Itching May Be Driven By Serotonin

haidut

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I have always wondered about this phenomenon and why it is that people with chronic conditions or depression seem to have a problem with excessive itching. It turns out that itching is closely related to pain and as such the release of serotonin. I already posted about the relationship between serotonin and pain in this thread.
Chronic Pain Disorder Is Mediated By Serotonin

So, rather than scratching your itch you may be better off reaching for the Benadryl or cyproheptadine.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/10/141030132957.htm
"...The findings, in mice, are reported online in the journal Neuron. The same vicious cycle of itching and scratching is thought to occur in humans, and the research provides new clues that may help break that cycle, particularly in people who experience chronic itching. Scientists have known for decades that scratching creates a mild amount of pain in the skin, said senior investigator Zhou-Feng Chen, PhD, director of Washington University's Center for the Study of Itch. That pain can interfere with itching -- at least temporarily -- by getting nerve cells in the spinal cord to carry pain signals to the brain instead of itch signals. "The problem is that when the brain gets those pain signals, it responds by producing the neurotransmitter serotonin to help control that pain," Chen explained. "But as serotonin spreads from the brain into the spinal cord, we found the chemical can 'jump the tracks,' moving from pain-sensing neurons to nerve cells that influence itch intensity."

"..."So this fits very well with the idea that itch and pain signals are transmitted through different but related pathways," said Chen, a professor of anesthesiology, of psychiatry and of developmental biology. "Scratching can relieve itch by creating minor pain. But when the body responds to pain signals, that response actually can make itching worse." Although interfering with serotonin made mice less sensitive to itch, Chen said it's not practical to try to treat itching by trying to block the release of serotonin."
 

milk_lover

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What about theanine or lysine? Cypro and Benadryl are obtained only by prescription in my country.
 
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haidut

haidut

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What about theanine or lysine? Cypro and Benadryl are obtained only by prescription in my country.

Sure, those should work. Aspirin also works wonders as it can decrease both serotonin and histamine. Vitamin B2 helps the degradation of serotonin so it should be able to help as well.
 

zooma

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I thought the mainstream view has long been that histamine is the issue, and given that histamine and serotonin often go together, isn't this consistent with that view?
 
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haidut

haidut

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I thought the mainstream view has long been that histamine is the issue, and given that histamine and serotonin often go together, isn't this consistent with that view?

I think the mainstream view has always been diagnosis by exclusion but definitely not serotonin/histamine as prime cause. So, first they will check for uremia and lymphoma since these are two major causes, then they will check for skin dryness, and then if nothing is available to support a specific diagnosis they will say the issue is either "overactive nervous system", or it is psychological. In both latter cases they will often prescribe SSRI, which would obviously make things worse.
 

aguilaroja

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Sure, those should work. Aspirin also works wonders as it can decrease both serotonin and histamine. Vitamin B2 helps the degradation of serotonin so it should be able to help as well.

Time to re-brand SolBan and co-market it as "Scratch-Ban" ?

Maybe, for the riboflavin, Energin can also be co-marketed as Energ-Skin.

:blush:
 
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haidut

haidut

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Time to re-brand SolBan and co-market it as "Scratch-Ban" ?

Maybe, for the riboflavin, Energin can also be co-marketed as Energ-Skin.

:blush:

Lol, all good suggestions :): If we end up using one I'll make sure I mentioned you gave the idea.
 

aguilaroja

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...itching is closely related to pain and as such the release of serotonin.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/10/141030132957.htm
...scratching creates a mild amount of pain in the skin,
...pain can interfere with itching -- at least temporarily
...as serotonin spreads from the brain into the spinal cord, we found the chemical can 'jump the tracks,' moving from pain-sensing neurons to nerve cells that influence itch intensity."
..."Although interfering with serotonin made mice less sensitive to itch, Chen said it's not practical to try to treat itching by trying to block the release of serotonin."

This study also implicates the 5-HTR7 serotonin "receptor" in itching:

HTR7 Mediates Serotonergic Acute and Chronic Itch. - PubMed - NCBI
Neuron. 2015 Jul 1;87(1):124-38. doi: 10.1016/j.neuron.2015.05.044. Epub 2015 Jun 11.
HTR7 Mediates Serotonergic Acute and Chronic Itch.
"acute itch triggered by serotonin or a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor required both HTR7 and TRPA1. Aberrant serotonin signaling has long been linked to a variety of human chronic itch conditions, including atopic dermatitis. In a mouse model of atopic dermatitis, mice lacking HTR7 or TRPA1 displayed reduced scratching and skin lesion severity."

Bromocriptine and lisuride are inactivating antagonists of 5-HTR7.
Other 5HTR7 antagonists include tricyclic anti-depressants (Amitriptylline, Imipramine) and "serins" (including Ketanserin). (I am not endorsing these agents specifically-they all have other effects that need accounting for).
 

nograde

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Cypro gives me itching on the legs/shins. Always :-( It's one of the reasons I can't do it longer than a few days. This, and the visual "flashes" when lying in bed with closed eyes. And the weight gain of course, hehe..
 
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haidut

haidut

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This study also implicates the 5-HTR7 serotonin "receptor" in itching:

HTR7 Mediates Serotonergic Acute and Chronic Itch. - PubMed - NCBI
Neuron. 2015 Jul 1;87(1):124-38. doi: 10.1016/j.neuron.2015.05.044. Epub 2015 Jun 11.
HTR7 Mediates Serotonergic Acute and Chronic Itch.
"acute itch triggered by serotonin or a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor required both HTR7 and TRPA1. Aberrant serotonin signaling has long been linked to a variety of human chronic itch conditions, including atopic dermatitis. In a mouse model of atopic dermatitis, mice lacking HTR7 or TRPA1 displayed reduced scratching and skin lesion severity."

Bromocriptine and lisuride are inactivating antagonists of 5-HTR7.
Other 5HTR7 antagonists include tricyclic anti-depressants (Amitriptylline, Imipramine) and "serins" (including Ketanserin). (I am not endorsing these agents specifically-they all have other effects that need accounting for).

Wow, thanks for this! So, given how Ray said cypro is very similar to amitriptylline structurally do you think cypro would also have an effect?
 

Makrosky

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Cypro gives me itching on the legs/shins. Always :-( It's one of the reasons I can't do it longer than a few days. This, and the visual "flashes" when lying in bed with closed eyes. And the weight gain of course, hehe..
Hi,

I get itchings (specially in legs) from cypro when I discontinue it. Never while I take it. Also a flu sensation. It lasts a couple of days only.
 

StrongMom

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How can we know if it is serotonin or a vitamin deficiency like vitamin a or zinc? I have unusual itchings in the last month or so and am a regular theanine user. At least in my case, theanine doesn't seem to help.
 

Ania

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I took DAO enzyme supplement. It helped greatly. Without it I wouldn't be able to quit. I had terrible hives whenever I skipped a pill. At that time I wasn't aware it was from zyrtec withdrawal. Now I've been four months without ceterizine (after 13 years of taking it). I still get itchy hives from time to time, but it's bearable. This kind of hives I had before i took any antihistamines, so maybe it will never pass in my case.
 

Pointless

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This thread makes me itch, like watching someone yawn and wanting to yawn with them. This thread is officially quarantined as serotonergic.
 

Regina

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I have always wondered about this phenomenon and why it is that people with chronic conditions or depression seem to have a problem with excessive itching. It turns out that itching is closely related to pain and as such the release of serotonin. I already posted about the relationship between serotonin and pain in this thread.
Chronic Pain Disorder Is Mediated By Serotonin

So, rather than scratching your itch you may be better off reaching for the Benadryl or cyproheptadine.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/10/141030132957.htm
"...The findings, in mice, are reported online in the journal Neuron. The same vicious cycle of itching and scratching is thought to occur in humans, and the research provides new clues that may help break that cycle, particularly in people who experience chronic itching. Scientists have known for decades that scratching creates a mild amount of pain in the skin, said senior investigator Zhou-Feng Chen, PhD, director of Washington University's Center for the Study of Itch. That pain can interfere with itching -- at least temporarily -- by getting nerve cells in the spinal cord to carry pain signals to the brain instead of itch signals. "The problem is that when the brain gets those pain signals, it responds by producing the neurotransmitter serotonin to help control that pain," Chen explained. "But as serotonin spreads from the brain into the spinal cord, we found the chemical can 'jump the tracks,' moving from pain-sensing neurons to nerve cells that influence itch intensity."

"..."So this fits very well with the idea that itch and pain signals are transmitted through different but related pathways," said Chen, a professor of anesthesiology, of psychiatry and of developmental biology. "Scratching can relieve itch by creating minor pain. But when the body responds to pain signals, that response actually can make itching worse." Although interfering with serotonin made mice less sensitive to itch, Chen said it's not practical to try to treat itching by trying to block the release of serotonin."

Oh dang,
I have developed into an itchy rat in the last few days. This rat has not been itchy in at least five or so years.
So I think it is something she is now taking. But, is it herx reaction or allergy?
Or ritanserin releasing serotonin? (I am only giving my rat 2 drops/day of ritanserin).
or perhaps the lapodin? I am near the end of the bottle and planned on ordering more.
The itching was pretty unbearable last night. All across the rat's belly and down her legs and arms. :confused:
It's a bummer since I want to continue with her on the quinones. Thank you.
 
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haidut

haidut

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Oh dang,
I have developed into an itchy rat in the last few days. This rat has not been itchy in at least five or so years.
So I think it is something she is now taking. But, is it herx reaction or allergy?
Or ritanserin releasing serotonin? (I am only giving my rat 2 drops/day of ritanserin).
or perhaps the lapodin? I am near the end of the bottle and planned on ordering more.
The itching was pretty unbearable last night. All across the rat's belly and down her legs and arms. :confused:
It's a bummer since I want to continue with her on the quinones. Thank you.

Not aware of ritanserin releasing serotonin. It actually has no effect on serotonin levels but simply blocks its effects. It's probably something you ate so I would try to isolate supplements/foods on alternate days to see which one may be causing it.
 

Regina

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Not aware of ritanserin releasing serotonin. It actually has no effect on serotonin levels but simply blocks its effects. It's probably something you ate so I would try to isolate supplements/foods on alternate days to see which one may be causing it.
Thanks so much Haidut,

The only allergy I know of for this rat is the cillins. She had a reaction to amoxicillin when she had her wisdom teeth out. The Dentist said to just stay away from 'cillans going forward. Would this idea carry forward possibly on to the cyclines? ( in that the quinones are related to them??).:problem:

Digestion is fine. Training is fine. Regards, r
 
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haidut

haidut

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Thanks so much Haidut,

The only allergy I know of for this rat is the cillins. She had a reaction to amoxicillin when she had her wisdom teeth out. The Dentist said to just stay away from 'cillans going forward. Would this idea carry forward possibly on to the cyclines? ( in that the quinones are related to them??).:problem:

Digestion is fine. Training is fine. Regards, r

The *cillins are different molecules even though they have some similarities with the *cyclines. But it is possible, some people allergic to one antibiotic cannot take any from a related class.
 

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