Is There Anything Wrong With Combining Fruit And Meat?

gately

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A lot of people here seem to be thriving on combining fruit and meat together. I'm curious if anyone has ever seen any evidence that combining meat and fruit (or fruit juice) together in one meal is problematic? (Besides, obviously, not combining Vitamin C rich fruit with Iron rich meats, as per Peat.)

I ask this because Ayurvedic physicians, going back hundreds of years, specifically stated that meat and fruit shouldn't be eaten together, that fruit should be eaten alone. (They also said dairy should mostly be eaten alone, though exceptions were made for very sweet fruits like dates.)

I see a lot of wisdom in the Ayurvedic tradition, with many parallels to Ray Peat's own theories, so I'm curious is anyone has run into problems with fruit / meat combo, or if there is any scientific evidence suggesting this combo is a hazard to health.

Thanks!
 
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lvysaur

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I'm a big believer in the Ayurvedic tradition of Sattvic foods. The Sattvic/Rajasic/Tamasic trinity describes almost to a T my perceived "heaviness" of a food, as well as my reactions to it afterward.

But fruit/meat is one of the best combinations I can think of. A combo that doesn't work well for me is starch + milk, although lentils + milk seems to be okay. Potatoes + milk is just really bad for some reason.

I can't think of a pair of food that goes together better than meat and fruit. I'll even avoid starch altogether with a meat meal, and then eat fruit right afterwards as a fiber + palate cleanser + carb.

I also think that some Ayurvedic things are politically motivated, interwoven in with the more neutral observational stuff. I noticed this in the S/R/T classifications, most websites would say that "all meat is Tamasic and should be avoided", while a few said "red meat is Tamasic and white meat is Rajasic", which sounds much closer to the truth.
 

gately

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I'm a big believer in the Ayurvedic tradition of Sattvic foods. The Sattvic/Rajasic/Tamasic trinity describes almost to a T my perceived "heaviness" of a food, as well as my reactions to it afterward.

But fruit/meat is one of the best combinations I can think of. A combo that doesn't work well for me is starch + milk, although lentils + milk seems to be okay. Potatoes + milk is just really bad for some reason.

I can't think of a pair of food that goes together better than meat and fruit. I'll even avoid starch altogether with a meat meal, and then eat fruit right afterwards as a fiber + palate cleanser + carb.

I also think that some Ayurvedic things are politically motivated, interwoven in with the more neutral observational stuff. I noticed this in the S/R/T classifications, most websites would say that "all meat is Tamasic and should be avoided", while a few said "red meat is Tamasic and white meat is Rajasic", which sounds much closer to the truth.

It really does appear fruit and meat go well together for a lot people.

I agree there are serious problems with modern Ayurveda. Like modern Chinese Medicine, it has lost it's efficacy over time due to massive political and cultural changes over the centuries and the result has been the blind leading the blind. (Lots of improved diagnostic pulses, lots of patients who are still sick.) Almost no one is practicing authentic traditional medicine anymore, even within their origin countries. For instance, I think the whole "meat being Tamasic" thing is utter BS. Some of the first Sanskrit writings on Ayurveda recommended meat, especially fresh wild boar if I recall, as wholesome foods. Hinduism has had many intense religious reformations over the centuries, particularly in the popular Vaishnava traditions, and I'm guessing some religious zealot started the whole 'all meat is tamasic' thing.

Also, I think it's pretty self-evident from some of the long term carnivores, who have eaten nothing but literal Beef for decades, that their mind isn't Tamasic. They all seem Rajastic and full of desire, drive, and enthusiasm. If anything, some of them seem borderline Sattvic in their personality.

Either way, nearly all the highly realized meditators I know (from any tradition) eventually had to eat meat for their declining health.

But back on topic: Perhaps the meat and fruit being a bad combo according to Ayurveda is another one of these modern BS Ayurveda myths with no basis in reality. But I am still suspicious.

I do think the similar Ayurvedic injunction over not combining milk and meat is likely warranted, but I have no science to back that up, just a deep seated bias.

Thank you for your thoughts!
 

Aymen

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I'm a big believer in the Ayurvedic tradition of Sattvic foods. The Sattvic/Rajasic/Tamasic trinity describes almost to a T my perceived "heaviness" of a food, as well as my reactions to it afterward.

But fruit/meat is one of the best combinations I can think of. A combo that doesn't work well for me is starch + milk, although lentils + milk seems to be okay. Potatoes + milk is just really bad for some reason.

I can't think of a pair of food that goes together better than meat and fruit. I'll even avoid starch altogether with a meat meal, and then eat fruit right afterwards as a fiber + palate cleanser + carb.

I also think that some Ayurvedic things are politically motivated, interwoven in with the more neutral observational stuff. I noticed this in the S/R/T classifications, most websites would say that "all meat is Tamasic and should be avoided", while a few said "red meat is Tamasic and white meat is Rajasic", which sounds much closer to the truth.
fruits and milk combination is great too, i agree with you that some starch and dairy/milk combination doesn't mix, if i had to eat starch i will eat a little butter with it but not milk, combining meat and starch is a great way to spike insulin and cortisol, what do you think about eating starch with fruits?
 

gately

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I’m curious if anyone has asked Peat exactly what he eats in a day. I’ve seen lists of what he eats, but nothing in terms of how he combines foods for meals.

Also, it isn’t just Ayurveda that proselytizes the whole “Don’t eat fruit with meat” thing, the whole Natural Hygiene / Food Combining movement is pretty hardcore on this stance as well. A lot of people swear by that WOE, however problematic their diet may be from a Peat perspective.
 

boris

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As far as combinations go he reccomends fruit and meat.

Specific food combinations he eats that I recall:
-Egg with a pint of orange juice
-Liver with mushrooms

He says it‘s best when all meals are balanced. Carbs with protein and small amount of fat so I imagine that‘s what he practices.
 

Hugh Johnson

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Fruit and medium rare beef liver makes me feel great. I just need a glycine and calcium source to deal with the phosphate and methionine.

I could not care less about iron. I'll just donate blood to get rid of the excess.
 

ExCarniv

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combining meat and starch is a great way to spike insulin and cortisol,

For people who are very sick probably, for the rest of humans is totally fine to eat starch and meats.

Entire civilizations evolved combining beef or pork and tubers, fish and rice, bread and eggs/milk.

Not so much eating fruits year round and meats.
 

Aymen

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For people who are very sick probably, for the rest of humans is totally fine to eat starch and meats.

Entire civilizations evolved combining beef or pork and tubers, fish and rice, bread and eggs/milk.

Not so much eating fruits year round and meats.
i never felt good eating a meal with for example 2 cups of white rice and 200g of ground beef at once, but if i eat 100g of dates with 200g of meat i feel good, i notice the insulin response fast when i eat a large meal of high protein and high starch but if i divided it into small meals it would be okay.
 

ExCarniv

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i never felt good eating a meal with for example 2 cups of white rice and 200g of ground beef at once, but if i eat 100g of dates with 200g of meat i feel good, i notice the insulin response fast when i eat a large meal of high protein and high starch but if i divided it into small meals it would be okay.


That's true, large meals lead to insulin response, no matter what you eat, I remember eating 2 pounds of steak in one meal and needed to take an 1h nap afterwards.

I only eat large meals after intense workouts, but besides that I eat like 500/600 calories meals thru the day and have steady energy flowing, even eating starch.
 
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I ask this because Ayurvedic physicians, going back hundreds of years, specifically stated that meat and fruit shouldn't be eaten together, that fruit should be eaten alone. (They also said dairy should mostly be eaten alone, though exceptions were made for very sweet fruits like dates.)

Now you go and ask those "physicians" what exactly they mean by fruit. And then ask what they mean by veggies. You will be surprised how many actual fruits they call veggies and vice versa. Another thing that what exactly have been called fruits and veggies in Sanskrit ayurveda texts is totally different from modern fruits and veggies in India. Modern India consumes mostly non native veggies and fruits species like tomato, bell pepper, chilies, onions, green beans, potato, cauliflower, okra and others.
Vedic cuisine is gone. What they do call now vedic could be called neo-vedic at best.

PS I'm a big fan of Indian cuisine.
 

lvysaur

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For instance, I think the whole "meat being Tamasic" thing is utter BS. Some of the first Sanskrit writings on Ayurveda recommended meat, especially fresh wild boar
Well, red meat is still Tamasic. Tamasic doesn't mean "bad" though. It just means something your diet shouldn't be based on. Which is true, you shouldn't be eating red muscle meat for every meal, or even every day.

Whiter meats and especially fish are clearly Rajasic, they're not heavy and overly filling in the same way. There's a spectrum of heaviness of animal proteins, going from eggs-fish-chicken-pork-beef.

I do think the similar Ayurvedic injunction over not combining milk and meat is likely warranted

Literally nobody wants to drink a glass of milk after eating a steak. Or vice versa.

fruits and milk combination is great too, i agree with you that some starch and dairy/milk combination doesn't mix, if i had to eat starch i will eat a little butter with it but not milk, combining meat and starch is a great way to spike insulin and cortisol, what do you think about eating starch with fruits?

Fruit and milk is also good, yes. Even acidic fruit is okay for me. Meat and starch and milk (all 3 at same meal) I can handle when fasting for some reason, but not otherwise. Starch with fruits feels weird but I don't get any obviously bad symptoms from it.

Another bad one for me is fat with milk. I've noticed this happening very persistently: when I eat a high fat food with milk, the milk loses its sweet taste. This doesn't happen if I eat a fat-free sugar cookie, so it's not my tastebuds. This includes ice cream as well obviously.
 
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Ania

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I have been on diet of meet, fish, seafood, eggs and fruits for over 18 months now. Some beef tallow and cocoa butter for fat. That is all I eat. I just can't eat anything else, because otherwise I get my rheumatoid arthritis symptoms return. I love this diet. It feels great. I don't even crave other foods anymore. It is restrictive, but excruciating pain restricts you far more and excludes from life. My labs are perfect, maybe except iron which is in high end of norm, but I choose life without pain.
 

ExCarniv

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When I don't want to cook I just throw a piece of protein (fish, beef, eggs) in that pan and grab 100-200g of dates and I feel good afterwards eating that, but most of the time I need potatoes or rice with it
 

tankasnowgod

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(Besides, obviously, not combining Vitamin C rich fruit with Iron rich meats, as per Peat.)

I don't even think that's an issue. Vitamin C has only been shown to increase absorption of added iron, it has no effect on heme iron. I posted a long term study a while ago that instructed people to take take 1 gram of C with their 2 biggest meals of the day for 16 weeks, and there was no clear effect on ferritin. Some increased a bit, many stayed the same, and those with the highest starting ferritin actually saw a dramatic decrease from taking Vitamin C with meals.
 
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