Is The United States Over?

4peatssake

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“More than 50 years ago, I realized that the US culture had become effectively totalitarian, with decorations, and even the decorations were being fixed by the specialists (the Congress for Cultural Freedom, for example). I went through a series of graduate studies and projects looking for places where reality could influence the culture, rather than being obliterated by it. The academic culture, though, was rapidly changing for the worse. Over a period of a few years I happened to see a few people recover immediately from what doctors had considered incurable problems, using simple and inexpensive methods, and then I realized that some people were willing to discard their old ideas when those conflicted with useful facts, especially when the useful facts could save their life. I started doing evening and weekend classes in nutrition and endocrinology, seeing health as a way to get reality into the culture. My newsletter grew out of the classes, and that led to answering mail, which is cheaper and easier on the internet.”
— Ray Peat

Less "political" per se, but still pointing to "establishment."

“Knowledge isn’t a commodity, especially not a fungible commodity, as the medical business sees it. Consciousness and culture are part of the life process. It is exactly the commoditization of medical knowledge that makes it dangerous, and generally stupid. Doctors buy their knowledge, and then resell it over and over; it’s valuable as a commodity, so its value has to be protected by the equivalent of a copyright, the system of laws establishing the profession. Without its special status, its worthlessness would be quickly demonstrated. When A.C. Guyton wrote his textbook of medical physiology (the most widely used text in the world) in the 1950s, it was trash; as it was studied and applied by generations of physicians, it was still trash. The most compliant patients who bought their treatment from the most authoritative, Guytonesque, doctors were buying their own disability and death. Each time you learn something, your consciousness becomes something different, and the questions you ask will be different; you don’t know what the next appropriate question will be when you haven’t assimilated the earlier answers. Until you see something as the answer to an urgent question, you can’t see that it has any value. The unexpected can’t be a commodity. When people buy professional knowledge they get what they pay for, a commodity in a system that sustains ignorance. ”
— Ray Peat

Land of the Free and Home of the Brave? :roll:

Blake College was a school that you started in Mexico. What were your objectives in creating it?

When I was teaching “Introduction to physics for biology majors” at Urbana College, the president of the school, Ralph Gauvey, said the goal of such courses should be to enable students to read and evaluate current newspaper and magazine articles related to the subject. At that time, the question of the biological effects of radiation from the fallout from atomic bomb tests was constantly in the news, so I devoted part of the course to the effects of radiation on cells, and suggested that students consider the authors’ affiliations. It was clear that people who worked for the Atomic Energy Commission, such as John Gofman, never acknowledged that there was evidence of harm from fallout, and that physicists or biologists who suggested that it could be dangerous were always independent. In the few instances in which a government employee described harmful effects from the radioactive isotopes in the bomb fallout, that person immediately lost his job, and was defamed by announcements that he had been fired for reasons of bad character or subversive associations. I was aware that professors with research support from the government were unable to criticize the atmospheric bomb tests if they wanted to keep their jobs, but since Urbana was a tiny independent church affiliated school, and I was simply following Gauvey’s instruction, I didn’t consider my little course to be very controversial. Usually, when a college plans to fire a person, they let them know by early spring, so they can make other arrangements for the fall.

In the spring of 1960, it was mentioned at a faculty meeting that a biology professor from the University of Illinois, Leo Koch, would be giving a lecture at Urbana, but the topic wasn’t announced. He chose to lecture about the dangers of radiation. He began his talk by holding up his wrist, and observed that he had stopped wearing his watch, since he had become aware of the danger of its radioactive dial. During the lecture he made a favorable comment about my course, and emphasized the great harm being produced by the bomb tests.

I think it was just after his lecture in Urbana when Koch’s name appeared in the newspapers, because of a scandal that had been created when the John Birch society contacted the university trustees about a letter he had written to the student newspaper, in response to an article that had condemned student “petting parties.” The Birch Society had been aware of Koch’s antinuclear activism for some time, but his letter gave them an excuse for attacking his immoral and unchristian character. Gauvey sent Koch a letter saying that it would be impossible to offer him the job (which I would be vacating, I learned a little later) because of the scandal, and then the Illinois president fired him. Realizing that small-minded trustees are always going to be opposed to free investigation and teaching, I immediately started working toward creating a student and teacher controlled college. Leo Koch didn’t have a job, and was in demand around the country as a speaker about academic freedom, and he spread the word about the kind of school we wanted to start.

Game Over Everywhere!
 
J

j.

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I think the dollar is in a lot greater danger than the United States. It's conceivable that the dollar collapses and the country recovers in a short amount of time. The dollar will collapse just because printing money decreases its value, and the U.S. has been off a gold standard since 71, more than 40 years.
 

burtlancast

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If anyone wants to understand why there's a financial crisis and what are the solutions to get out of it, he needs to read " The creature from Jekyll Island" by Edward Griffin.

It's a 600 pages book, but it's an example of clarity about the financial system, and quite enjoyable to read.

Beware of Bill Still's " The money masters", who pushes for more fiat money ( non solution).
 

pboy

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Jan 22, 2013
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We are actually becoming more efficient as a world economy, there is more and more abundance and technology being developed, more buildinds, housing, infrastructure, sharing of information. If you actually look around, the economy and/or dollar aren't weakening at all...what's really going on is more and more psychological ammunition if you will, is being spread, so people are perpetually in a false fear consciousness...the point in this is to make them easy to market to. The truth is we are fine and better off than we pretty much ever have been. The amount of food and resources wasted everyday is so huge that its a joke to think theres any sort of deficiency, if anything its just a distribution / utilization / hoarding issue
 
J

j.

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pboy said:
If you actually look around, the economy and/or dollar aren't weakening at all...

That's really funny. Devaluation of the dollar is the policy of the United States, otherwise the debt won't be possible to pay.
 

jaguar43

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Their is a lot of people saying that the U.S is basically over. In my opinion, thats probably true, but some how the rich keep getting richer and the middle class keeps being devoured. I guess its only over the majority of us.
 

gretchen

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J, I agree with you to some extent.

burtlancast, thanks for the book recommendation.

I think the reasons for America's collapse are manifold but mainly related to the destruction of the Constitution. Enlightenment values do not seem to register well with the masses and the elite apparently has a lot of contempt for them.
 

Asimov

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jag2594 said:
Their is a lot of people saying that the U.S is basically over. In my opinion, thats probably true, but some how the rich keep getting richer and the middle class keeps being devoured. I guess its only over the majority of us.
Just for the record, this is not true at all.

The middle class isn't getting devoured, or anything like that. It's just that a larger and larger percentage of their total compensation has been shifted from wages to benefits (health care, retirement, etc). If you look up employee compensation over the last few decades it's gone up consistently.
 

jaguar43

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Asimov said:
jag2594 said:
Their is a lot of people saying that the U.S is basically over. In my opinion, thats probably true, but some how the rich keep getting richer and the middle class keeps being devoured. I guess its only over the majority of us.
Just for the record, this is not true at all.

The middle class isn't getting devoured, or anything like that. It's just that a larger and larger percentage of their total compensation has been shifted from wages to benefits (health care, retirement, etc). If you look up employee compensation over the last few decades it's gone up consistently.

The military has taken away benefits for the enlisted, unions have decrease in states like Ohio which means decrease compensation, basically every retail store has the majority of part timers to not pay for healthcare. Which world are you living in?
 

4peatssake

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jag2594 said:
Which world are you living in?
 

jaguar43

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Asimov

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Sorry, I don't deal in rhetoric. The NUMBERS strongly disagree with you. Add up the different levels of employee compensation and you'll find a steadily increasing trend. There's no debate about this.

If you wish to justify your victimhood, don't bother doing it with this debate. You're wrong. Employee compensation is NOT decreasing. Raises are being shifted away from wages and towards healthcare/retirement benefits. The middleclass is NOT getting devoured...they're just getting paid in a different way. End of discussion.
 

4peatssake

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Asimov said:
Sorry, I don't deal in rhetoric. The NUMBERS strongly disagree with you. Add up the different levels of employee compensation and you'll find a steadily increasing trend. There's no debate about this.

If you wish to justify your victimhood, don't bother doing it with this debate. You're wrong. Employee compensation is NOT decreasing. Raises are being shifted away from wages and towards healthcare/retirement benefits. The middleclass is NOT getting devoured...they're just getting paid in a different way. End of discussion.
Tell that to my husband and countless others who have been marginalized by corporations that have completely gutted their benefits and wages, scaling them back to the wages they were paid in the 80s. After that they went after their pensions.

People have lost their homes, luckily we made some good choices and weren't completely wiped out.

Look around you and talk to people, instead of reading so called "numbers" on a document. Good God.
Incidently, there is a huge difference between "victimhood" and evil.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/05/news/economy/middle-class-wages/index.html
 

pboy

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Yes but ultimately its your fault to lend out all your money and have all that insurance, its better to invest it immediately in tangible commodities and land so you aren't affected by artificlal inflation and things like that. There certainly has been no loss of information, infrastructure, buildings, resources, housing, ect...and minimum wage / wages in general correlate the same to basic purchasing power so Asimov must be right in a sense. My view is that people are wasting their money and through all the credit lines, banking, insurances, ect ect lots of money is lost due to confusion and laundering but the total amount is the same...people on an individual basis should just try to control their own money and value better and invest in real tangible materials and land instead of just having it sit in institutions like insurance and retirement funds where its completely out of your control. However...I'm pretty young so maybe I just haven't been around long enough to realize that there have in fact been significant changes
 

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jaguar43

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pboy said:
Yes but ultimately its your fault to lend out all your money and have all that insurance, its better to invest it immediately in tangible commodities and land so you aren't affected by artificlal inflation and things like that. There certainly has been no loss of information, infrastructure, buildings, resources, housing, ect...and minimum wage / wages in general correlate the same to basic purchasing power so Asimov must be right in a sense. My view is that people are wasting their money and through all the credit lines, banking, insurances, ect ect lots of money is lost due to confusion and laundering but the total amount is the same...people on an individual basis should just try to control their own money and value better and invest in real tangible materials and land instead of just having it sit in institutions like insurance and retirement funds where its completely out of your control. However...I'm pretty young so maybe I just haven't been around long enough to realize that there have in fact been significant changes

Medical insurance is mandatory unless you have enough money to pay for the medical bills your self. We as people who seek alternative methods are not at the level where we can heal ourselves without external sources like MRI's and Ultrasound's. Credit is must if you ever want to purchase a home unless you have enough money to pay for cash. You need the banks to give you loans unless you have the cash at hand. How can people waste their time on these things if their is no choice( if you are wealthy then I guess not).

Unless you want to live out on your property with no electric, water, or sources of communications then I guess it is ok, but most people don't.

The minimum wage is not correlate to basic purchasing power, How in the world are you suppose to pay for a home that is worth 270,000 with a 7.25 hourly wage, with food and gas rising. According to Census Bureau data, The lowest 93% of the population lost 4 % of their net worth, while the wealthiest 7 % had a net gain of 28% in 2011. You don't need statistics to see people suffering, people are living in the woods in cities like manassas and fauquier, and this area is the northern virginia area, which is not doing as bad as other states.
 

jaguar43

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Asimov said:
Sorry, I don't deal in rhetoric. The NUMBERS strongly disagree with you. Add up the different levels of employee compensation and you'll find a steadily increasing trend. There's no debate about this.

If you wish to justify your victimhood, don't bother doing it with this debate. You're wrong. Employee compensation is NOT decreasing. Raises are being shifted away from wages and towards healthcare/retirement benefits. The middleclass is NOT getting devoured...they're just getting paid in a different way. End of discussion.

Please send me a copy of the statistics, because according to the Census Bureau data the lowest 93% percent of household lost 4 percent of their net worth, while the wealthiest 7% increased their net worth by 28%. The total net worth takes in consideration benefits, 401, stocks, ect. IF you were right there would be no loose on the total net worth, healthcare and retirement benefits are more expensive than just paying someone to work. What am I supposed to do not believe the Census Bureau data because it is funded by the government. Of course in your Libertarianism/republican view anything funded by the government is corrupted.

If you know anything about ray peat you know that he takes a subjective view on most things. Which means that you view the organism connected to it's environment and you take into consideration all conditions that can alter its output. To say that people are justifying their victimhood by observing what they see, and taking account of other peoples experiences and their own, is not welcome on this forum. Some people on this forum had and still are facing economic difficulties which is a fair way of making an argument.
 

Asimov

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jag2594 said:
Please send me a copy of the statistics, because according to the Census Bureau data the lowest 93% percent of household lost 4 percent of their net worth, while the wealthiest 7% increased their net worth by 28%. The total net worth takes in consideration benefits, 401, stocks, ect.
Net worth doesn't ever include intangible benefits. How could it? There's no way to calculate someone's healthcare benefit payout before they're done receiving healthcare (IE: their entire life). There's no WAY you can calculate net worth on intangible assets.......

This is why I don't bother having conversations like this because when all else fails, you'll just invent a statistic that supports your point.
 

jaguar43

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Asimov said:
jag2594 said:
Please send me a copy of the statistics, because according to the Census Bureau data the lowest 93% percent of household lost 4 percent of their net worth, while the wealthiest 7% increased their net worth by 28%. The total net worth takes in consideration benefits, 401, stocks, ect.
Net worth doesn't ever include intangible benefits. How could it? There's no way to calculate someone's healthcare benefit payout before they're done receiving healthcare (IE: their entire life). There's no WAY you can calculate net worth on intangible assets.......

This is why I don't bother having conversations like this because when all else fails, you'll just invent a statistic that supports your point.

Tangible Costs
Tangible costs include the types of things a business writes checks for: salaries and wages, leases, operational inputs, employee medical benefits, transportation and commercial insurance. These costs have a clear place in the general ledger. The company cannot conduct business or produce a quality product without spending on tangible costs. They are also easy to quantify, so management tends to focus on the manipulation of tangible costs.

dude are you serious??
 
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