Joe Rogan Carnivore Diet Update

[TheBeard]

Always fun when Ray Peat Forum goes crazy with a meat rebellion.

I don't love the source below but they are referring to other studies and seem to be quoting them accurately. When they went to do a study of the great health of the Masai, only 3 out of 400 men were over age 55.

So carnivore is great if you want to die young.

Women and children ate meat only 1 to 5 times a month:

Masai and Inuit High-Protein Diets: A Closer Look - Center for Nutrition Studies

Are the Masai and Inuits as healthy as the Paleo enthusiasts make them out to be?

nutritionstudies.org

An earlier study showed 80% of men over 40 had severe fibrosis of their aorta. 50 autopsied men had extensive atherosclerosis.

A study of Greenland in 1976 found the Inuit got 37% of their calories from carbs. Other studies going back to the late 1930s show their diet was 53% carbs.

The bone health of the Inuit sucks. The claims about their heart health seem poorly founded.

More references through the link.

They die from the inherant dangers of their inhabitats.
They also die from the newly introduced junk foods, not from their traditional diets.

 

[baccheion]

They die from the inherant dangers of their inhabitats.
They also die from the newly introduced junk foods, not from their traditional diets.

Mongolia consumes primarily meat and dairy. The women are prettier (50% of female Asian models are from there IIRC) and live much longer than males.

One study showed them having 20% higher estrogen, 20% lower testosterone, and 50% higher progesterone compared to women from the UK.

Higher estrogen to testosterone is associated with increased female attractiveness.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Usually herding tribes are heavily into milk, not meat. (Think the Masai.) Some meat is eaten to keep milk production high.

When my sister went to Mongolia, she was fed milk and fermented milk constantly.

And Mongolia's empires were sustained by grains: millets.

How millets sustained Mongolia's empires

Researchers examined stable isotopes from bone collagen and dental enamel to reconstruct the diets of ancient Mongolians. Findings challenge the popular notion of a completely nomadic prehistoric population, linking grain cultivation with the success of the Xiongnu Empire (c. 200 BCE-150 CE) and...

www.sciencedaily.com

Anecdotes from people who supposedly did fine on meat for years are frankly not credible in the face of the research presented by Ray.

What about Hong Kong though? They eat the most meat per day of all countries( in terms of per capita measurements), almost 600 grams a day, and they have the longest life expectancy of all countries. I think other factors account for high mortality in indigenous groups that eat mostly animal foods.

One criticism of the Hong Kong example could be that they aren't eating just muscle meat, they're eating seafood too, and likely other traditional foods, such as bone broth for collagen, as well as organs( liver, heart, tripe, among others). Eating "nose to tail" is superior, but It still doesn't change the fact that it's animal tissue they're eating, and, if we look at how many beneficial substances it has, it makes sense. Things like creatine, carnosine, anserine, inosine, zinc, selenium, high quality protein, vitamin A( as retinol), CoQ10( which plant foods have as well, but it's more plentiful in flesh), the list goes on.

This of course isn't an argument for everyone to eat just meat or just meat and milk, but we do have people on this forum who are doing much better eating more or less like that, so for them it works. Korven, Blossom, TheBeard are examples of people that seem to do better by eating mostly animal foods, so I think it's unfair to say that we shouldn't believe their experience.

Also, I think millet would be way below meat on a hypothetical list of Ray's ideal foods. As an Empire grows, the tendency is to move towards easy-to-mass-produce foods such as grains, which isn't necessarily tied to what's healthiest.

About the diet of Mongolians, I think when people have access to dairy, they tend to eat more of it than meat, because if they only have access to dairy and meat, they may end up consuming way too much protein if they favor the latter. Getting calories from dairy instead of suet or trim fat will also deliver more nutrients( as well as some carbs).

One big thing that the carnivore diet will do is lower the production of endotoxin in the bowel, which is tied to providing a lot of nutrients and protein( which people on the standard american diet lack) without irritating materials. About 90% of serotonin is produced in the gut, so simply removing irritating things can lower cortisol( since serotonin is the most powerful stimulating agent of cortisol). I'm not saying the carnivore diet is Ray approved or whatever, but I believe there are reasons why people benefit from it.

 

[TheBeard]

What about Hong Kong though? They eat the most meat per day of all countries( in terms of per capita measurements), almost 600 grams a day, and they have the longest life expectancy of all countries. I think other factors account for high mortality in indigenous groups that eat mostly animal foods.

One criticism of the Hong Kong example could be that they aren't eating just muscle meat, they're eating seafood too, and likely other traditional foods, such as bone broth for collagen, as well as organs( liver, heart, tripe, among others). Eating "nose to tail" is superior, but It still doesn't change the fact that it's animal tissue they're eating, and, if we look at how many beneficial substances it has, it makes sense. Things like creatine, carnosine, anserine, inosine, zinc, selenium, high quality protein, vitamin A( as retinol), CoQ10( which plant foods have as well, but it's more plentiful in flesh), the list goes on.

This of course isn't an argument for everyone to eat just meat or just meat and milk, but we do have people on this forum who are doing much better eating more or less like that, so for them it works. Korven, Blossom, TheBeard are examples of people that seem to do better by eating mostly animal foods, so I think it's unfair to say that we shouldn't believe their experience.

Also, I think millet would be way below meat on a hypothetical list of Ray's ideal foods. As an Empire grows, the tendency is to move towards easy-to-mass-produce foods such as grains, which isn't necessarily tied to what's healthiest.

About the diet of Mongolians, I think when people have access to dairy, they tend to eat more of it than meat, because if they only have access to dairy and meat, they may end up consuming way too much protein if they favor the latter. Getting calories from dairy instead of suet or trim fat will also deliver more nutrients( as well as some carbs).

One big thing that the carnivore diet will do is lower the production of endotoxin in the bowel, which is tied to providing a lot of nutrients and protein( which people on the standard american diet lack) without irritating materials. About 90% of serotonin is produced in the gut, so simply removing irritating things can lower cortisol( since serotonin is the most powerful stimulating agent of cortisol). I'm not saying the carnivore diet is Ray approved or whatever, but I believe there are reasons why people benefit from it.

I've lived in Hong Kong for a long time.
They eat mostly junk food, starch, carbs, and a little meat here and there.
The secret of their longevity lies in their advanced medical system.

 

[Nemo]

They die from the inherant dangers of their inhabitats.
They also die from the newly introduced junk foods, not from their traditional diets.

I knew for sure I would hear from you, Beard.

It took guts to post in the Meat Rebellion thread.

 

[JacobG]

Sounds like a good way to get more glycine in! Do you just mix gelatin and cream into hot coffee?

I have one of those milk frother in which I pour the hot coffee, cream, the gelatin and let it mix.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

I've lived in Hong Kong for a long time.
They eat mostly junk food, starch, carbs, and a little meat here and there.
The secret of their longevity lies in their advanced medical system.

That's disappointing to hear! Even the older folks eat bad food? What feature of their medical system do you think is most different compared to American/ western one?

Another example that I found was people in Argentina, which Ray even mentioned in one of his articles, who eat around a pound of meat a day( likely beef) and doesn't seem to have more health problems for it. From Meat physiology, stress, and degenerative physiology :
"Mexicans, despite their low average income, have a very high per capita consumption of meat, as do several other Latin American countries. Argentina has a per capita meat consumption of nearly a pound a day. There is a lot of theorizing about the role of meat in causing cancer, for example comparing Japan's low mortality from prostate cancer, and their low meat consumption, with the high prostate cancer mortality in the US, which has a higher meat consumption. But Argentina and Mexico's prostate cancer mortality ranks very favorably with Japan's."