Joe Rogan Carnivore Diet Update

Blossom

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It becomes a little more challenging to maintain with ease regardless of how well we take care of ourselves after 40 and even more so after 50 in my experience. I have respect for anyone who continues to try to better their situation and doesn’t give up even if I don’t necessarily agree with how they go about it.
 
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Markus

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So if that’s the case how was Stefansson able to eat just meat for a whole year and be monitored by doctors at a New York hospital and remain in good health. This notion that everyone on the carnivore diet crashes seems overblown and the exaggeration of a few anecdotal reports. Obviously I’m not dismissing those who do have the experience of crashing on the diet, but something else must be going on in those people to produce that effect, as many others do fine.
Stefansson died of a stroke at the age of 80 so I'm not very impressed by his level of health.
 
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Why is he even doing it?

Logic would assume he's not having perfect health and want to try something else to see if it resolves said problems.
What's wrong with trying?
What's wrong with a carnivore diet?
I can see why people do this diet. Something that a ton of people say while they're carnivore is the lack of bloating, which some people have had for a long time. You really can't blame someone for looking for relief, especially from digestive issues. I myself have been thinking about doing it for a while, but I'm afraid that I'll end hurting myself in the long run, due to less CO2, less thyroid hormone, more ammonia due to gluconeogenesis( and ammonia needs CO2 to turn into urea). I guess that's all that I'm worried about when it comes to a carnivore diet. Otherwise, it seems awesome. Stefansson did this diet for a long time and, as @Wichway? said, he remained healthy, and there are people who have eaten like this for years and are fine. Groups of people like the Inuit have eaten like this for generations too, although there is the confounding factor of big amounts of omega-3 consumption, which may account for some bad things they were suffering from, such as looking older than they really are. The Mongolians also eat basically meat, meat fat and milk, right? Not zero carb, but not high carb either. They seem healthy, although I'm open to evidence of the contrary.

I'm probably gonna try it one day, honestly, to see how I feel on it.
 
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Stefansson died of a stroke at the age of 80 so I'm not very impressed by his level of health.
Do you know whether he was still on the carnivore diet when he passed away?
 
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Why is he even doing it?

Logic would assume he's not having perfect health and want to try something else to see if it resolves said problems.
What's wrong with trying?
What's wrong with a carnivore diet?

Or we could assume he has fallen for a sort of "fad diet" like many other people do for various reasons. Not saying I have never done it, but I approach diet more sensibly/scientifically than just on whether one could argue how much personal sense it might make for one taking an interest in it initially (look at arguments for people on veganism being good; paleo; Med-diets; etc.). Also, because some people deliberately and blindly pursue some diets under the reasoning of, "OMG, meat! Let's eat tons of it because it's good," it's not really always correct if everyone followed their gut instinct for their own sake exactly. If so, I guess all of those obese, diabetic, PUFA-laden people are also 'correct' for following their instincts and food guidance. But I don't see the point in this argument. I don't think I said anything too argumentative, did I?

Well, it could be due to the fact that he's 52 and he no longer has access to Prime Time NBC level makeup, wardrobe, lighting, and special effects.

Or it could be because he's "aging" faster than he could otherwise -- but who would ever conceive of such a thing. He obviously only looks older because he's 52 -- no further questions needed! I forgot that every 52 year old person or 'X year old' looks the same aging-wise. I mean this isn't an attack on him -- I'm just being objective. I have nothing against him personally -- I just notice that he looks more noticeably worn out in some ways that may not substantiate well with him being 52.

If his health has worsened and that's his desire to try this I don't think he's going to make much improvement on a long-term carnivore diet -- especially considering the stereotypical carnivore diet is loads of steaks/muscle meat, bacon, even more extra PUFA probably, etc. It is basically replacing almost everything you'd eat with meat of some sort, with few exceptions like milk/some dairy in some possible cases. The problem is that these diets have more of a forbidden attitude toward carbs, whereas high carb consumption generally has stronger ties with longevity and heart health, etc. Carnivore to me has the sense of fad to it in that it views sugar/carbs as "evil" more, which is the same extreme side that the vegan/vegetarian diets have toward meat and its consumption excess (certain amino excess) having other health problems as well.
 
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Markus

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Groups of people like the Inuit have eaten like this for generations too, although there is the confounding factor of big amounts of omega-3 consumption, which may account for some bad things they were suffering from, such as looking older than they really are.
The Inuit were not healthy contrary to popular beliefs.
 

boris

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I'm probably gonna try it one day, honestly, to see how I feel on it.

You have to do what you have to do, but in my opinion it's not worth it. If you have an underlying condition that your high metabolism is keeping in check it will come out and you'll have a hell of a time fixing it. For me it made a fungal infection run wild.

I think the only way to do carnivore somewhat safely is if you eat the whole animal including the thyroid gland. + optimally milk, cheese and honey for calcium and carbs and living in altitude.
 
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As an aside post/extension from my previous one here it seems clear that carnivore fails in its approach to anti-carbs. The diet isn't intrinsically bad in my view in all ways, but the "carb forbidding" nature of it is what makes it fad-ish to me. Where is the evidence that tons of meat (likely muscle too) and low or no carbs would be good or optimal for anyone in the long term (or even short exactly)? I get the angle or "spin" on carnivore, but I'm kind of lost on where to go from the focus on meat and elimination aspect of certain other macros entirely. What's wrong with plenty of meat and carbs (which is probably more natural)? Like lots of other mainstream crap, the carb limiting/restricting because they're "bad" is what specifically makes carnivore questionable to me. On this diet your macros can be anything like 45-45-10 to even 50-50-0 nearly since fruit is obviously restricted, along with stuff like honey, plain sugar, pasta even, etc. You would also likely overload on methionine and miss out on other nutrient blends from fruit and such mixed in at various levels otherwise. I do get meat cravings, but I'd probably be sick/feel unwell eventually if I was eating nothing but it and restricting/eliminating fruits, juice, carbs/sugar in general of some sort. I think it's the carb reduction, mental stress, excess protein/whey shake concentrates/high muscle meat/high PUFA consumption of the past that led me here anyways, more or less (plus the over-exercising/stressing from a mobile standpoint too).

Some say they "feel good" on it so that substantiates it. What about people who "feel good" on high PUFA, iron intake, low quality vitamins/mineral junk food diets? What of mental illness, mania, gambling addiction, physical violence, etc.? People can even feel good fasting (even dry), AKA starving themselves and avoiding liquids too for some time (basically people can "feel good" in almost every conceivable state of being, "high level" or "low level"). Something feeling good for some time isn't always indicative of it being good overall. I think of something making you feel good as a temporary/transitional phase -- an adaptation you could say. I realized I could feel good at or around even some horrible moments in my life. Does this mean I should relive those moments of pain, stress, emotional damage, etc. consistently because there was some silver lining? I think even many people might feel good before or as they draw closer to dying, as with diseases and such. We are capable of good feelings at even the worst times for even the worst reasons/outcomes/experiences for us in many ways, which proves that a good feeling at various times doesn't always mean it's a lasting, systemic effect on our health or lives (or a good thing overall). Marked feelings from various events are fleeting often and acting like various "states" of their own, but longstanding health maintenance & improvement stays with you and corroborates a sense of wellness nearly always that stands more firmly than, say, manic/depressive bouts and changes that have more "pizzazz" to them like how some people may ride on the stress/on the edge feeling even though that can destroy you in not much time.
 

theLaw

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Rogan went gray in his beard recently, and he apparently has an knee injury which has limited his ability to exercise.
 

Blossom

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Peat said carnivore could be fine by including dairy.
 

LLight

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Like lots of other mainstream crap, the carb limiting/restricting because they're "bad" is what specifically makes carnivore questionable to me.

I think this is a misconception because the name is badly chosen. Zerocarb does not equal zero carb but zero plant, like carnivore.
 
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Peat said carnivore could be fine by including dairy.

The thing is, how much dairy would be needed? There are carbs in milk for example, but if you're getting 100+ grams of protein a day from meat alone, and trying to favor a 2:1 carb:protein ratio or so the figures become a bit insane if one wants to keep carbs higher and protein lower, for example, by using milk as a primary means to add carbs, which can introduce a whole new assortment of issues itself anyways. It just seems more sensible to spread things thinner each than to go to extremes more on one macro/food choice/etc. But then again carnivore isn't about carbs so there would be no proper figure on carbs:protein anyways since the lowest amount of carbs possible is likely what most go for on carnivore, which goes back to the potential issues of low/no carbs and high meat/methionine, protein and fats in comparison. Adding more milk/carbs, for example, with the meat to balance it all out would negate some of the carnivore angle/approach anyways (by keeping it lower carbs).

It "could" be fine depending on the meat:dairy ratio and specific choices, but to what end one must assume the factors needed to do such can be difficult to implement and follow on with. Peat believes tryptophan and methionine restriction are good for health, along with balancing out phosphrous and calcium -- but really both of those prior mentioned things are not very feasible on "expert mode carnivore" or etc. where it's all about the meats mostly. I'm no "expert," but I'm not convinced by the carnivore angle on long-term health -- especially the really extreme approaches of some where there is zero/near zero carbs and just muscle meats endlessly.

I think this is a misconception because the name is badly chosen. Zerocarb does not equal zero carb but zero plant, like carnivore.

Isn't carnivore about really low carbs in general anyways? The favor is still heavily skewed toward proteins and fats and carbs on the low side at best usually I think.
 
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Blossom

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The thing is, how much dairy would be needed? There are carbs in milk for example, but if you're getting 100+ grams of protein a day from meat alone, and trying to favor a 2:1 carb:protein ratio or so the figures become a bit insane if one wants to keep carbs higher and protein lower, for example, by using milk as a means to add carbs, which can introduce a whole new assortment of issues itself anyways. It just seems more sensible to spread things thinner each than to go to extremes more on one macro/side/etc. But then again carnivore isn't about carbs so there would be no proper figure on carbs:protein anyways since the lowest amount of carbs possible is likely what most go for on carnivore, which goes back to the potential issues of low/no carbs and high meat/methionine, protein and fats in comparison. If by "dairy"

It "could" be fine depending on the meat:dairy ratio, but to what end one must assume the factors needed to do such can be difficult to implement and follow on with.



Isn't carnivore about really low carbs in general anyways? The favor is still heavily skewed toward proteins and fats and carbs on the low side at best usually I think.
Yes, it seems most do not include any significant amount of dairy. I think the calcium seems important for balancing all the phosphorus at least. Unlike Joe most people seem in pretty poor health when the opt to try carnivore.
 
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Yes, he was. In addition, his other partner in the study also died at a fairly young age.
Damn. Thanks. Do you know what meat he was eating?

The Inuit were not healthy contrary to popular beliefs.
Yeah, somebody pointed that out to me a couple of months ago, but I didn't look into it properly. Thanks for the reminder. I'll try to read about them more.

You have to do what you have to do, but in my opinion it's not worth it. If you have an underlying condition that your high metabolism is keeping in check it will come out and you'll have a hell of a time fixing it. For me it made a fungal infection run wild.

I think the only way to do carnivore somewhat safely is if you eat the whole animal including the thyroid gland. + optimally milk, cheese and honey for calcium and carbs and living in altitude.
Thanks for the warning. If I do decide to do it, I'll make sure to pay attention to any strange symptom and do something about it as soon as possible.

A carnivore diet with multiple parts of the animal, as well as dairy and honey sounds delicious, and I agree that it's probably safer, from a metabolic standpoint. Sadly, I can't tolerate cow's dairy, and I can't tolerate goat's dairy either. I still never tried sheep or camel dairy though.

I'm still thinking about this. It's more like a last resort. I still have a few things to try regarding dealing with bloating. But it's nice to have a strategy like the carnivore diet in the back of my mind like a safety net, in case all else fails.
 

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I'm surprised and glad to hear that...it's where I've been for several months now.
Yes, I was surprised too at first but I think he’s more open minded than we sometimes realize or give him credit for actually. He said the same thing about a vegan diet. There are probably many different ways people can eat and be healthy and it’s just a matter of finding what works for us as individuals. It can be a challenge to figure it out though with so many options! I hope you are feeling well.
 

tara

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There are probably many different ways people can eat and be healthy and it’s just a matter of finding what works for us as individuals. It can be a challenge to figure it out though with so many options!
+1
 
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Yes, I was surprised too at first but I think he’s more open minded than we sometimes realize or give him credit for actually. He said the same thing about a vegan diet. There are probably many different ways people can eat and be healthy and it’s just a matter of finding what works for us as individuals. It can be a challenge to figure it out though with so many options! I hope you are feeling well.
:darts: Thanks Blossom, am doing great thanks, in large part due to Peat, Haidut and forum...Yes, I've waded through all the many options over the last 5 years... and there are many...but have put it all together for myself...constantly "refining"... and I am in the best health ever after my previous health problems. I have honestly enjoyed the challenge.
 

Blossom

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:darts: Thanks Blossom, am doing great thanks, in large part due to Peat, Haidut and forum...Yes, I've waded through all the many options over the last 5 years... and there are many...but have put it all together for myself...constantly "refining"... and I am in the best health ever after my previous health problems. I have honestly enjoyed the challenge.
That’s fantastic! I think it’s super important to be empowered to think for ourselves and I believe that’s ultimately what leads to lasting positive change. I’m beyond thrilled for you!
 

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