Is There Any Way To Lower Iron Without Donating Blood?

Mittir

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Such_Saturation said:
I think iron in liver is mostly "elemental" which is less dangerous and more easily blockable.

I believe you meant non-heme iron. Liver has about 13 percent heme and rest is
non-heme. I asked RP about it, there is a response in email advice section.
Non-heme iron is blocked by coffee but not the heme part. But, the absorption
of iron is increased when it is eaten with protein, which increases acid secretion.
Calcium blocks both heme and non-heme iron upto a certain intake.
Heme iron absorption is quite high,muscle meat has about 65 percent heme.
There are studies that measured iron level on very low non animal iron source and
on dairy based diet. It has to be really low to deplete iron storage.
 
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jyb said:
Absorption of dietary iron in iron salt form (as in most supplements) varies somewhat according to the body's need for iron, and is usually between 10% and 20% of iron intake. Absorption of iron from animal products, and some plant products, is in the form of heme iron, and is more efficient, allowing absorption of from 15% to 35% of intake. Heme iron in animals is from blood and heme containing proteins in meat and mitochondria, whereas in plants, heme iron is present in mitochondria in all cells that use oxygen for respiration.

Like most mineral nutrients, the majority of the iron absorbed from digested food or supplements is absorbed in the duodenum by enterocytes of the duodenal lining. These cells have special molecules that allow them to move iron into the body. To be absorbed, dietary iron can be absorbed as part of a protein such as heme protein or iron must be in its ferrous Fe2+ form. A ferric reductase enzyme on the enterocytes' brush border, Duodenal cytochrome B (Dcytb), reduces ferric Fe3+ to Fe2+[6] A protein called divalent metal transporter 1 (DMT1), which transports all kinds of divalent metals into the body, then transports the iron across the enterocyte's cell membrane into the cell.

These intestinal lining cells can then either store the iron as ferritin, which is accomplished by Fe3+ binding to apoferritin (in which case the iron will leave the body when the cell dies and is sloughed off into feces) or the cell can move it into the body, using a protein called ferroportin. The body regulates iron levels by regulating each of these steps. For instance, cells produce more Dcytb, DMT1 and ferroportin in response to iron deficiency anemia.[7]

So what you say should be true and also, things like coffee can't block bind heme iron at all. Milk should block it in some amount, however.
 

jyb

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Mittir said:
Such_Saturation said:
I think iron in liver is mostly "elemental" which is less dangerous and more easily blockable.

I believe you meant non-heme iron. Liver has about 13 percent heme and rest is
non-heme. I asked RP about it, there is a response in email advice section.
Non-heme iron is blocked by coffee but not the heme part. But, the absorption
of iron is increased when it is eaten with protein, which increases acid secretion.
Calcium blocks both heme and non-heme iron upto a certain intake.
Heme iron absorption is quite high,muscle meat has about 65 percent heme.
There are studies that measured iron level on very low non animal iron source and
on dairy based diet. It has to be really low to deplete iron storage.

"blocked by coffee" you mean some reduction (30% less?), I think.
 
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jyb said:
Mittir said:
Such_Saturation said:
I think iron in liver is mostly "elemental" which is less dangerous and more easily blockable.

I believe you meant non-heme iron. Liver has about 13 percent heme and rest is
non-heme. I asked RP about it, there is a response in email advice section.
Non-heme iron is blocked by coffee but not the heme part. But, the absorption
of iron is increased when it is eaten with protein, which increases acid secretion.
Calcium blocks both heme and non-heme iron upto a certain intake.
Heme iron absorption is quite high,muscle meat has about 65 percent heme.
There are studies that measured iron level on very low non animal iron source and
on dairy based diet. It has to be really low to deplete iron storage.

"blocked by coffee" you mean some reduction (30% less?), I think.

Coffee should be good for half of ferrous I think. So, 17.5% less iron absorption from a 65% heme steak.
 

charlie

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Daimyo, yes it has been mentioned before.
 

Steffi

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I loved donating. Went regularly every 6 weeks biking home from university and getting 40 bucks for a donation. Sometimes I also gave it for free when in a different location - but definitely didn't like that part. Someone is making huge money with it.

Anyway, I did it because I felt awesome afterwards for days. I felt relieved, light, clean, cool, motivated and energetic - although I did notice breathing was heavier at exercise and maximum performance was impaired for a while. Never fainted or felt even dizzy, always tried to sneak out back on the bike before my 20min rest period was over. For the rest of the day I felt a bit euphoric. My Hb was never very high.

Now I'm hypo and wondering if maybe that played a role. Haven't done it in a while, Maybe should try again.
 

charlie

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I feel better when continually donating also. Wish there was a place around me I could make money with it. :lol: But its around a 1.5 hour ride to one of those places so I just donate to the red cross when they roll through town every 2 months.
 
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I hear they sell them for a lot more than forty dollars.
 

lindsay

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This is something I've been wondering about - donating. They never let me back in the day because I've always been borderline anemic (the low B12 anemia). I think I should be better now that I changed my diet, am no longer playing sports and take thyroid. But I didn't know I could get paid for donating my blood.....

On a side note, you can donate blood to yourself - like a blood bank for an emergency if you have one. Do you lose a lot of blood when you have a surgery? If so, I should be fine for a bit longer - I just had surgery at the beginning of September.
 

Luann

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Non animal sources seem richer sources of iron. Chocolate, enriched flours... though the iron form and absorption rate is different, need to take that into account.
Some of my worst headaches were as a vegetarian, eating mostly beans for protein and carb, that's just anecdotal, but you're probably right
 

moringa

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In the book of Lita LEE (The Enzyme Cure) To lower the Iron level, you can donating blood or undergoing Oral Chelation Therapy ( to " bind up " the iron for elimination from the body) may helpbring them down. The safest method of Oral Chelation is Sodium Succinate capsules; a typical dose is 200-250 mg, twice daily for two weeks twicw yearly, depending on blood test results.

Hi Ismena.D,
Where can we buy Sodium Succinate capsules? Does the timing of the capsules matter(e.g. on empty stomach, or with a meal)?
Where did you read about this info?
Thank you
 

Nighteyes

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I dont think this has been suggested before, but what about making small cuts on the body to prompt controlled bleeding? If one were to use a very sharp knife and do it in inconspicuous places, scarring would not be the biggest issue? This would allow a small amount to be removed regularly rather than the relatively high doses removed when donating blood. I have problems with dehydration and low blood volume so I am not to keen on donating ½ or 1 L at a time.

This might also mimmick a more natural way of losing blood/iron from bruises.

I dont know... maybe it is a crazy suggestion.. Definitely not gonna mention this idea to my doctor who already thinks my ferritin of 360 is normal. I wonder why my local lab ranges "normal ferritin" from 15-560. Such a broad spectrum. They wont even consider iron problems if results within this range. They even denied giving me a full iron panel! (healthcare system fail ftw)
 

LuMonty

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I dont think this has been suggested before, but what about making small cuts on the body to prompt controlled bleeding? If one were to use a very sharp knife and do it in inconspicuous places, scarring would not be the biggest issue? This would allow a small amount to be removed regularly rather than the relatively high doses removed when donating blood. I have problems with dehydration and low blood volume so I am not to keen on donating ½ or 1 L at a time.

This might also mimmick a more natural way of losing blood/iron from bruises.

I dont know... maybe it is a crazy suggestion.. Definitely not gonna mention this idea to my doctor who already thinks my ferritin of 360 is normal. I wonder why my local lab ranges "normal ferritin" from 15-560. Such a broad spectrum. They wont even consider iron problems if results within this range. They even denied giving me a full iron panel! (healthcare system fail ftw)

The establishment failure is palpable. My previous doctor would rarely test me for anything, would refuse a full panel unless I was forceful, and then refused to interpret the results. It got to the point that the lab technicians knew I'd ask and they'd help me out as for as what a normal range actually is, nothing diagnostic.

More to iron removal, what was easiest on me aside from giving blood was use of cilantro and coriander. Unfortunately that was during a time when I wasn't in a position to get testing done so the exact effect remains elusive. Aspirin caused bleeding problems. I understand your hesitance to donate large amounts of blood, so if you were to go ahead with your methods I would consider how to sterilize and know exactly what to do to control the method. I wouldn't personally endorse it, mainly because I'm chicken, but it's the same principle as a donation so in theory it the end result would be the same according to degree.
 

Nighteyes

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Yeah, honestly I am a little confused why the doctor does not think that a ferritin of 360 is worth looking further into. I just get the impression from this forum and elsewhere this a ferritin this high is not optimal? I got inflamation markers tested at the same time and these were normal... Is there ever a case where ferriting in the 300's is a normal/positive thing? The doctor made it out to be some kind of really good sign and I should just be happy that I did not have anemia... Maybe there are just so many people with ferritin this high that it is considered normal?

I havent tried cutting myself anywhere yet... Just doesnt seem right. Will probably just donate blood next week (already have made an appointment) and see how I feel. I am pretty anxious about it though, so might cancel. Even just getting extensive bloodwork done in the past (6 small flasks) had an affect that I could feel (lethargy and brain fog). I am not scared of needles or blood at all so that is not it. I really wish one could decide how much they take.
 

Nighteyes

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The establishment failure is palpable. My previous doctor would rarely test me for anything, would refuse a full panel unless I was forceful, and then refused to interpret the results. It got to the point that the lab technicians knew I'd ask and they'd help me out as for as what a normal range actually is, nothing diagnostic.

More to iron removal, what was easiest on me aside from giving blood was use of cilantro and coriander. Unfortunately that was during a time when I wasn't in a position to get testing done so the exact effect remains elusive. Aspirin caused bleeding problems. I understand your hesitance to donate large amounts of blood, so if you were to go ahead with your methods I would consider how to sterilize and know exactly what to do to control the method. I wouldn't personally endorse it, mainly because I'm chicken, but it's the same principle as a donation so in theory it the end result would be the same according to degree.

Btw, thanks for your input!
 

Nighteyes

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@tankasnowgod Do you know why the normal range for ferritin would go all the way up to over 500? And is 360 highly likely to be too high? Is it possible to have it this high and not be iron overloaded/liver damage etc? Maybe I am missing something but everyone here seems to think <100 is best. Maybe it is just a case of the lab setting the value based on many sick people?
 

LuMonty

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Btw, thanks for your input!
You're welcome! My ferritin has ranged from double digits to around 200. The only times I had bad symptoms that could be connected was when I lacked cofactors for proper iron use. When I have liver, OJ, and dark chocolate I end up with firm but not brittle nails, better hair, sleep, etc. Usually end up 180-220, but rarely got sick. When I didn't have proper nutrition, even if my health should have been great, I ended up with bone pain, persistent infections, and soreness regardless of score. Personally, I watch my iron according to these symptoms and never get tested anymore. My guess is because the form that is stored poorly is the kind most easily hijacked by bacteria. If you get the chance to donate blood, I'll be following this thread to see how you're doing.
 

tankasnowgod

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@tankasnowgod Do you know why the normal range for ferritin would go all the way up to over 500? And is 360 highly likely to be too high? Is it possible to have it this high and not be iron overloaded/liver damage etc? Maybe I am missing something but everyone here seems to think <100 is best. Maybe it is just a case of the lab setting the value based on many sick people?

Apparently, all lab ranges have been devised by a survey of the general public. 500 or over would mean it increased yet again. Normal used to be around 20-300, I think it increased up to 400 for men. Different labs can use different ranges, so that could account for the difference as well.

Under 100 is what was found on the Zacharsky RCTs for lowering the incidence of heart disease and cancer. I think it was around 80 where there was a dramatic incidence of those diseases. In the trial, they were actually aiming for near deficiency (about 25), but didn't achieve that number, and yet still found a dramatic fall of those diseases. That's the basis of the 25-75 target range.
 

Nighteyes

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You're welcome! My ferritin has ranged from double digits to around 200. The only times I had bad symptoms that could be connected was when I lacked cofactors for proper iron use. When I have liver, OJ, and dark chocolate I end up with firm but not brittle nails, better hair, sleep, etc. Usually end up 180-220, but rarely got sick. When I didn't have proper nutrition, even if my health should have been great, I ended up with bone pain, persistent infections, and soreness regardless of score. Personally, I watch my iron according to these symptoms and never get tested anymore. My guess is because the form that is stored poorly is the kind most easily hijacked by bacteria. If you get the chance to donate blood, I'll be following this thread to see how you're doing.

I went ahead and donated blood since I could not come up with any way of bleeding myself out in a coltrolled manner :P It was not bad at all and I hardly even felt it afterward. I was more tired than usual for the rest of the day but no other negatives as far as I can tell. I plan on going once every 2.5 months or so and try if I can convince my doctor to do regular tests for ferritin.
I have upped my intake of dark chocolate as well and it is sitting well with me. Thanks for your input in all this. I really think the easiest way to manage iron is simply regular blood draws..
 

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