut oil w added sugar and cinnamon...delicious.

I have actually bought those, but I don't like them raw. They look cool as #πρς! though, and I would sometimes end-up buying them just for that. They are super-cheap at the Asian stores where I would buy fruit such as durian, dragonfruit, jackfruit, lychees, and rambutan (ect). I have never tried one cooked, and I have no idea what they would even taste like that way. I am eating my fifth banana right now with coffee and I have to say that I prefer the high sugar content of the banana over the plantain. I do understand humans have screwed-up nature to a great extent, but I consider the transition of plaintain ⟶ banana through progressive generations of selective breeding to be one of humanity's greatest achievements (right behind supersonic jet travel.)*


*Just kidding. Bananas aren't behind supersonic flight, they are ahead of it!