Israeli Men Are Highly Androgenic

[Grischbal]

What's androgenic about him? Because he has hair ? I don't see him as that androgenic

166 cm height and middle eastern. He probably has a smallish skull (in comparsion to average man) aswell and still manages to not look robust. The only "androgenic" thing I see here may be the wide and thin lips.
What helps his supposed "androgenicity" if he gets dwarfed in nearly all dimensions by your average european teen?

 

[Cloudhands]

Israelis train from a young age to be apart of the military. At 18 ALL of them join. Im jewish and went to some jewish summer camps growing up that would have israelis stay with us there, they ALL had like six packs and huge muscles and viewed americans as babys lol.

 

[MitchMitchell]

Today I learnt that military pressing close to 2x body weight is not a masculine feat of strength.

 

[Jing]

How much do you lift on the snatch and clean& press?

I don't know , don't do them exercises .

 

[TheBeard]

I think it may just be climate. The heat and strong sunshine would encourage people to evolve to have darker skin and more hair for protection from the elements. People from hot climates seem to be skewed towards lean and muscular.

Check out men in Dominican Republic they are muscular but not androgenic at all, in fact plenty of them are Guevedoces.
Although plenty of sunshine...

 

[TheBeard]

The problem with this is culture and variance in both men and women. What I think of as "masculine" could be starkly or highly different than what some others would.

The beard/Tom Selleck user ascribes hairiness and a particular "phenotype" to masculinity, whereas this guy posted here (the Olympian lifter) could be ridiculed if you, say, put his picture up on some specific "dark-pilled forums" many here probably know what I'm talking about. The guy might be called ugly/manlet, short, hairy/gross, short lower-third, "ethnic trash," etc., etc., etc. in some areas by some users. In some corners of the net "masculine" means only being tall with a square jaw and male-model face, low hairiness on the body, etc. whereas to others it just means being hairy and looking like you'd maybe give some the impression of being a good fight or such. I personally try not to care since my only concern when it comes to "ideal masculinity" would be one that I'd be comfortable in both mentally and physically I think, as might be the deal with most others. People tend to adopt particular mindsets of what 'X' or 'Y' is or should be, but often forget about everything else in the mix or what traits/aspects of the self can mean more broadly in the scope of health, energy and so on vs. just a calling card of one facet or another, ignoring the possible gap/explanations/overlaps between such.

I personally also do not think just being extremely hairy is something ideal, whether you want to call it "masculine" or "feminine." I have seen lots of girls/women with hairier arms than myself, but none of them certainly tend to come off as more "masculine" than me in overall appearance at least. If women can be hairy-ish but still be considered "feminine" overall I don't know what's to say a man being very hairy couldn't be in some way too "feminine" on some level (or a not very hairy man being "super-masculine"), if we want to use binaries like these as constructs to define overall structures of beings by themselves, i.e. "man hairy" and "woman not hairy."

Masculine = androgenic = the manlet I posted = Burt Raynolds = Chuck Norris = Tom Sellek...

The handsome / tall / square jaw models are the idea of masculinity soy boys or prebubescent teens have. They are a false ideal of masculinity.
In a fight or flight moment, these models would take the flight option.

 

[MitchMitchell]

That’s BS lol I’m 6’3 good looks good jaw you name it. I’ve grown up in trashy suburbs in Europe and then in Harlem with tons of tall square jaw attractive dudes who will definitely NOT take the flight option. It actually stresses me out to act civilized among “educated” people knowing where I’m from. Facing passive aggressive behavior from leftist PhD soyboys is frustrating yakno. Probably why I can be over aggressive online. Anyways.

My criteria for being Masculine comes from behavior though for sure. Equating a certain idea of good looks with behavior is stupid. I’ve also met enough pseudo manly man masculine looking guys who were total betas.

 

[MetabolicTrash]

How does whether or not one at or in various sets of circumstances depend on masculinity, based solely on taking fight or flight? Is this only a male issue anyways?

In one case a person (male or female) may take the fight option -- at other times (i.e. low energy, tiredness, you name it) a person may take the flight one if it's less costly. How can you expect someone to always take a certain option, regardless of the circumstances, as a sole defining factor in one's supposed "masculinity" or lack thereof as a whole? I guess to some people being "manly" just means a guy who fights a lot/looks like he could fight -- or has leathery skin and a high overhead press.

What makes, say, typical male models less androgenic? They're usually tall, broad, have tall or average height lower thirds, angular faces, low bodyfat, etc. -- all things usually associated with masculinity very much on the mark. I mean I don't care/try really to idolize or concern myself with any one particular look -- just curious how somebody would determine with some objectiveness on why Burt Reynolds or Chuck Norris count as "more masculine" than some random male model or etc. in a broader sense or in any sense at all.

Is the idea of masculinity just whether one immediately will take a fight on at any time, full on presto with combativeness? Let's see how "manly" one is when 20-30 people in a gang, possibly armed, want to confront you. I guess a "real man" would step up and get killed effortlessly rather than run away from something pointless and survive, right? Ultimately these discussions are pointless anyways since they're confined to some people's wet dreams on what constitutes their idolization of "man," "woman," or etc.

I mean with these kind of idolization-esque discussions I sometimes forget this isn't Lookism/max, Incels.co or bodybuilding/misc., 4chan threads/forums/etc.

 

[Grischbal]

on a fight and flight situation, the immense body hair would only be useful if the enemy tangles his fist in it. Besides that it seems like a Middle Eastern trait overall and maybe even a stress response if most of it is on the torso. The reaction itself may be androgenic, to grow thick coarse body hair

 

[retroactive]

In my experience, many Israeli men smoke - which is androgenic as there are aromatase inhibitors in tobacco. Also the ample sunlight is a plus.

 

[GelatinGoblin]

How does whether or not one at or in various sets of circumstances depend on masculinity, based solely on taking fight or flight? Is this only a male issue anyways?

In one case a person (male or female) may take the fight option -- at other times (i.e. low energy, tiredness, you name it) a person may take the flight one if it's less costly. How can you expect someone to always take a certain option, regardless of the circumstances, as a sole defining factor in one's supposed "masculinity" or lack thereof as a whole? I guess to some people being "manly" just means a guy who fights a lot/looks like he could fight -- or has leathery skin and a high overhead press.

What makes, say, typical male models less androgenic? They're usually tall, broad, have tall or average height lower thirds, angular faces, low bodyfat, etc. -- all things usually associated with masculinity very much on the mark. I mean I don't care/try really to idolize or concern myself with any one particular look -- just curious how somebody would determine with some objectiveness on why Burt Reynolds or Chuck Norris count as "more masculine" than some random male model or etc. in a broader sense or in any sense at all.

Is the idea of masculinity just whether one immediately will take a fight on at any time, full on presto with combativeness? Let's see how "manly" one is when 20-30 people in a gang, possibly armed, want to confront you. I guess a "real man" would step up and get killed effortlessly rather than run away from something pointless and survive, right? Ultimately these discussions are pointless anyways since they're confined to some people's wet dreams on what constitutes their idolization of "man," "woman," or etc.

I mean with these kind of idolization-esque discussions I sometimes forget this isn't Lookism/max, Incels.co or bodybuilding/misc., 4chan threads/forums/etc.

If I am walking around at night tired with my sunglasses which puts people off a bit but I want to do a night walk in the city without waking myself up, usually after a meal for digestion at the end of the day, I will avoid any confrontation and will take the passive approach if it does arise or not pay attention. Just avoiding the victim mentality too. Really a man is one who helps other instead of himself, there are a lot of aspects to "manliness" which are rarely discusses but you learn them. Not being tall attractive etc. , In general men aren't supposed to be beautiful. For actual European men look at the Russians. Gopniks, people mentally degraded from alcohol, Moscow citizens and occasional scum who kill homeless people or push old ladies of stairs to get their bag aside; those are men. Feminism or whatever really distorts the view of what it really means and a lot of men I see on the internet never quite mature. Not muscles or whatever. Just everything aside; humor is priceless and is a very valuable skill, looking out for others and others will notice, general confidence, drive in life, faith, being apathetic but sensible, not acting out of emotions... All of these things really help manliness
A lot of the Incels lack a father, have been bullied and have not gotten over it, are generally primitive and immature; some of them are really like girls in a male body crying over unfairness, a lot of them are dumb in general and have IQ in the lower percentiles. Some are pretty smart but overly sensitive, maybe too smart and develop neuroticism. They are not healthy people too, Hypothyroidism, PUFA etc. Too much internet, porn, video games too. Also living in a Looksit and amoral society like North America, or being non-masculine in masculine countries (Middle East, South Asia, South America, Spain...).

I have been in Incels circles when I was a bit younger, mostly on Lookism.net, which is where I discovered RPF and Ray Peat after a year and changed over time. Some of their social theories are applicable and some of their ideals do stand, I have learnt a bit on the world from those forums. I have learnt a lot about health there too. Interesting stuff. Learnt on RPF and on Lookism.net the basis of how people develop into being "ugly", really interesting stuff.

But health is obviously on the decline, so many teens nowadays are uglier then girls. Especially the whiter teens. I can go on on why this is but I don't know if anyone would be interested.
And so those Incels feel the effects of it socially and combined with poor health they never quite develop mentally. Some are really sick... I would never want to meet any off them. Natural selection will take its course so I don't have pity for those poor men. Some get out of it like I did though.
Just have good Thyroid function and you'll feel and look better. Also women don't like cold hands


It is an uncomfortable topic but I think my conclusion is to not think about them.

 

[GelatinGoblin]

In general, if you know violence you wouldn't want to participate in it. As Joe Rogan said, it should be mandatory to get punched in the face really hard at least once in your life time

 

[Grischbal]

I have been in Incels circles when I was a bit younger, mostly on Lookism.net, which is where I discovered RPF and Ray Peat after a year and changed over time. Some of their social theories are applicable and some of their ideals do stand, I have learnt a bit on the world from those forums. I have learnt a lot about health there too. Interesting stuff. Learnt on RPF and on Lookism.net the basis of how people develop into being "ugly", really interesting stuff.

While I do not doubt that Lookism.net and other such sites have their fair share of incels, it is still a place where people unite and in general acknowledge Lookism. Many do not even want to think about it or accept it, it takes a certain kind of self-reflexion and questioning the mainstream (allthough it has increased in popularity lately).
I would not doubt that those places would breed people who would follow many of Peats principles or atleast be open to it and choose it as their first "diet", in contrast to the people here who have done tons of different diets until finding Peat and the bioenergetic view.
Dr Peat is actually talked about in one of those forums periodically, or his ideas atleast

 

[High_Prob]

Masculine = androgenic = the manlet I posted = Burt Raynolds = Chuck Norris = Tom Sellek...

The handsome / tall / square jaw models are the idea of masculinity soy boys or prebubescent teens have. They are a false ideal of masculinity.
In a fight or flight moment, these models would take the flight option.

Here’s another one to add to your list, Hal Needham (Burt Reynold’s stunt double)...

 

[MitchMitchell]

What the heck is that lookism stuff? I’ve only read crap like TheRedPill and other obscure forums for a short bit in my life in 2016 when I moved from my hometown and my large groups of friends... was constantly getting banned because they were baffling me with their theories that have absolutely nothing to do with real life.

Don’t believe too many of those internet narratives, young folks.

 

[Broken man]

So I read whole thread and want to write my experience too. First, my measurement of androgenicity is mostly penis size... Penis has alot of androgen receptors and should be the best indicator of "androgen hormones". I am writting this for others to know that anabolic steroids are not as androgenic as DHT and even when it increases muscle mass its doing nothing for penis or other organs with alot of androgen receptors. I have few friends with bigger than average penis. How do I know? I am not gay but I am doing alot of sports and showers will show you..... The biggest misconception is about body hair or beard and androgenicity.. I dont know where it started that women saw men with beards more masculine or androgenic but the opposite is true. The guys with biggest dicks are almost without body hair and have no beards even at 27 years old +... hair on belly or arms or back is sign of stress hormones for sure... I was doing night shifts this year and I developed body hair on those places so I know for sure... Most of them are looking young and are very ripped naturally even eating fast foods and drinking alcohol. I was studying this for a while because I read article where scientists found that longer/bigger penis is evolutionary better. For me, I believe that if somebody wants to have good genes/ high androgenic profile, living at Brazil or Spain is the way how to do it. I would choose Spain, alot of sun, very good cuisine (cheap food with good quality) , pretty girls (very important reason to look good), only 4 hours of work if you want ( this is important because of low stress), easy acces to some drugs and great atmosphere, with the atmosphere I mean they like to dance and sing, love eating and socializing. For sure some people will write that you can see alot of fat spanish men, this is true but its much easier to get rid of that fat for them because they have good genetics, for man with average metabolism, you can get good results very easily. Some things that can help are pull ups, only exercise I am doing, you are using alot of muscles and the most important ones, all you need is to buy iron bar, next is vitamin K2 mk4, very important vitamin and one that is lacking now most often, caprylic acid and methyl palmitate for androgen receptors, Low dose naltrexone for good gut health, lactobacillus reuteri atcc 6475 for testicles......

 

[not_James_Bond]

So I read whole thread and want to write my experience too. First, my measurement of androgenicity is mostly penis size... Penis has alot of androgen receptors and should be the best indicator of "androgen hormones". I am writting this for others to know that anabolic steroids are not as androgenic as DHT and even when it increases muscle mass its doing nothing for penis or other organs with alot of androgen receptors. I have few friends with bigger than average penis. How do I know? I am not gay but I am doing alot of sports and showers will show you..... The biggest misconception is about body hair or beard and androgenicity.. I dont know where it started that women saw men with beards more masculine or androgenic but the opposite is true. The guys with biggest dicks are almost without body hair and have no beards even at 27 years old +... hair on belly or arms or back is sign of stress hormones for sure... I was doing night shifts this year and I developed body hair on those places so I know for sure... Most of them are looking young and are very ripped naturally even eating fast foods and drinking alcohol. I was studying this for a while because I read article where scientists found that longer/bigger penis is evolutionary better. For me, I believe that if somebody wants to have good genes/ high androgenic profile, living at Brazil or Spain is the way how to do it. I would choose Spain, alot of sun, very good cuisine (cheap food with good quality) , pretty girls (very important reason to look good), only 4 hours of work if you want ( this is important because of low stress), easy acces to some drugs and great atmosphere, with the atmosphere I mean they like to dance and sing, love eating and socializing. For sure some people will write that you can see alot of fat spanish men, this is true but its much easier to get rid of that fat for them because they have good genetics, for man with average metabolism, you can get good results very easily. Some things that can help are pull ups, only exercise I am doing, you are using alot of muscles and the most important ones, all you need is to buy iron bar, next is vitamin K2 mk4, very important vitamin and one that is lacking now most often, caprylic acid and methyl palmitate for androgen receptors, Low dose naltrexone for good gut health, lactobacillus reuteri atcc 6475 for testicles......

@Broken man What is your source of vitamin K2 mk4?, lactobacillus reuteri atcc 6475 for testicles, but you need large, large doses that commercially aren't available

 

[Broken man]

@Broken man What is your source of vitamin K2 mk4?, lactobacillus reuteri atcc 6475 for testicles, but you need large, large doses that commercially aren't available

I tried only few sources, Haidut´s Kuinone is the best product for me and I am buying it constantly. Most other products contain only small amount or are doing nothing....About probiotics, I am using their other product with Lactobacillus reuteri DM 17931, its not so good like atcc 6475 but better than nothing. I can feel even the 1 tablet but for better results, I am using few tablets to youghurt I am buying which is about 1 kg and the taste of the youghurt is much better. The one I am using is very cheap here. The one with atcc 6475 is not available here but is at Poland for even lower price. I am thinking about doing trip for some.

 

[TheBeard]

What the heck is that lookism stuff? I’ve only read crap like TheRedPill and other obscure forums for a short bit in my life in 2016 when I moved from my hometown and my large groups of friends... was constantly getting banned because they were baffling me with their theories that have absolutely nothing to do with real life.

Don’t believe too many of those internet narratives, young folks.

I never once read your pill forums and other lookism, I'm going off personal real life observations

 

[GelatinGoblin]

So I read whole thread and want to write my experience too. First, my measurement of androgenicity is mostly penis size... Penis has alot of androgen receptors and should be the best indicator of "androgen hormones". I am writting this for others to know that anabolic steroids are not as androgenic as DHT and even when it increases muscle mass its doing nothing for penis or other organs with alot of androgen receptors. I have few friends with bigger than average penis. How do I know? I am not gay but I am doing alot of sports and showers will show you..... The biggest misconception is about body hair or beard and androgenicity.. I dont know where it started that women saw men with beards more masculine or androgenic but the opposite is true. The guys with biggest dicks are almost without body hair and have no beards even at 27 years old +... hair on belly or arms or back is sign of stress hormones for sure... I was doing night shifts this year and I developed body hair on those places so I know for sure... Most of them are looking young and are very ripped naturally even eating fast foods and drinking alcohol. I was studying this for a while because I read article where scientists found that longer/bigger penis is evolutionary better. For me, I believe that if somebody wants to have good genes/ high androgenic profile, living at Brazil or Spain is the way how to do it. I would choose Spain, alot of sun, very good cuisine (cheap food with good quality) , pretty girls (very important reason to look good), only 4 hours of work if you want ( this is important because of low stress), easy acces to some drugs and great atmosphere, with the atmosphere I mean they like to dance and sing, love eating and socializing. For sure some people will write that you can see alot of fat spanish men, this is true but its much easier to get rid of that fat for them because they have good genetics, for man with average metabolism, you can get good results very easily. Some things that can help are pull ups, only exercise I am doing, you are using alot of muscles and the most important ones, all you need is to buy iron bar, next is vitamin K2 mk4, very important vitamin and one that is lacking now most often, caprylic acid and methyl palmitate for androgen receptors, Low dose naltrexone for good gut health, lactobacillus reuteri atcc 6475 for testicles......

False. I saw many ugly, unhealthy, skinny pale people with a big d*ck. They are not Androgenic