Ivermectin, the CURE to homosexuality?

Dr. B

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I can see that this guy once again abandoned his account but it's no wonder: this level of discourse is useless. How many times did this guy change his mind on what was discussed, or what he thinks? And it didn't matter because it was still the same fatalism, that it probably doesn't matter. Perceive, think, act?

More importantly, I should probably apologize to everyone in this topic telling oldfriend to go back to reddit because it's clear I wasted my time trying to define terms and what was actually being discussed. I never accused this guy of any of the things he said. Professional victim is an understatement.
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@Mr.Bollox in the video, Ray talks about how prenatal and early life stress is pretty reliable in causing homosexuality. He says that everyone is abnormal in some way and law shouldn't be involved. Haidut asks him if he's seen a study that finasteride could reliably induce homosexuality, to which Ray chuckles and says he hasn't.
wouldnt the prenatal stress etc cause bisexuality, why homosexuality? also how come there are many seemingly high metabolic people who are bi or homosexual? it seems it could be biologically induced for some, but maybe culturally induced or purely a choice for some?
 

LuMonty

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wouldnt the prenatal stress etc cause bisexuality, why homosexuality? also how come there are many seemingly high metabolic people who are bi or homosexual? it seems it could be biologically induced for some, but maybe culturally induced or purely a choice for some?
That's a good question. From the studies I read, prenatal stress leads to a lack of testosterone for the fetus, and therefore it doesn't convert to estrogen and masculinize the brain. I've experienced altered sexual tastes from bromocriptine so I see what you're saying there. I also think there are other factors as you surmise. One odd fellow I met in college. When I made a smart comment that his cosplay was a girl character, he explained that he simply enjoyed crossdressing and then flat out asked me if I wanted to have sex because for him, it didn't matter what he stuck his d*** in if he hadn't gotten any from girls in awhile. College was weird.
 

Dr. B

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That's a good question. From the studies I read, prenatal stress leads to a lack of testosterone for the fetus, and therefore it doesn't convert to estrogen and masculinize the brain. I've experienced altered sexual tastes from bromocriptine so I see what you're saying there. I also think there are other factors as you surmise. One odd fellow I met in college. When I made a smart comment that his cosplay was a girl character, he explained that he simply enjoyed crossdressing and then flat out asked me if I wanted to have sex because for him, it didn't matter what he stuck his d*** in if he hadn't gotten any from girls in awhile. College was weird.
there are some guys ive met who said they would "f anything that moved" i thought it was an exaggeration just to brag about the sex drive, but it looks like it was literal in your case!
so estrogen masculinizes the brain in both men and women?
 

LuMonty

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there are some guys ive met who said they would "f anything that moved" i thought it was an exaggeration just to brag about the sex drive, but it looks like it was literal in your case!
so estrogen masculinizes the brain in both men and women?
Yes, I wish I had the study on hand, but it was on my last computer. More current studies I've read, which are only about sexual dimorphism in the brain and not necessarily sexuality, have expanded the idea to include non-aromatized estrogen as well. I haven't read thoroughly enough about that angle to comment much, but it certainly makes more sense than the mainstream fatalism.
 

changeling188

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i think it also should be mentioned that many gay people might become more metabolically stressed/anxious through the process of navigating the culture that exists around them and, in many places, the serious danger and risk that presenting as a gay person poses. The constant activation of a stress response so to speak.

i do agree that there is a refusal by many to ascribe homosexuality to any bioenergetic or sociocultural cause, but i think the process is more complicated than an in-utero stress adaptation. It seems homosexuality is connected to urbanisation across history, which would seem to be a quite useful response to the issue of over-crowding. And of course, many homosexuals do reproduce as has already been mentioned.

all of these threads follow along the same lines as the discussion about autism which is a highly simplistic analysis of how hormones affect development (separate from socialisation and life experience) and the presentation of cherry-picked scientific information with the suggestion that identifying the reason for homosexuality and a theoretical 'cure' would be something worthy of scientific pursuit.

You find some areas, mostly the arts, in which homosexual people have contributed vastly and disproportionately more to the enrichment of society such as classical music composition. This is one of the highest expressions of human creativity and It seems that if such talents were valued highly, or incorporated into our idea of what an evolved masculinity meant, then we would have more appreciation for homosexuality.

And beyond utility, homosexual men seem to be adept in the art of risk-taking and in western societies at least preserve a kind of animalistic style of masculinity in their sex lives that heterosexual men are increasingly shut out from. For example, the culture of cruising.

Libido is a measure of the ability for an organism to be reactive and experience enjoyment. In energetic crisis, libido is deactivated. I've never heard of a homosexual person complain about their libido. I'm sure there are many, but part of the ingenuity of the homosexual subculture is that sex remains dynamic and spontaneous to a large degree. I think many heterosexual men could learn something about sex from their approach.

I think if we continue to maintain a very close-minded view of how evolution operates and not think about the benefits 'abnormal' experiences can have on society and on 'normal' people, we will continue to find reasons to waste our time by pathologising their existence. Everyone is going to experience stresses, whether in-utero or childhood or in their adulthood. The ideology of trying to eliminate these, or viewing their outcomes as inherently negative as opposed to complex and pluralistic is what many people take issue with.

I think in many ways the complacency of many people who pursue heterosexual coupling due to social convention and end up in unstimulating, unhealthy, and low-energy environments where every life event is just an automatic progression from another is more of a threat. For many men, the nuclear family arrangement is absolutely suffocating and deprives them from same sex friendship and engaging with their minds and bodies on a deeper level. The scale on which that 'stress' operates is much vaster than the incidence of homosexuality.

I think a good demonstration is the stereotype that homosexual people are fussy or even neurotic about their appearance or more conscientious about fashion. What's never mentioned is that if you go to a gym you will find hoards of heterosexual men obsessing over their appearance, often to great detriment to their health, in a manner that represents a culture that is obsessed with conformity, dogma and lack of intellectual individuality and self-awareness.

Of course that is a generalisation and in classical music there are numerous heterosexual geniuses and many gay gym-junkies and so on and what I said isn't meant as a heterophobic kind of statement, but i just wonder where the threads are about identifying the pathology behind these dogmatic and socially rigid paradigms within heterosexual culture which continue at great detriment to heterosexual men? Even if homosexual men are born at a biological disadvantage, which i doubt, many go on to live vastly more dynamic and enjoyable lives free from the stresses of social conventions that keep many others in shackles.
 

Dr. B

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i think it also should be mentioned that many gay people might become more metabolically stressed/anxious through the process of navigating the culture that exists around them and, in many places, the serious danger and risk that presenting as a gay person poses. The constant activation of a stress response so to speak.

i do agree that there is a refusal by many to ascribe homosexuality to any bioenergetic or sociocultural cause, but i think the process is more complicated than an in-utero stress adaptation. It seems homosexuality is connected to urbanisation across history, which would seem to be a quite useful response to the issue of over-crowding. And of course, many homosexuals do reproduce as has already been mentioned.

all of these threads follow along the same lines as the discussion about autism which is a highly simplistic analysis of how hormones affect development (separate from socialisation and life experience) and the presentation of cherry-picked scientific information with the suggestion that identifying the reason for homosexuality and a theoretical 'cure' would be something worthy of scientific pursuit.

You find some areas, mostly the arts, in which homosexual people have contributed vastly and disproportionately more to the enrichment of society such as classical music composition. This is one of the highest expressions of human creativity and It seems that if such talents were valued highly, or incorporated into our idea of what an evolved masculinity meant, then we would have more appreciation for homosexuality.

And beyond utility, homosexual men seem to be adept in the art of risk-taking and in western societies at least preserve a kind of animalistic style of masculinity in their sex lives that heterosexual men are increasingly shut out from. For example, the culture of cruising.

Libido is a measure of the ability for an organism to be reactive and experience enjoyment. In energetic crisis, libido is deactivated. I've never heard of a homosexual person complain about their libido. I'm sure there are many, but part of the ingenuity of the homosexual subculture is that sex remains dynamic and spontaneous to a large degree. I think many heterosexual men could learn something about sex from their approach.

I think if we continue to maintain a very close-minded view of how evolution operates and not think about the benefits 'abnormal' experiences can have on society and on 'normal' people, we will continue to find reasons to waste our time by pathologising their existence. Everyone is going to experience stresses, whether in-utero or childhood or in their adulthood. The ideology of trying to eliminate these, or viewing their outcomes as inherently negative as opposed to complex and pluralistic is what many people take issue with.

I think in many ways the complacency of many people who pursue heterosexual coupling due to social convention and end up in unstimulating, unhealthy, and low-energy environments where every life event is just an automatic progression from another is more of a threat. For many men, the nuclear family arrangement is absolutely suffocating and deprives them from same sex friendship and engaging with their minds and bodies on a deeper level. The scale on which that 'stress' operates is much vaster than the incidence of homosexuality.

I think a good demonstration is the stereotype that homosexual people are fussy or even neurotic about their appearance or more conscientious about fashion. What's never mentioned is that if you go to a gym you will find hoards of heterosexual men obsessing over their appearance, often to great detriment to their health, in a manner that represents a culture that is obsessed with conformity, dogma and lack of intellectual individuality and self-awareness.

Of course that is a generalisation and in classical music there are numerous heterosexual geniuses and many gay gym-junkies and so on and what I said isn't meant as a heterophobic kind of statement, but i just wonder where the threads are about identifying the pathology behind these dogmatic and socially rigid paradigms within heterosexual culture which continue at great detriment to heterosexual men? Even if homosexual men are born at a biological disadvantage, which i doubt, many go on to live vastly more dynamic and enjoyable lives free from the stresses of social conventions that keep many others in shackles.
homosexuals reproducing do you mean homosexual men still have wives but they just arent attracted to them?
 

changeling188

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homosexuals reproducing do you mean homosexual men still have wives but they just arent attracted to them?
yes even though they still might enjoy it, just less. perhaps social cohesion or family honour is just more of a priority than personal gratification or truthfulness.

but also gay men can reproduce as sperm donors to their surrogates.
 
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This is hilarious because the whole premise is wrong. Please go back and study biological evolution.

Homosexuals can and do reproduce. Just because many don't doesn't mean they can't, and this is an important distinction in evolutionary biology. Homosexuals are fertile, therefore they serve a natural selection function. They have had children throughout history. Even in the modern world, it's not uncommon for a person to take an opposite sex partner to fulfill familial duties and have a same-sex lover on the side. The notion that homosexuals can't have opposite-sex sex and heterosexuals can't have homosexual sex is a modern social invention.

Besides that, heterosexuals produce homosexuals even in the complete absence of homosexuals. The parents are not secretly homosexual.

Homosexuality seems to be tied to female fecundity. The more fertile a woman is, the more likely she is to produce homosexual offspring. There is likely an altruistic advantage to this because an offspring that is less likely to reproduce is more likely to aid the fecundity of females in the community. In other words, homosexuals are biological altruists because they aid the fitness advantage of other reproductive humans at the cost to their own reproduction. It doesn't mean they don't reproduce though, it just means they are less likely to. Nature is cool like that. Even in those less likely to reproduce, they are not sterile and therefore can still contribute to natural selection.

Go back and learn some biology!
In my university I know at least two homosexual male professors who had kids with a woman.
 
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Frankdee20

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Dopamine agonists can cause hypersexuality or abnormal sexual behavior too, which I think suggests the issue is just complicated . I remember reading an article about otters that raped and killed baby seals out of frustration or boredom. In humans, homosexuality is more likely to occur when the mother suffers some kind of prenatal stress, or if they are born 2nd or higher in line. It's been a while since I've looked, but there are a few epigenetic theories out there and those personally resonate with me the most, although I think it's very likely that there's more than one cause. I think this idea of homosexuality breeding itself out of existence is ridiculous; likely to be an epigenetic adaptation or in some cases a learned behavior IMO.

Maybe sad for some of you to hear, but I haven't had any success *curing* (not that I actually think it needs curing) my homosexuality with turpentine, parasite cleanses, low starch diets etc. When I did zero starch and metergoline my desire to have sex with men was off the charts. I've done a lot of diets, taken a lot of supplements, done cleanses etc. over the years and I haven't felt any sexual attraction to women.
Absolutely true, great example is how methamphetamine creates lots of high risk gay sex.
 

Slappy Hands

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I'm 6 foot 4, 85 kg, my iq is north of 140 and I have to explain to chicks that I'm not into them, because they are shallow and just want my sexy af genes as soon as I walk into the room :(

I think my chadness upsets a lot of the "straight" guys who just can't compete, even when i'm not even playing their game. It's easier for them to devalue my lifestyle in order to protect the narcissistic injuries they must suffer when they subconsciously compare themselves to the big gay guy that makes them look like stunted little gerbils, by comparison

I will acknowledge that a lot of gay men are sick, both physically and mentally...just like most hetero people. I run at 37.1 through the day, I've dominated every sport I've ever competed in and despite actively engaging in homosexual behavior for 15+ years, I've never once let another man penetrate me, nor had the desire to. I just like *******, and outplaying everything around me, which just happens to be like 94% straight men lol

comparatively, I think the only reason "heterosexual" behavior is considered the norm is because most people have double digit iq's and live their lives in fear; every average idiot thus concludes that mediocrity is the will of god and anything that highlights it as anything other, must be heresy lol. it's just a sad fact that the dumber one is, the more likely they are to produce a lot of children because they are too dumb to think and simply operate on instinct, much like a b**** in heat. they just can't help it, but because they are human, they still try to rationalize it as "normal".

ps. The only man I've ever met who could compete with my libido spent 6 nights a week pumping in the gym, was on trt and needed viagra just to get it up. Thus far he's produced 5 children with severe autism or downs syndrome.

Gay guys statistically have higher circulating androgens, bigger dicks and higher iq's / sense of cooperation than their mundane counterparts, which is probably why women lament that "all the best guys are gay"

pps. I suspect hetereosexual behavior is basically just fear based prudishness. people who chastise themselves for "improper thoughts" out of fear of being socially lambasted by their average af peers, who all make the same fear-based decisions for the sake of acceptance. Not unlike religious nutjobs that burn the "non-believers", so they themselves aren't burnt lol.

it isn't disgust of homosexual behaviour that triggers them, it's the knowledge that very often they don't have the balls to approach a chick they like, let alone dominate another man, so a man who doesn't have this problem is upsetting and so they project their self-loathing onto an outside subject, be it a person a habit or a lifestyle. It's the personification of their own inadequacy as males; getting out performed by a homo in their own mileu lol.

I think unencumbered bisexual behavior is 'probably' the healthiest from a psychological perspective as it is less leveraged by prejudices, and the reason I don't engage in it is because I despise the power dynamics of conventional relationships, and I despise the idea of bringing children into a world that is overpopulated by stunted little idiots. the idea of having a solid, trusting sexual relationship with another dude is more appealing to me because men are more relatable, more fun, and put up more of a fight.

I hope my desire to tank guys validate at least a few insecure plums that read this, because I guarantee I have an easier time pulling women in my sleep than 99% of the straight community that wants to "cure" my depravity, so that they feel better about themselves lol. i legit understand your concerns, but lending credence to them isn't gonna give you a bigger cawk or help you overcome your fear of rejection or sad, desperate need for social acceptance. <- these are the real reasons you're considered inferior males, imo - it has nothing to do with who you have sex with.
 
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ursidae

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it's true that there are a lot of attractive gay men. About 85% of the men I've liked where gay or bisexual. I've found them to more flamboyant, confident, charismatic and intelligent. There might also be an element of the unavailable being more desirable in the case of women being attracted to men who are not into the opposite sex and who cannot be "won over".
I also think a lot of men are emotionally homosexual at the very least. They enjoy the company of men a lot more, are more emotionally intimate with their male friends than their wives and I've seen men state many times that whenever they enjoy the personality of a woman it's because she's like a "mate" trapped in a female body.
 
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Peater

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I'm 6 foot 4, 85 kg, my iq is north of 140 and I have to explain to chicks that I'm not into them, because they are shallow and just want my sexy af genes as soon as I walk into the room :(

I think my chadness upsets a lot of the "straight" guys who just can't compete, even when i'm not even playing their game. It's easier for them to devalue my lifestyle in order to protect the narcissistic injuries they must suffer when they subconsciously compare themselves to the big gay guy that makes them look like stunted little gerbils, by comparison

I will acknowledge that a lot of gay men are sick, both physically and mentally...just like most hetero people. I run at 37.1 through the day, I've dominated every sport I've ever competed in and despite actively engaging in homosexual behavior for 15+ years, I've never once let another man penetrate me, nor had the desire to. I just like *******, and outplaying everything around me, which just happens to be like 94% straight men lol

comparatively, I think the only reason "heterosexual" behavior is considered the norm is because most people have double digit iq's and live their lives in fear; every average idiot thus concludes that mediocrity is the will of god and anything that highlights it as anything other, must be heresy lol. it's just a sad fact that the dumber one is, the more likely they are to produce a lot of children because they are too dumb to think and simply operate on instinct, much like a b**** in heat. they just can't help it, but because they are human, they still try to rationalize it as "normal".

ps. The only man I've ever met who could compete with my libido spent 6 nights a week pumping in the gym, was on trt and needed viagra just to get it up. Thus far he's produced 5 children with severe autism or downs syndrome.

Gay guys statistically have higher circulating androgens, bigger dicks and higher iq's / sense of cooperation than their mundane counterparts, which is probably why women lament that "all the best guys are gay"

pps. I suspect hetereosexual behavior is basically just fear based prudishness. people who chastise themselves for "improper thoughts" out of fear of being socially lambasted by their average af peers, who all make the same fear-based decisions for the sake of acceptance. Not unlike religious nutjobs that burn the "non-believers", so they themselves aren't burnt lol.

it isn't disgust of homosexual behaviour that triggers them, it's the knowledge that very often they don't have the balls to approach a chick they like, let alone dominate another man, so a man who doesn't have this problem is upsetting and so they project their self-loathing onto an outside subject, be it a person a habit or a lifestyle. It's the personification of their own inadequacy as males; getting out performed by a homo in their own mileu lol.

I think unencumbered bisexual behavior is 'probably' the healthiest from a psychological perspective as it is less leveraged by prejudices, and the reason I don't engage in it is because I despise the power dynamics of conventional relationships, and I despise the idea of bringing children into a world that is overpopulated by stunted little idiots. the idea of having a solid, trusting sexual relationship with another dude is more appealing to me because men are more relatable, more fun, and put up more of a fight.

I hope my desire to tank guys validate at least a few insecure plums that read this, because I guarantee I have an easier time pulling women in my sleep than 99% of the straight community that wants to "cure" my depravity, so that they feel better about themselves lol. i legit understand your concerns, but lending credence to them isn't gonna give you a bigger cawk or help you overcome your fear of rejection or sad, desperate need for social acceptance. <- these are the real reasons you're considered inferior males, imo - it has nothing to do with who you have sex with.

TL;DR
 

Slappy Hands

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I also think a lot of men are emotionally homosexual at the very least. They enjoy the company of men a lot more, are more emotionally intimate with their male friends than their wives and I've seen men state many times that whenever they enjoy the personality of a woman it's because she's like a "mate" trapped in a female body.
100% agree

i work in an extremely "straight" environment (gym and binman) and the best bromances in my work are with guys who are so straight they may aswell be gay (all in committed relationships and fairly happy). my best friends are also straighter than rulers because friendships have little if anything to do with sex and i find it much easier bantering with people i'm not secretly undressing in my mind, again probably why guys get on with guys more than girls, mostly
 

Slappy Hands

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I was wondering what changed in those cultures that made them, by definition, ancient - and not current.

their economies collapsed and decadence followed, as has happened to literally every empire in human history...

with rome they diluted their gold reserves with copper in the first demonstration of empirical socialism and the empire turned to nothing over 400 years, during which time all manner of sexual and social debauchery occurred as law and order dissolved, specifically pederasty and transexualism. the same thing happened in france and is currently happening in america

sodomy in general however, specifically in the army has been actively encouraged for literally millenia, dating back through greece, babylon and ancient sumer because it fosters camaraderie and makes soldiers fight harder to protect one another and has only recently (last few centuries) been denounced as unacceptable

comparatively, china is soon to face an extreme population crisis and so they are going above and beyond to encourage nuclear family values and undermine homosexuality in an attempt to cement their future, the total opposite of modern american empire, who is now in their twilight years.
 

Slappy Hands

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hey, it's you!

still going through that dry spell, chum? just remember, it's not your fault. it's always the gheys, amirite?

lol.

ps. i'm not big on pity, but i gotta say...if you really didn't care about what i had to say, why are you insisting on messaging me? it's like, passive-aggressive, you know?

do you think women consider you passive-aggressive, and this is why they won't **** you?
 

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