It's official: COVID-19 vaccination may be stemming evolution of “fitter” SARS-CoV-2 variants

[haidut]

Actual title of the press article. I won't comment much on this for obvious (read: censorship) reasons, but I will say this - Luc Montagnier was right (see first link below).

@Drareg @Regina @boris @Giraffe @tankasnowgod

Nobel Prize Winner French Virologist Luc Montagnier Explains How COVID-19 Vaccines Are Creating Variants - GreatGameIndia

Nobel Prize winner French Virologist Prof. Luc Montagnier in an interview has claimed that the COVID-19 vaccines are creating variants. He said that epidemiologists know but are “silent” about the phenomenon, known as “Antibody-Dependent Enhancement" (ADE).

greatgameindia.com

COVID-19 vaccines dampen genomic diversity of SARS-CoV-2: Unvaccinated patients exhibit more antigenic mutational variance
COVID-19 vaccination may be stemming evolution of “fitter” SARS-CoV-2 variants

"...The rapid development of COVID-19 vaccines and the mass rollout of vaccination across many countries has led to more than 800 million individuals now being fully immunized globally. Such accelerated immunization of a large proportion of the population at the height of the ongoing pandemic could significantly increase evolutionary pressure on the SARS-CoV-2 virus, warn the researchers."
"...Strikingly, the team found that the diversity of these lineages has declined globally, with this decline appearing to coincide with the onset of mass vaccination rollout. When the researchers analyzed the relationship between vaccination rates and lineage entropy in 25 countries where more than 25% of the population was fully vaccinated, they found that the decline in lineage diversity was indeed correlated with increased rates of mass vaccination. Furthermore, the decline in lineage diversity was coupled with increased dominance of the B.1.1.7 (alpha), B.1.1.617 (delta) and P.1 (gamma) variants of concern, suggesting that these variants may be “fitter” SARS-CoV-2 lineages."
"...mass vaccination may consequently go far beyond the widely reported mitigation of SARS-CoV-2 infection risk and amelioration of community transmission, to include the stemming of rampant viral evolution,” they conclude."

 

[HumanLife]

What’s the difference between vaccine immunity and natural immunity? Does the vaccine immunity have a lower spectrum of protection?

 

[Comstock]

Doesn't this study show the opposite of what Montagnier is claiming? It looks like the study shows that vaccines resulted in less genetically diverse strains, and is slowing the evolution of more fitter strains.

Edit: Actually, I'm not sure how to interpret the wording. The study says genetic variance is lower after vaccination, but that the remaining lineages are, by definition, fitter?

But then this sentence below suggests that vaccines are slowing the evolution of fitter strains.
"...“This study demonstrates that mass vaccination may serve as an antigenic impediment to the evolution of fitter and more transmissive SARS-CoV-2 variants,..."

 

[haidut]

Edit: Actually, I'm not sure how to interpret the wording. The study says genetic variance is lower after vaccination, but that the remaining lineages are, by definition, fitter?

Yep, I was confused too but my guess is that the conclusion of the study had to be something "approved" (in favor of vaccines) in order to avoid getting "retracted". It is their data that is important, we can draw up our own conclusions and their finding about "fitter" strains is exactly what Montagnier said. Even if their other findings are correct and the vaccine reduces viral genetic diversity, it still flies in the face of the official position stating that it is absurd to claim vaccines have any effects on viral evolution (as Moontagnier claimed) and as such results in pressure for new variants to appear. In other words, the main finding of the study is that vaccines do, in fact, cause new variants/strains to appear and those variants are "fitter". Whether the reduced genetic diversity is a good or bad thing, remains to be seen, but most of the official narrative on lack of connection between vaccines and variants appears to be (again) false.

 

[HumanLife]

Yep, I was confused too but my guess is that the conclusion of the study had to be something "approved" (in favor of vaccines) in order to avoid getting "retracted". It is their data that is important, we can draw up our own conclusions and their finding about "fitter" strains is exactly what Montagnier said. Even if their other findings are correct and the vaccine reduces viral genetic diversity, it still flies in the face of the official position stating that it is absurd to claim vaccines have any effects on viral evolution (as Moontagnier claimed) and as such results in pressure for new variants to appear. In other words, the main finding of the study is that vaccines do, in fact, cause new variants/strains to appear and those variants are "fitter". Whether the reduced genetic diversity is a good or bad thing, remains to be seen, but most of the official narrative on lack of connection between vaccines and variants appears to be (again) false.

Would natural immunity also potentially do the same thing in which the virus also tries to become fitter, or does that depend on what the individual’s body may be capable of handling? In such a case the effective remedies stay in effect.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

From a layman's perspective, would you rather have several thousand strains of weak viruses that aren't very infective and cause mild symptoms ...

or...

Several hundred extremely virulent and deadly strains?



"decline in lineage diversity was coupled with increased dominance of the B.1.1.7 (alpha), B.1.1.617 (delta) and P.1 (gamma) variants of concern, suggesting that these variants may be “fitter” SARS-CoV-2 lineages"

This sounds like the latter, and I'd say that's not a good outcome.

 

[haidut]

Would natural immunity also potentially do the same thing in which the virus also tries to become fitter, or does that depend on what the individual’s body may be capable of handling? In such a case the effective remedies stay in effect.

I don't think natural immunity does that...as by now we would have had killer flu and cold viruses, and we have been living with them for millions of years without such events happening. Natural immunity is also not known to lead to so-called (vaccine-driven) antibody dependent enhancement (ADE), which is big factor in increasing the lethality of both the original virus as well as its mutations/variants.

Antibody-dependent enhancement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[haidut]

From a layman's perspective, would you rather have several thousand strains of weak viruses that aren't very infective and cause mild symptoms ...

or...

Several hundred extremely virulent and deadly strains?



"decline in lineage diversity was coupled with increased dominance of the B.1.1.7 (alpha), B.1.1.617 (delta) and P.1 (gamma) variants of concern, suggesting that these variants may be “fitter” SARS-CoV-2 lineages"

This sounds like the latter, and I'd say that's not a good outcome.

Yep, I agree fully. It is funny how the study findings show one thing, but then the authors generate this grand and pro-vaccine conclusion that contradicts their own findings. I am pretty sure the conclusion is politically motivated - both to even allow the study to be published and to limit the risk of it being "retracted" (read: forced out). It is good that at least the press article includes some of the findings so that people (assuming they would even read it) can draw up their own conclusions.

 

[Michael Mohn]

Reposting wiki entry of Marek disease. Mass vaccination with leaky vaccines selected for more lethal virus. Leaky vaccines only reduce symptoms but don't protect against infection and transmission. Marek's disease - Wikipedia

 

[haidut]

Reposting wiki entry of Marek disease. Mass vaccination with leaky vaccines selected for more lethal virus. Leaky vaccines only reduce symptoms but don't protect against infection and transmission. Marek's disease - Wikipedia

The usual response of doctors to this would be - it is in animals, there is no evidence for that in humans. Of course, somehow the burden is always on the people harmed by some medical intervention to prove that it was the intervention that harmed them and not something else, even if there is plenty of evidence in animals that (some) interventions kill. Something similar is happening with the well-known causative link between bacteria and Crohn's disease. It is known that the equivalent disease in animals is definitively caused by a specific bacteria and is curable by antibiotics. Yet, when the same issue is raised about humans, the medical authorities raise hell about how this "spurious" link has never been sufficiently proven in humans and whatever findings exist already apply only to animals.

Mycobacterium avium subsp. paratuberculosis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Michael Mohn]

From a layman's perspective, would you rather have several thousand strains of weak viruses that aren't very infective and cause mild symptoms ...

or...

Several hundred extremely virulent and deadly strains?



"decline in lineage diversity was coupled with increased dominance of the B.1.1.7 (alpha), B.1.1.617 (delta) and P.1 (gamma) variants of concern, suggesting that these variants may be “fitter” SARS-CoV-2 lineages"

This sounds like the latter, and I'd say that's not a good outcome.

The longer a virus passes through a population the more infectious strains dominate but they are also less dangerous. Lethal strains off themselves with the host right in the beginning. A leaky vaccine which lowers lethality but doesn't block infection or transmission selects for more lethal strains. Those who are not vaccinated will succumb to the increasingly lethal strains. More infectious but non-lethal strains are better.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

Those who are not vaccinated will succumb to the increasingly lethal strains. More infectious but non-lethal strains are better.

All the more reason to increase the dosages of my anti-viral stack in the coming autumn & winter. I am definitely not taking the shot, I'm in a low risk age group and haven't contracted (or have & don't even know it) COVID at all by now, so the chances of something bad happening to me are slim in comparison to the unknown risks of the vaccine.

 

[Steve]

Actual title of the press article. I won't comment much on this for obvious (read: censorship) reasons, but I will say this - Luc Montagnier was right (see first link below).

@Drareg @Regina @boris @Giraffe @tankasnowgod

Nobel Prize Winner French Virologist Luc Montagnier Explains How COVID-19 Vaccines Are Creating Variants - GreatGameIndia

Nobel Prize winner French Virologist Prof. Luc Montagnier in an interview has claimed that the COVID-19 vaccines are creating variants. He said that epidemiologists know but are “silent” about the phenomenon, known as “Antibody-Dependent Enhancement" (ADE).

greatgameindia.com

COVID-19 vaccines dampen genomic diversity of SARS-CoV-2: Unvaccinated patients exhibit more antigenic mutational variance
COVID-19 vaccination may be stemming evolution of “fitter” SARS-CoV-2 variants

"...“This study demonstrates that mass vaccination may serve as an antigenic impediment to the evolution of fitter and more transmissive SARS-CoV-2 variants,..."
"...The rapid development of COVID-19 vaccines and the mass rollout of vaccination across many countries has led to more than 800 million individuals now being fully immunized globally. Such accelerated immunization of a large proportion of the population at the height of the ongoing pandemic could significantly increase evolutionary pressure on the SARS-CoV-2 virus, warn the researchers."
"...Strikingly, the team found that the diversity of these lineages has declined globally, with this decline appearing to coincide with the onset of mass vaccination rollout. When the researchers analyzed the relationship between vaccination rates and lineage entropy in 25 countries where more than 25% of the population was fully vaccinated, they found that the decline in lineage diversity was indeed correlated with increased rates of mass vaccination. Furthermore, the decline in lineage diversity was coupled with increased dominance of the B.1.1.7 (alpha), B.1.1.617 (delta) and P.1 (gamma) variants of concern, suggesting that these variants may be “fitter” SARS-CoV-2 lineages."
"...mass vaccination may consequently go far beyond the widely reported mitigation of SARS-CoV-2 infection risk and amelioration of community transmission, to include the stemming of rampant viral evolution,” they conclude."

This doesn't make sense if you believe that the "vaccines" don't prevent transmission.
If they don't prevent transmission then why would there be any evolutionary pressure for the virus to mutate?

So either the "vaccines" work and people are immune which could lead to variants (ADE),
or the "vaccines" don't work and the virus has no incentive to mutate into a variant.

I'm now thoroughly confused. :)

 

[haidut]

This doesn't make sense if you believe that the "vaccines" don't prevent transmission.
If they don't prevent transmission then why would there be any evolutionary pressure for the virus to mutate?

So either the "vaccines" work and people are immune which could lead to variants (ADE),
or the "vaccines" don't work and the virus has no incentive to mutate into a variant.

I'm now thoroughly confused. :)

Well, this is exactly what Rand Paul has been trying to ask Fauci over the last several months and Fauci always escalates the situation to a shouting match and refuses to answer. Also, couple of things. First, the vaccines don't have to work in order to cause an ADE. In fact, it is precisely when they don't work well-enough that enables ADE to happen upon (re)exposure to the wild-type virus or one of its mutations. If the vaccines trigger even a mild antibody response that is enough to exert evolutionary pressure for mutation while still making the vaccines both ineffective and dangerous (due to ADE). Keep in mind that every single trial that led to an EUA for any of the available vaccines was only designed to do one thing - test if the vaccines reduce symptoms of COVID-19. Not whether they prevent (re)transmission, exacerbation, critical illness, or death. So, assuming we believe the trials all those trials showed was symptom reduction, while keeping in mind virtually all symptoms are mild even for vulnerable people with compromised health. In an sense, the trials were completely pointless.

COVID-19 Vaccine Trials Are Essentially Pointless

...because they won't tell us if the vaccines can prevent deaths or serious COVID-19 complications, or virus transmission between people. If you think I am trolling, check out the CNN and BMJ articles below - that is exactly what they are saying. If that is the case, then I do not see what is...

raypeatforum.com

Add to that the risk of ADE and you quickly see, again, that the COVID-19 vaccines released to the public so far are likely BOTH ineffective (do nothing to address the most dangerous aspects of COVID-19) AND dangerous (trigger viral evolution, and possibly ADE).

 

[kaydeegee]

So.... What the heck are we to do? :~(

I won't touch the jab with a 10-ft pole. I've been told I'm "part of the problem, holding back the solution," by someone who got their double dose. But the more that comes to light, it seems the opposite is true.

How can we protect ourselves if remaining un-jabbed will leave us more susceptible than those who took the shots as these more lethal variants emerge?

 

[haidut]

So.... What the heck are we to do? :~(

I won't touch the jab with a 10-ft pole. I've been told I'm "part of the problem, holding back the solution," by someone who got their double dose. But the more that comes to light, it seems the opposite is true.

How can we protect ourselves if remaining un-jabbed will leave us more susceptible than those who took the shots as these more lethal variants emerge?

I'd tell that person that if she/she is vaxxed then they are safe/protected and it should be none of their business if somebody else wants to be a "problem"...to themselves.