Is There Something Wrong About How We Get Vitamin D From Sunlight? I Suspect We Do It In a Very Unnatural Way

[yerrag]

At noontime, when the sun's out in full force, where there's not even a shadow as the sun is directly above, I would go out and get my fill of sunshine and the vitamin D benefits of it. This is usually where the UV index is highest, and where I get the most vitamin D produced in the shortest time. However, I feel alone in this. The koi in my pond wants little of it, as they prefer to be in the depths, sheltered from the harsh glare and trying to get protection with more algae shade protection the deeper it goes. My cats are nowhere to be found, and for most of the day, would rather be in the cooler shade. Even my aloe vera plants prefer to be facing south so that during summer it can hide under a shade as the sun shines from the north and spreads its rays of warmth to the periphery where the aloe vera lies. And during the cooler months, when the weaker sunlight hits the aloe vera directly, it is just as conducive to the growth of my aloe vera plants.

Even the trees know this. As during the heat of summer, it spreads its canopy with the lush growth of leaves, and during the cooler months, the canopy becomes exposed, as if to let more of the weak sun get through underneath.

As I spend most of the day inside the house, exposed to the sun in a very indirect way, inside a lanai that exposes me to the sun from three sides - thru screened windows and doors that lets in sun, unencumbered by glass, I would wonder all the time whether I am getting enough vitamin D. And this curiosity is never filled. Because I don't ever get to see a study ever made that addresses my curiosity. Always the studies are about direct sun exposure, and never about indirect sun exposure.

For surely, there is benefit to indirect sun exposure. For how come my aloe vera is thriving? How come my cats develop strong bones? So I would myself why do I need to see the full frontal assault from the sun? When I go to the fields where rice is planted in Vietnam, I would see that these farmers wear very wide brimmed hats, and they also don't get the full frontal.

I'm curious, why is there no study ever made that measures the effect of indirect sunlight? Why do the studies observe something that is to me unnatural?

Will some university or research institute come to their senses and please, please, do a study on the effect of indirect sun exposure and how much vitamin D can be generated this way? I am pretty sure it will be of use, right?

Nothing wrong about full frontal, as I suppose that is done in the serengeti of Africa by the many animals that roam there, but I'd like to know if we can be vitamin D healthy if we seek the comfort of shade and go about our day inside the comfort of that shade.

 

[NikT]

Based on vitamin D being processed by liver and kidneys, and Ray peat speaking of women in Mexico who had their arms and legs exposed all day working in the sun still were deficient, I think exposure to our lower torso & abdomen is most important and we can't overlook the fact that plants and animals are pretty much naked. Don't cats lick vitamin D from their hair?

Another interest:

Acquiring Vitamin D through your…eyes? – Crossroads Chiropractic

crossroadschiropractic.com

 

[TheBeard]

I suspect our livers are in a permanent state of quasi cholestasis and are unable to convert vitamin D to its active form.
Other beings most likely don't have this issue and can get away with less than optimal sunlight, whereas we don't and have to expose ourselves at the brightest hours to have even modest results.

Maybe I'm just extrapolating from my own personal case and everyone else's liver is fine.

 

[Riesensackteil]

When I am outside when the sun is the strongest, then I feel so heavy but at the same time disconnected from my body. Harder to move and I feel uncomfortable.
I prefer afternoon sun when it is still warm but slowly becoming more chilly

 

[pauljacob]

I read somewhere centuries ago that the optimal time to face the sun is at 2 p.m., when the sun rays enter the body at an angle. Usually my skin is white, but from the beginning of this month and during summer, my skin turns darker, just from getting exposed to the sun during daily routines like parking at Walmart, walking into the store, and then returning to my car. I live in Phoenix, and I suspect that everytime you're under the sun you get a big dose of it, regardless of how long you're exposed to it. And so I avoid the sun, mainly to avoid sun strokes and the dangers of Ozone which is serious in this state. What I usually do is go out half an hour before the sun sets, and bravely stare at the sun below the orb to get the benefits of Red light, which I know very little about, but have read here some who think it's very good.

 

[JohnHafterson]

I start low and ratchet up time as summer continues usually starting at about 12 minutes per side then ending up at about 25-30 minutes per side a few times a week.

The way I understand it the solar elevation needs to be above 50 using this calculator as general indicator of optimal conditions for Vitamin D production:

NOAA Solar Position Calculator

I live near Chicago so the sun and temperature are reasonable.

 

[OccamzRazer]

At noontime, when the sun's out in full force, where there's not even a shadow as the sun is directly above, I would go out and get my fill of sunshine and the vitamin D benefits of it. This is usually where the UV index is highest, and where I get the most vitamin D produced in the shortest time. However, I feel alone in this. The koi in my pond wants little of it, as they prefer to be in the depths, sheltered from the harsh glare and trying to get protection with more algae shade protection the deeper it goes. My cats are nowhere to be found, and for most of the day, would rather be in the cooler shade. Even my aloe vera plants prefer to be facing south so that during summer it can hide under a shade as the sun shines from the north and spreads its rays of warmth to the periphery where the aloe vera lies. And during the cooler months, when the weaker sunlight hits the aloe vera directly, it is just as conducive to the growth of my aloe vera plants.

Even the trees know this. As during the heat of summer, it spreads its canopy with the lush growth of leaves, and during the cooler months, the canopy becomes exposed, as if to let more of the weak sun get through underneath.

As I spend most of the day inside the house, exposed to the sun in a very indirect way, inside a lanai that exposes me to the sun from three sides - thru screened windows and doors that lets in sun, unencumbered by glass, I would wonder all the time whether I am getting enough vitamin D. And this curiosity is never filled. Because I don't ever get to see a study ever made that addresses my curiosity. Always the studies are about direct sun exposure, and never about indirect sun exposure.

For surely, there is benefit to indirect sun exposure. For how come my aloe vera is thriving? How come my cats develop strong bones? So I would myself why do I need to see the full frontal assault from the sun? When I go to the fields where rice is planted in Vietnam, I would see that these farmers wear very wide brimmed hats, and they also don't get the full frontal.

I'm curious, why is there no study ever made that measures the effect of indirect sunlight? Why do the studies observe something that is to me unnatural?

Will some university or research institute come to their senses and please, please, do a study on the effect of indirect sun exposure and how much vitamin D can be generated this way? I am pretty sure it will be of use, right?

Nothing wrong about full frontal, as I suppose that is done in the serengeti of Africa by the many animals that roam there, but I'd like to know if we can be vitamin D healthy if we seek the comfort of shade and go about our day inside the comfort of that shade.

Interesting thoughts!

I can't answer your question, but can offer another one:

Have you tried getting vitamin D via direct morning sunlight only - and then avoiding direct sun for the rest of the day?

 

[JohnHafterson]

This is a good book on the benefits of sunlight: Sunlight Could Change Your Life - Zane Kime MD.

It was written years ago hoaky/pufa but still generally a good read.

Free version:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://realrawfood.com/sites/default/files/book/Sunlight-Kime.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiB2ubF_NXwAhWIZM0KHTksDDcQFjACegQICBAC&usg=AOvVaw2JbldlV7anQNH9_nUp4O8o&cshid=1621435875365

Amazon:

Amazon product ASIN 0960426817View: https://www.amazon.com/Sunlight-Could-Save-Your-Life/dp/0960426817

 

[yerrag]

Based on vitamin D being processed by liver and kidneys, and Ray peat speaking of women in Mexico who had their arms and legs exposed all day working in the sun still were deficient, I think exposure to our lower torso & abdomen is most important and we can't overlook the fact that plants and animals are pretty much naked. Don't cats lick vitamin D from their hair?

Another interest:

Acquiring Vitamin D through your…eyes? – Crossroads Chiropractic

crossroadschiropractic.com

Interesting thoughts on the part of the body being exposed having an effect of the amount of endogenous vitamin D production. I wonder though if eating a lot of PUFA and having plenty of oxidized LDL would have a significant effect on vit D production. I recently read of a member mention that it was PUFA that causes sunlight exposure to produce skin cancer.

Thanks for the article on eye exposure to sunlight for vitamin D production. I have heard of that as well, to the effect that eye exposure has an outsize influence on vit D production. I have not read references that support this, but I am swayed by it.

I've heard of fishermen who ply the seas have excellent vision because they always look at far distances, but now I think more that the reason is due to their eyes being exposed to the sun often (although I would question whether there is risk of excess).

 

[charlie]

I think getting sunlight at sunrise is important to ready the body for the mid day sun so you can get maximum absorption of vitamin D.

'm curious, why is there no study ever made that measures the effect of indirect sunlight? Why do the studies observe something that is to me unnatural?

You can use the Dminder app as it has a sun strength meter built in so you can get an idea of how much vitamin D you will make in the shade. In the shade, you still make vitamin D but not nearly the amount you will make in direct sun.

 

[charlie]

I think getting sunlight at sunrise is important to ready the body for the mid day sun so you can get maximum absorption of vitamin D.

Just to add, with as least clothes as possible, if any.

 

[yerrag]

I suspect our livers are in a permanent state of quasi cholestasis and are unable to convert vitamin D to its active form.
Other beings most likely don't have this issue and can get away with less than optimal sunlight, whereas we don't and have to expose ourselves at the brightest hours to have even modest results.

Maybe I'm just extrapolating from my own personal case and everyone else's liver is fine.

I ought to get a Samsung Galaxy Note 4
(as it's the only phone I know that has a UV sensor) and hope there is an app that can use the UV sensor to allow me to measure the UV exposure I get in the shade.

Does our skin work off direct sunlight exposure the way solar panels do, or does our skin feed off photons regardless of whether it came directly or indirectly?

And what is the effect of being under the shade of a tree in the colors of spring, summer, and fall and do we get varying energy and mood effects from the wavelength of these colors? If we still get the benefits of vitamin D, would there be any distinction coming from the energy from the sun and the way the tree and its shade and it leaves modulate the energy?

As for conversion to the active form of vitamin D, I thought that it is a kidney function though, though I am not so sure now.

 

[charlie]

As for conversion to the active form of vitamin D, I thought that it is a kidney function though, though I am not so sure now.

It's kidney and liver that does the coversion.

 

[yerrag]

When I am outside when the sun is the strongest, then I feel so heavy but at the same time disconnected from my body. Harder to move and I feel uncomfortable.
I prefer afternoon sun when it is still warm but slowly becoming more chilly

That's the funny and maybe cruel part of getting sun-healthy. It seems to work on a no pain no gain principle. When you are exposed to the sun in a very comfortable way, as in early morning and towards the latter part of the afternoon, you get little or no vitamin D. If we base it on the idea that the bulk of vit D production from UV-B rays occur when the sun is above 50 degrees from the horizon.

 

[yerrag]

I read somewhere centuries ago that the optimal time to face the sun is at 2 p.m., when the sun rays enter the body at an angle. Usually my skin is white, but from the beginning of this month and during summer, my skin turns darker, just from getting exposed to the sun during daily routines like parking at Walmart, walking into the store, and then returning to my car. I live in Phoenix, and I suspect that everytime you're under the sun you get a big dose of it, regardless of how long you're exposed to it. And so I avoid the sun, mainly to avoid sun strokes and the dangers of Ozone which is serious in this state. What I usually do is go out half an hour before the sun sets, and bravely stare at the sun below the orb to get the benefits of Red light, which I know very little about, but have read here some who think it's very good.

Have you tried the Dminder App? It will tell you when you can get vit D and measure the amount of vit D you get. I doubt you will get any D near dusk.

 

[yerrag]

I start low and ratchet up time as summer continues usually starting at about 12 minutes per side then ending up at about 25-30 minutes per side a few times a week.

The way I understand it the solar elevation needs to be above 50 using this calculator as general indicator of optimal conditions for Vitamin D production:

NOAA Solar Position Calculator

I live near Chicago so the sun and temperature are reasonable.

NOAA is good to use. However, I get spoiled using the Dminder app.

 

[yerrag]

I think getting sunlight at sunrise is important to ready the body for the mid day sun so you can get maximum absorption of vitamin D.


You can use the Dminder app as it has a sun strength meter built in so you can get an idea of how much vitamin D you will make in the shade. In the shade, you still make vitamin D but not nearly the amount you will make in direct sun.

It's a good app, but it's vit D measurement is based on time zone, time, and bearing. It doesn't use a UV sensor, so unfortunately, it won't give me any indication of vit D production under the shade. I'm hoping I could measure that with an app that uses the UV sensor of a Galaxy Note 4.

 

[charlie]

It's a good app, but it's vit D measurement is based on time zone, time, and bearing. It doesn't use a UV sensor, so unfortunately, it won't give me any indication of vit D production under the shade. I'm hoping I could measure that with an app that uses the UV sensor of a Galaxy Note 4.

It will measure light intensity.

 

[yerrag]

Interesting thoughts!

I can't answer your question, but can offer another one:

Have you tried getting vitamin D via direct morning sunlight only - and then avoiding direct sun for the rest of the day?

Yes, I have. In the morning, the sunlight is less intense. Just have to make sure that the sun is high enough (above 50 degree from the horizon) to be able to get UV-B for vit D production.

 

[yerrag]

It will measure light intensity.

I don't think it bases it on light intensity the way a lux meter does. To approximate vit D production, the app needs to use a UV sensor and meter. I only know of one phone- the Note 4- that does that. I should get a used one and play with it.