John McDougall Diet? (starch Solution)

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Reaper242xx

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Certainly, I agree with you there. There's many different forms of vegan diets. I personally would never do it but I think a well planned fruitarian diet can work. Would have to supplement certain key nutrients, or just eat certain foods occasionally as supplements, like oysters or liver.
 

tara

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Also I'm very curious to know if any other Peatarians out here use to be former starch eaters, and if so what was your overall impression of the diet.
I think there was a self-selecting a survey here a couple of years ago showing a significant proportion (majority?) to be current starch eaters.

I also don't think you can judge a diet people have been eating for a small proportion of their life for their overall appearance of aging. You don't know how much of it comes from which phase of their life unless you've been alongside them across the phases and transitions.
 

theLaw

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I think there was a self-selecting a survey here a couple of years ago showing a significant proportion (majority?) to be current starch eaters.

I also don't think you can judge a diet people have been eating for a small proportion of their life for their overall appearance of aging. You don't know how much of it comes from which phase of their life unless you've been alongside them across the phases and transitions.

This would explain why so many members have ongoing health issues.

I'm not anti-starch, but when Peat writes:

For people with really sensitive intestines or bad bacteria, starch should be zero.

Makes me wonder how many are just re-injuring themselves through a viscous cycle of inflammation, not to mention the fat issue. The real problem is the lack of alternative food options as starch is so ubiquitous and cheap.

I used to be very critical of people's appearance in the health industry, but now I think you're right.........it's a bit more nuanced. Perhaps it's more effective to judge the macro, but not the micro.

Having said that, if Danny was bald he probably would have zero credibility.:D
 
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Makes me wonder how many are just re-injuring themselves through a viscous cycle of inflammation, not to mention the fat issue.

Or the many supplements/hormones they take. The "Peaty" supplements like thyroid and progesterone/pregnenolone have to be taken in precise amounts for the person and they have to be able to tolerate that specific brand and they also have to have the cofactors. Things like cascara sagrada aren't meant to be gulped like candy. Even aspirin has to be taken correctly.
 

Wagner83

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I'm not anti-starch, but when Peat writes:

For people with really sensitive intestines or bad bacteria, starch should be zero.

Makes me wonder how many are just re-injuring themselves through a viscous cycle of inflammation, not to mention the fat issue. The real problem is the lack of alternative food options as starch is so ubiquitous and cheap.
I tried to quit starch and ended up with pretty frightening issues I had not experienced before and which went away when I resumed eating starch. Raypeatclips and Eire24 reported feeling like crap without starch and improved their health by eating it. Metabolic Advantage / Fat Free / Foods / Athlete
To Haidut : What Do You Usually Eat In A Day?
 

theLaw

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lexis

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Sri Lankans are known to be big eaters of starch.

This is one of their starchy breakfast food.

 

RobertJM

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I personally think that Peat may be correct to criticise starch, but you also can't ignore its apparent safety in certain cultures that have been studied.

It just comes down to a quality of life thing for me, personally. Without starch I feel amazing. But man is it that stuff addictive. I have to be militant to keep it away. Every day I am surrounded by it, offered it (sometimes in very socially manipulative ways). The best way to eradicate its addictiveness is to only eat the rice, pasta, bread, beans, oats by themselves. What you then have is beyond boring and after a while you soon go back to your animal products and fruit juices.

Like with all addictions, the longer you go without them, the easier it gets. I haven't had bread now for months and that's a very good thing. I went through a period a few months back of eating bread and it was causing no end of problems. I ended up with jock itch. Rice plugs me up. So does pasta.

Beans are very irritating to be intestine. My bowel movements are just horrendous after I have eaten beans. Potato is also really bad, but another that is absolutely yummy for your gut bacteria. No wonder you crave this stuff! Your grizzly gut bugs love it. It's fine dining for them as they ooze out their toxic byproducts. But this is just my experience with starch. And it just so happens to align with everything that Ray tells me about starch. Weird that.

I think Ray Peat is right about starch. It will keep you alive. Perhaps for a long time. But I feel ten times better without starch in my life. Yeast infections go away, sex drive increases, my gut quietens down, my skin starts to glow. Lots of things get better.

But Ray hasn't ever elaborated on this starch particle in the bloodstream/blocking arteries statement. It doesn't make sense. And I do wish he would. Or if one of you chosen few (that have access to his email) could at least ask him to elaborate. It's a subject where cherry picking doesn't work. The evidence of certain starch eating cultures and longevity is there for all to see.

Thanks.
 
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cyclops

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I can't afford not to eat starch. Plus fruit quality where I live isn't the great. So rice and potatoes help.
 
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Reaper242xx

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I think there was a self-selecting a survey here a couple of years ago showing a significant proportion (majority?) to be current starch eaters.

I also don't think you can judge a diet people have been eating for a small proportion of their life for their overall appearance of aging. You don't know how much of it comes from which phase of their life unless you've been alongside them across the phases and transitions.
Really? I find that surprising considering RP always menti0ned fruits and sucrose as being superior. Of course I guess there's that gray area where everyone's different in terms of labeling. I may eat a potato here or there but I've never considered my self a starch eater due to the lack of frequency I eat it. Others may considered themselves starch eaters even if they eat a small amount. A survey probably wouldn't distinguish the technicalities like that.
This is true, I have no idea what these people were doing before the McDougall diet.
 
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Reaper242xx

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I personally think that Peat may be correct to criticise starch, but you also can't ignore its apparent safety in certain cultures that have been studied.

It just comes down to a quality of life thing for me, personally. Without starch I feel amazing. But man is it that stuff addictive. I have to be militant to keep it away. Every day I am surrounded by it, offered it (sometimes in very socially manipulative ways). The best way to eradicate its addictiveness is to only eat the rice, pasta, bread, beans, oats by themselves. What you then have is beyond boring and after a while you soon go back to your animal products and fruit juices.

Like with all addictions, the longer you go without them, the easier it gets. I haven't had bread now for months and that's a very good thing. I went through a period a few months back of eating bread and it was causing no end of problems. I ended up with jock itch. Rice plugs me up. So does pasta.

Beans are very irritating to be intestine. My bowel movements are just horrendous after I have eaten beans. Potato is also really bad, but another that is absolutely yummy for your gut bacteria. No wonder you crave this stuff! Your grizzly gut bugs love it. It's fine dining for them as they ooze out their toxic byproducts. But this is just my experience with starch. And it just so happens to align with everything that Ray tells me about starch. Weird that.

I think Ray Peat is right about starch. It will keep you alive. Perhaps for a long time. But I feel ten times better without starch in my life. Yeast infections go away, sex drive increases, my gut quietens down, my skin starts to glow. Lots of things get better.

But Ray hasn't ever elaborated on this starch particle in the bloodstream/blocking arteries statement. It doesn't make sense. And I do wish he would. Or if one of you chosen few (that have access to his email) could at least ask him to elaborate. It's a subject where cherry picking doesn't work. The evidence of certain starch eating cultures and longevity is there for all to see.

Thanks.
Your experiences are very similar to mine when starch is overeaten for me. Ray also mentioned that sucrose and fruit won't trigger a stress response but starch will. Maybe this has something to do with it's intense effect on the digestive tract? As to the artery blocking effect starch has I could be wrong but I think I remember hearing where Peat said that's only if the starch is undercooked.
 

Wagner83

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So you think starch is necessary for healthy diet?
Some people seem to do well without it, but for others it seems much more difficult, so for them it may be necessary. Jsaute reported needing starch too, he's lean, pretty muscular, young and uses pro metabolic substances. I wanted the no-starch diet to be the cure for me and end to all of my issues but it did not work out, that doesn't mean it won't work out for others (e.g. haidut, Ray, tca, Jennifer..). Perhaps a fruitarian diet would be better than milk + OJ as most of the calories. An other thing is that I found digestion and health can be very much improved by environment, not eating starch, in my experience, can be isolating, sharing meals with friends is great. @tara is an other one who eats starch and does better with it and off milk as far as I remember.
 

Sobieski

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His BMI is the same as Peats:

View attachment 7613


Can't help but notice how at 81 Peat looks so much more youthful than so many younger health 'gurus'. I'm not referring to superficial things like hair colour or skin tone; there's something about how he holds himself and his posture that makes him appear younger, compared to others who frankly look very frail and old despite being chronologically younger.
 

theLaw

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Some people seem to do well without it, but for others it seems much more difficult, so for them it may be necessary. Jsaute reported needing starch too, he's lean, pretty muscular, young and uses pro metabolic substances. I wanted the no-starch diet to be the cure for me and end to all of my issues but it did not work out, that doesn't mean it won't work out for others (e.g. haidut, Ray, tca, Jennifer..). Perhaps a fruitarian diet would be better than milk + OJ as most of the calories. An other thing is that I found digestion and health can be very much improved by environment, not eating starch, in my experience, can be isolating, sharing meals with friends is great. @tara is an other one who eats starch and does better with it and off milk as far as I remember.

My point in the earlier post was for those who continue to have health issues, especially related to digestion, it's hard to justify eating starch when Ray warns against it, and yet so many people just seem resigned to keep it as a part of their diet.

There are many of Ray's suggestions that I found intensely difficult until some new info helped me understand the entire process more clearly. Then it was fairly easy to execute.

Liquids are a prime example. I've never felt worse on any diet, than when I was trying initially to ingest large amounts of liquids. However, after improving my blood sugar issues, adding caffeine and thyroid, and using AC/carrots, I can now easily take in nearly a gallon of liquid per day provided that I have enough salt.

With regards to the "need" for starch, I think it's primarily driven by three issues:

1. Need for calorically dense food

2. Unhealthy gut bacteria

3. Need for more salt - starch is a perfect salt delivery method

Possible solutions:

1. 1T/hr of sugar/fructose after blood sugar issues are resolved (Taurine + OJ every 4hrs worked for me)

2. AC/carrot salad

3. Salted milk
 
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it's hard to justify eating starch when Ray warns against it

He doesn't always warn against it. The quotes you ignore: "Positive" Peat quotes on starch

As I always point out, the true Peatarian diet, as defined by what the actual man himself ingests, is 95% starch free with the only exception coming from the very occasional nixtamalized Mexican corn tortilla and baby turnip, as of this writing on 12/20/17. Be that as it may, he's nonetheless said those other "positive" things about starch and people can experiment for themselves. Yes I know of the negative quotes. But the positives ones are there too. This is why I said if you want to be like Peat, like how kids wanted to be like Mike, (Jordan), then eating anything other than what he does himself makes some people look retarded to me when they still call it "Peaty." And that is not fair in a nutrition debate sense to claim that such foods are "Peaty" when they're not. They're more like "Peat has said how these could work-ey" not just "Peaty." People fail to categorize things.

1. Need for calorically dense food

Or how about the need for "a few hundred grams of carbohydrate either as starch or sugar everyday.."

.
 

EIRE24

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My point in the earlier post was for those who continue to have health issues, especially related to digestion, it's hard to justify eating starch when Ray warns against it, and yet so many people just seem resigned to keep it as a part of their diet.

There are many of Ray's suggestions that I found intensely difficult until some new info helped me understand the entire process more clearly. Then it was fairly easy to execute.

Liquids are a prime example. I've never felt worse on any diet, than when I was trying initially to ingest large amounts of liquids. However, after improving my blood sugar issues, adding caffeine and thyroid, and using AC/carrots, I can now easily take in nearly a gallon of liquid per day provided that I have enough salt.

With regards to the "need" for starch, I think it's primarily driven by three issues:

1. Need for calorically dense food

2. Unhealthy gut bacteria

3. Need for more salt - starch is a perfect salt delivery method

Possible solutions:

1. 1T/hr of sugar/fructose after blood sugar issues are resolved (Taurine + OJ every 4hrs worked for me)

2. AC/carrot salad

3. Salted milk
And you resolved blood sugar issues by?
 

theLaw

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He doesn't always warn against it. The quotes you ignore: "Positive" Peat quotes on starch

As I always point out, the true Peatarian diet, as defined by what the actual man himself ingests, is 95% starch free with the only exception coming from the very occasional nixtamalized Mexican corn tortilla and baby turnip, as of this writing on 12/20/17. Be that as it may, he's nonetheless said those other "positive" things about starch and people can experiment for themselves. Yes I know of the negative quotes. But the positives ones are there too. This is why I said if you want to be like Peat, like how kids wanted to be like Mike, (Jordan), then eating anything other than what he does himself makes some people look retarded to me when they still call it "Peaty." And that is not fair in a nutrition debate sense to claim that such foods are "Peaty" when they're not. They're more like "Peat has said how these could work-ey" not just "Peaty." People fail to categorize things.



Or how about the need for "a few hundred grams of carbohydrate either as starch or sugar everyday.."

.

I was specifically referring to those who post here and continue to have health issues while keeping starch in their diet, so you support my argument.:cool:
 

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