It's Just Bad

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Jacob28

Jacob28

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Thanks for answer. Do you think I need really high amounts of calcium( above 2000mg -3000mg)? and potassium, magnesium? Or just some supplementing and OJ, fruit juices, milk etc. ?

For lowering cortisol and serotonin cyproheptadine comes to my mind and I used it with some, quite little success of better sleep( I had difficulties with falling asleep), general relaxation but nothing else. And I had to increase the dose sharply, cause the tolerance was builing up rapidly -from 0.5mg to 4mg even 6mg was needed for proper sleep. I also take arimestane which should lower estrogen and practically should lower cortisol also but I don't feel much effects, maybe a little bit less night sweats and feeling hot at night.
 

Dino D

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I was trying to dramatically increase my salt intake for a few last days. Yesterday I took like 20g and I believe my face is much puffier|( especially eyes).
I it is also some fat, which I gain quite much( 49kg- 108 lbs to 132 lbs- 60 kg, I'm 5'5) in last 6 months. And I'm really not happy with it. My face became rounder and... just less attractive. I don't see much improvement with adrenaline and sleep but it was just few weeks with just ''little'' higher salt and last two with really more. I may try even more 20-50g and with some bicarbonate sodium( perhaps 3-4 tsp?) to also increase CO2 which must be terrible low( huge air hunger).

Do I need much other electrolytes( potassium, magnesium, calcium) or just high doses of calcium, some potassium( juices, a bit of supplements), magnesium chloride ???

I'm often very thirsty and can quench it! It's really frustrating and unpleasant. I get thistier the more I drink!

And why I got fatter from eating more, but don't get ANY more energy. I desperately want to see any improvement but I'm apparently doing very little.
20 gram of salt, and then 50... I dont know... how do you feel now? Is Anything helping?
 
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Jacob28

Jacob28

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Today I'm angry at myself. I take only like 4g of salt but I'll try take more. I think you misunderstood me, I took 20g only one day, then maybe 10g, today even less. I'm just too exhausted to remember, think and plan properly. I just came back from vacation( 11 days) which was 30% pleasure- the sun, sugar, protein and some Bob Dylan( integral part ;) and 70% anhedonia, adrenaline, striving to back to relatively normal state, lying on the bed tryin' to calm down, walking around house waiting for better mood(?) and quoting Townes Van Zandt( maybe you know him) - just waitin' around to die :/ So, when I went back to work, it's like 5%-9% some sort of good feeling and 95% torture

Now I'm trying to do something to get just any improvement which is so hard and exhausting due to my... exhaustion and extreme fatigue and apathy.
Now I'm really worried, cause I'm in the state in which even listening to music, playing, reading etc. gives me very little pleasure...
Sorry for my stupid post. I'm just distraught.
 
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milkboi

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Today I'm angry at myself. I take only like 4g of salt but I'll try take more. I think you misunderstood me, I took 20g only one day, then maybe 10g, today even less. I'm just too exhausted to remember, think and plan properly. I just came back from vacation( 11 days) which was 30% pleasure- the sun, sugar, protein and some Bob Dylan( integral part ;) and 70% anhedonia, adrenaline, striving to back to relatively normal state, lying on the bed tryin' to calm down, walking around house waiting for better mood(?) and quoting Townes Van Zandt( maybe you know him) - just waitin' around to die :/ So, when I went back to work, it's like 5%-9% some sort of good feeling and 95% torture

Now I'm trying to do something to get just any improvement which is so hard and exhausting due to my... exhaustion and extreme fatigue and apathy.
Now I'm really worried, cause I'm in the state in which even listening to music, playing, reading etc. gives me very little pleasure...
Sorry for my stupid post. I'm just distraught.

Hey man, you feel bad enough, don't feel bad for your totally reasonable posts.

How do you take your salt?
 
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Jacob28

Jacob28

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Just to directly to mouth, then chase with juice or I put it into capsules( 00) and take 5-10 times, more or less every 30 min - 1 hour.
 

milkboi

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Just to directly to mouth, then chase with juice or I put it into capsules( 00) and take 5-10 times, more or less every 30 min - 1 hour.

Yup the capsules are what I do too, just a prepare a lot of them in advance and then take one every hour. The chasing down I did too but it's really disgusting tbh :D
 

Dino D

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Today I'm angry at myself. I take only like 4g of salt but I'll try take more. I think you misunderstood me, I took 20g only one day, then maybe 10g, today even less. I'm just too exhausted to remember, think and plan properly. I just came back from vacation( 11 days) which was 30% pleasure- the sun, sugar, protein and some Bob Dylan( integral part ;) and 70% anhedonia, adrenaline, striving to back to relatively normal state, lying on the bed tryin' to calm down, walking around house waiting for better mood(?) and quoting Townes Van Zandt( maybe you know him) - just waitin' around to die :/ So, when I went back to work, it's like 5%-9% some sort of good feeling and 95% torture

Now I'm trying to do something to get just any improvement which is so hard and exhausting due to my... exhaustion and extreme fatigue and apathy.
Now I'm really worried, cause I'm in the state in which even listening to music, playing, reading etc. gives me very little pleasure...
Sorry for my stupid post. I'm just distraught.
Youre to emotional i think, its not all from food... you know what... youre to serious...
Serious is logical in thinking, but wrong in being... youre to serious about your problems, about your mood about those problems, then you think to much about it, analyze to much... there is no real need for that

Youre to serious, you were on a great vacation, thats a nice story, now you a bit down because its over... take it easy and dont be to serious... look at a child, or at a budha, he makes fun of him sefl and of your serious problems... I dont know if you get me, but at one piont this advice changed my life... a problem is a hard problem if you take it to serious...
On the end this life is a game, an experience, an illusion, a movie, and youre to serious about it ;)
 

Vinny

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Youre to emotional i think, its not all from food... you know what... youre to serious...
Serious is logical in thinking, but wrong in being... youre to serious about your problems, about your mood about those problems, then you think to much about it, analyze to much... there is no real need for that

Youre to serious, you were on a great vacation, thats a nice story, now you a bit down because its over... take it easy and dont be to serious... look at a child, or at a budha, he makes fun of him sefl and of your serious problems... I dont know if you get me, but at one piont this advice changed my life... a problem is a hard problem if you take it to serious...
On the end this life is a game, an experience, an illusion, a movie, and youre to serious about it ;)
wow....
Dino D, weren`t you saying recently, that this forum was only blah-blah, man?
lol
 

Dino D

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wow....
Dino D, weren`t you saying recently, that this forum was only blah-blah, man?
lol
Yes, I dont know how this is a not in line with what I said now...
And about not being to serious, I didnt got that advice here, i got it 2 years ago, and with my understanding and my personality it has a deep meaning 4 me and somehow I think it could help jacob...
I still dont think that this forum gives good answers for diet... it gives you 10 different answers, one should be right... also the peaty ones mostly dont work... like diary +OJ, coffee and tons of added sugar...
Its bla bla because it seams to me that it does not give results and people just stay as they are or get fater with super strange and rare metabolic problems...
 

Vinny

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Yes, I dont know how this is a not in line with what I said now...
And about not being to serious, I didnt got that advice here, i got it 2 years ago, and with my understanding and my personality it has a deep meaning 4 me and somehow I think it could help jacob...
I still dont think that this forum gives good answers for diet... it gives you 10 different answers, one should be right... also the peaty ones mostly dont work... like diary +OJ, coffee and tons of added sugar...
Its bla bla because it seams to me that it does not give results and people just stay as they are or get fater with super strange and rare metabolic problems...
well... it can`t work for everyone, man, it can`t... that`s why i don`t take Dr. Peat too seriously, lol
 
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Jacob28

Jacob28

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Youre to emotional i think, its not all from food... you know what... youre to serious...
Serious is logical in thinking, but wrong in being... youre to serious about your problems, about your mood about those problems, then you think to much about it, analyze to much... there is no real need for that

Youre to serious, you were on a great vacation, thats a nice story, now you a bit down because its over... take it easy and dont be to serious... look at a child, or at a budha, he makes fun of him sefl and of your serious problems... I dont know if you get me, but at one piont this advice changed my life... a problem is a hard problem if you take it to serious...
On the end this life is a game, an experience, an illusion, a movie, and youre to serious about it ;)

'' Maya, Maya, all this world is but a play
Be thou the joyful player" - "Maya'' by Incredible String Band
I get it but it's typical 'easier said than done' thing.
And I feel like physical state affects psyche stronger than psyche affects body.
 

Runenight201

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A more enjoyable way to intake salt is to drink Minute Maid tomato juice, or v8 vegetable juice. Whenever I feel the need for salt and hydration I drink that. You could also try vegetable soup with some type of animal fat added to it, but I’ve been finding that too much of that bloats me. The tomato juice digests very cleanly and usually always makes me feel better.
 
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Jacob28

Jacob28

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I don't like tomato juice, only some purée (tomato soup) but juice from tomatoes may be good way to supplement sodium and actually it has high potassium content. But I believe it might have some plant toxins- lectins, solanine, serotonin - Ray Peat's opinion. Maybe some potassium citrate, salt and baking soda would be better?
 
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Jacob28

Jacob28

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Is there an upper limit for salt consumption? 50g, 100g? What if half of that amount won't be absorbed and go 'to the toilet'? Maybe even more? The more I eat the more will go f**k itself?!
No need to balance it with some( how much?) calcium, potassium, magnesium???
 
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Jacob28

Jacob28

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Again that hard-to-quench thirst. I feel dehydrated despite taking quite a lot of salt( 10-15g a day). I'm not feeling hungry, just thirsty, like my brain is telling me- drink more! That's tiring. Also feeling cold, listless, lethargic. Swollen eyelids, puffy face, bloodshot eyes, backache, aching muscles. Not pleasant at all.
 

Cirion

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Yes, I dont know how this is a not in line with what I said now...
And about not being to serious, I didnt got that advice here, i got it 2 years ago, and with my understanding and my personality it has a deep meaning 4 me and somehow I think it could help jacob...
I still dont think that this forum gives good answers for diet... it gives you 10 different answers, one should be right... also the peaty ones mostly dont work... like diary +OJ, coffee and tons of added sugar...
Its bla bla because it seams to me that it does not give results and people just stay as they are or get fater with super strange and rare metabolic problems...

People need to become their own detective. I didn't really start to make connections until I started really analyzing how foods, macros, calories, etc etc actually impact me from an objective viewpoint via generating correlations -> finding causations. I kept hiring coaches to do the detective work for me, and it's a waste of money and your time for the most part. You must, must becomes your OWN coach if you want long-term success and take charge of your own life and health. Your body is your own and the harsh truth is that no one cares about you more than you, not to mention that people other than you simply can't know how you feel or what is helpful to you.

I have found that most of what Peat said is true, but with many "conditions" and "limits" that are subtle, and must be discovered for yourself. For example - Milk and OJ are conditionally very useful in the right context depending upon tolerances and quantity intaken and there is also a strong dependence upon quality as well but suggesting that everyone should drink milk and OJ is probably a wrong idea. But just making a blanket statement "Oh drink a gallon of milk a day" is not a helpful statement and not useful for most people. Furthermore, milk and OJ may not even be appropriate for some people entirely, but that doesn't make what Ray said patently false either.

The only thing that matters is metabolism, and what foods improve or degrade it. That's the true Peat approach to diet. I agree though, after having been here 2+ years and learning a LOT from my own experiences, that most advice given, while trying to be helpful, isn't. Too much advice to take X or Y supplement, too much blanket statements to intake Z foods. Those are the trees/weeds. The forest is thinking through a metabolic lens. What improves your metabolism? Do that. Even if that food or method might slightly disagree with what seemingly are "peat approved foods or methods". Like you suggested, ask 10 people what their optimal diet, and all 10 will have slight differences, or even big differences in some cases. So, trying to design a specific diet to apply to all people everywhere always is pointless -- although I have some opinions that do point to universality, but I'm going to hold my tongue on this until I'm sure. However, what is definitely 100% universal and would apply to all 10, is the end-game goal - optimize metabolism.

This forum is definitely a jungle, and it's taken me over 2 yrs of sifting through all the opinions and ray peat's writings and marrying that with my own experiences, and I am still learning every day, but finally you do realize there is some truth to almost everything said here, but also lots of falsehoods , half truths, or even garbage that must be sifted out, to find the "jewels" (nuggets of truth).
 
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Jacob28

Jacob28

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People need to become their own detective. I didn't really start to make connections until I started really analyzing how foods, macros, calories, etc etc actually impact me from an objective viewpoint via generating correlations -> finding causations. I kept hiring coaches to do the detective work for me, and it's a waste of money and your time for the most part. You must, must becomes your OWN coach if you want long-term success and take charge of your own life and health. Your body is your own and the harsh truth is that no one cares about you more than you, not to mention that people other than you simply can't know how you feel or what is helpful to you.

I have found that most of what Peat said is true, but with many "conditions" and "limits" that are subtle, and must be discovered for yourself. For example - Milk and OJ are conditionally very useful in the right context depending upon tolerances and quantity intaken and there is also a strong dependence upon quality as well but suggesting that everyone should drink milk and OJ is probably a wrong idea. But just making a blanket statement "Oh drink a gallon of milk a day" is not a helpful statement and not useful for most people. Furthermore, milk and OJ may not even be appropriate for some people entirely, but that doesn't make what Ray said patently false either.

The only thing that matters is metabolism, and what foods improve or degrade it. That's the true Peat approach to diet. I agree though, after having been here 2+ years and learning a LOT from my own experiences, that most advice given, while trying to be helpful, isn't. Too much advice to take X or Y supplement, too much blanket statements to intake Z foods. Those are the trees/weeds. The forest is thinking through a metabolic lens. What improves your metabolism? Do that. Even if that food or method might slightly disagree with what seemingly are "peat approved foods or methods". Like you suggested, ask 10 people what their optimal diet, and all 10 will have slight differences, or even big differences in some cases. So, trying to design a specific diet to apply to all people everywhere always is pointless -- although I have some opinions that do point to universality, but I'm going to hold my tongue on this until I'm sure. However, what is definitely 100% universal and would apply to all 10, is the end-game goal - optimize metabolism.

This forum is definitely a jungle, and it's taken me over 2 yrs of sifting through all the opinions and ray peat's writings and marrying that with my own experiences, and I am still learning every day, but finally you do realize there is some truth to almost everything said here, but also lots of falsehoods , half truths, or even garbage that must be sifted out, to find the "jewels" (nuggets of truth).

You're so right but you said that you solved your health problems only partially? Or am I wrong

I know it's a very long, and I believe never-ending process of learning. I wasted so much money on the complete useless, or even harmful, or quite beneficial, if, if taking in right context, contitions. I was searching like a mad man, looking for some miraculous, magic supplement/ pill. I slowed down a bit now, but I'm quite demotivated because of all those bloody methods/ protocols/ supplements which just failed.

I got to the point, where I just don't know what to do, what to eat, what to take. Milk- not too much, because casein, those strange hormones etc. Gelatin gives me very smelly and painful gases, too much juices and milk gives me unquenchable thirst, that magical fructose gives me cramps and painful flatulence even in moderate amounts, glucose promotes insulin too much, which is ''tiring'' to pancreas, magical thyroid does nothing, pregnenolone nothing, B3 nothing special...
I'm at a dead end... I'm 21 and sometimes I feel like I'm 70 years old. Salt is hope for me, calcium too, but I'm incredibly tired and despondent.
 

Cirion

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You're so right but you said that you solved your health problems only partially? Or am I wrong

I know it's a very long, and I believe never-ending process of learning. I wasted so much money on the complete useless, or even harmful, or quite beneficial, if, if taking in right context, contitions. I was searching like a mad man, looking for some miraculous, magic supplement/ pill. I slowed down a bit now, but I'm quite demotivated because of all those bloody methods/ protocols/ supplements which just failed.

I got to the point, where I just don't know what to do, what to eat, what to take. Milk- not too much, because casein, those strange hormones etc. Gelatin gives me very smelly and painful gases, too much juices and milk gives me unquenchable thirst, that magical fructose gives me cramps and painful flatulence even in moderate amounts, glucose promotes insulin too much, which is ''tiring'' to pancreas, magical thyroid does nothing, pregnenolone nothing, B3 nothing special...
I'm at a dead end... I'm 21 and sometimes I feel like I'm 70 years old. Salt is hope for me, calcium too, but I'm incredibly tired and despondent.

Yes, I still have struggles, but every day is another day I have collected another data point -> more data = more plots, more correlations I can develop to finally get to the bottom of things. I think I may have finally figured out my problem, but because that's such a huge statement to say, I'm reserving judgment because it's way too early to say and until 100% sure & because I don't want to give people (myself included lol) false hopes. Gonna see how things go in the next few weeks or so.

It can be very demotivating, but I found it extremely empowering once I started collecting a lot of data and how I feel on a day to day basis based upon meticulous note taking. Eventually, you'll figure it out. That's my hope and I continue to chisel away day by day, every additional data piece I get, gets me closer to the heart of the problems.
 

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