Is Supplementing Vit E Actually Bad For You?

Travis

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Again with the Soybean oil. I am already staring at various Vit. E bottles every day and they are saying don't take me...

The γ-tocopherol molecule is rather important as it it's been shown to selectively bind and remove both nitrogen dioxide (ṄO) and peroxynitrite (ONO₂⁻). It is especially important for smokers and those with cancer, necessarily making it über-important for smokers with cancer. Smoke contains approximately 500·ppm nitric oxide (ṄO). Although this in itself isn't especially dangerous, it has that potential on account of it being the precursor for both nitrogen dioxide (ṄO) and peroxynitrite (ONO₂⁻). The most dangerous reactive nitrogen species is generally considered to be peroxynitrite, formed when the superoxide radical (Ȯ) adds to nitric oxide (ṄO). Peroxynitrite nitrates proteins at tyrosine side-chains, can cause DNA modifications, and is actually the second substrate for cyclooxygenase besides the notorious arachidonic acid (20∶4, ω−6). There is every indication that two oxygen molecules from peroxynitrite (O=N–O–O) become the endoperoxide ring of prostaglandin H, which is then further differentiated into the carcinogenic prostaglandin E₂ and the immune-modulating and alopeciating prostaglandin D₂. It follows that prostaglandin E₂ will then increase in proportion to the enzymes phospholipase A₂, NADH oxidase, iNOS, and cyclooxygenase-2; all of these are induced by cytokines, and together they assemble the molecular framework necessary for prostaglandin E₂ synthesis: Phospholipase A₂ is responsible for releasing arachidonic acid from the sn-2 position of cell membrane phospholipids; this being an indispensable precursor which will later account for 86.4% of the prostaglandin's mass. The enzyme NADH oxidase is necessary to produce the superoxide radical, an enzyme induced by cytokines with apparent intent of destroying extracellular invaders. But since superoxide can also be created spontaneously near mitochondria and free iron, this enzyme is not obligatory for superoxide generation. Obviously, inducible nitric oxide synthase eponymously produces nitric oxide (ṄO) after being induced; but as also having a constitutional form, this enzyme is not completely necessary for nitric oxide generation. Onto the superoxide ion radical (Ȯ) nitric oxide (ṄO) combines (+), forming the second substrate of cyclooxygenase: peroxynitrite (O=N–O–O), which will later go on to account for the 9.1% of the future prostaglandin's mass. Cyclooxygenase is of course the most necessary enzyme as this will finally assemble our two substrates to form prostaglandin H, creating a dioxygen bridge across carbon №9 and №11 of arachidonic acid (formed by two of peroxynitrite's three oxygen atoms). Thus: nitric oxide and superoxide both together are necessary to form, or to actually become, the definitive endoperoxide ring of prostaglandin H; oxygens are added onto cyclooxygenase's other substrate—arachidonic acid—in the cyclicization process which defines that enzyme semantically. All four enzymes induced together would necessarily tend towards higher prostaglandin E₂ synthesis—assuming sufficiently-unwise linoleic acid consumption—although all enzymes besides NADH oxidase appear to have a constitutional forms, always creating their respective products at a lower-levels. But the product of NADH oxidase—superoxide—is constantly being produced spontaneously around mitochondria besides, and especially in one taking iron supplements.

The reduction in cancer incidence reported for 'antioxidants' could be partially explained by reduced superoxide formation; any positive correlations with iron intake could perhaps be explained likewise. But 'antioxidants' as a class are by no means specific and most of them have other functions (i.e. enzyme inhibitors), and these correlations are never as strong as those with γ-tocopherol. This vitamin E subtype has one characteristic function only, and that is to reduce concentrations of nitrogen dioxide (ṄO) and peroxynitrite (O=N–O–O) by selectively binding it irreversibly. It also works in its short-tail soluble form, as γ-CEHC, of which is found a tenfold higher urine concentration than is α-CEHC. This increased flux of γ-CEHC through the body can partially explain the lower steady-state serum concentrations of γ-tocopherol despite its higher dietary intake (relative to α-tocopherol). Smokers have lower steady-state levels which increase as a function of time upon cessation, which can only logically be seen as a decreased formation and elimination of nitro-γ-CEHC and nitro-γ-tocopherol due to lower nitric oxide (ṄO) intake. Since peroxynitrite is the second necessary substrate for cyclooxygenase, then the highly-significant reductions in cancer attributed to γ-tocopherol could partially by accounted for simply by reduced prostaglandin E₂ concentrations. This eicosanoid has long been shown in vitro to stimulate cancer proliferations, and it's precursor linoleic acid is the most carcinogenic fatty acid as determined by the sum total of rat feeding experiments (and also human epidemiology).

Methylglyoxal also has one very specific molecular function: this molecule binds with arginine forming hydroimidazalone. Endogenous nitric oxide is created from this amino acid, and methylgloxal would necessarily lower ṄO formation by disabling it (irreversibly forming hydroimidazalone). Lower nitric oxide concentrations translates to lower peroxynitrite concentrations, and this in turn leads to lower prostaglandin E₂ concentations. Reducing nitric oxide, whether a smoker or a nonsmoker, is is probably best achieved through the used of γ-tocopherol (and other ṄO-binders) the aforementioned dicarbonyl.


Of course cyclooxygenase inhibitors inhibit prostaglandin E₂, but this alone does nothing about peroxynitrite (O=N–O–O) concentrations. If prostaglandin formation is seen as a way of detoxifying excess peroxynitrite in the intracellular space by adding it to a lipid, arachidonic acid, then the inhibition of cyclooxogenase-2 could even slightly raise peroxynitrite concentrations. And of course nothing, besides γ-tocopherol, is actually preventing any peroxynitrite molecule—including those being prevented from entering the prostaglandin H pathway by aspirin—from reacting elsewhere: forming spontaneous and random eicosanoids (such as leukotriene-types) by reacting with cell membrane lipids, perhaps creating nitro-tyrosine–proteins, or even causing DNA chain breaks.
 
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Obi-wan

Obi-wan

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Thanks @Travis, I don't smoke, trying to stay low on PUFA, do all of the other stuff you have recommended, I get a stuffy nose when I take Lysine or Inosine. I have another gamma bottle on the way but was told it too had Soy oil. So now I am collecting Vit. E bottles...

So Gamma-tocopherol at the expense of linoleic acid? Maybe better to just get from some daily Pufa. No one eats PUFA free.
 

Dave Clark

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I did find this info on some other retailers who carry it;
"Other Ingredients Soybean oil. Softgel consists of gelatin, glycerin and water. Carob and caramel added as a light barrier. Contains Soy"
I am looking at my bottle of Jarrow Gamma E, and it looks just like what Obi-wan said in his post, no soybean oil. Wondering if the formula changed? I am going to have to keep an eye out when re-ordering.
 

High_Prob

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I am looking at my bottle of Jarrow Gamma E, and it looks just like what Obi-wan said in his post, no soybean oil. Wondering if the formula changed? I am going to have to keep an eye out when re-ordering.

I just contacted Jarrow and talked to a product information rep: They confirmed that the Gamma E product is definitely extracted from soy...
 
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Obi-wan

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I just contacted Jarrow and talked to a product information rep: They confirmed that the Gamma E product is definitely extracted from soy...


So my question continues why consume PUFA for Vit. E?
 
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Braveheart

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Is one capsule a week...to get some extra gamma... going to ruin our life?
 

Dave Clark

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I just contacted Jarrow and talked to a product information rep: They confirmed that the Gamma E product is definitely extracted from soy...
That doesn't upset me as much as the vitamin e being put in a soybean oil base in the capsule. However, I do prefer the vitamin be extracted from an organic non-GMO source. Vitamin e is almost always from soy, sunflower, or wheat, which have PUFAs. I guess a palm oil source would be one of the best. I am still learning and searching.
 
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Obi-wan

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Is one capsule a week...to get some extra gamma... going to ruin our life?

I think your the only one that takes it once a week. Most take it daily. Way to much IMHO. The supplement munchers that we are...
 

Travis

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Thanks @Travis, I don't smoke, trying to stay low on PUFA, do all of the other stuff you have recommended, I get a stuffy nose when I take Lysine or Inosine. I have another gamma bottle on the way but was told it too had Soy oil. So now I am collecting Vit. E bottles...

So Gamma-tocopherol at the expense of linoleic acid? Maybe better to just get from some daily Pufa. No one eats PUFA free.
That post was a bit long, but this is important. Most sources, if they even mention it, will probably tell you that hydrogen peroxide is the other substrate for cyclooxygenase. The best science indicates otherwise, and potentially reveals the real evolutionary purpose of cyclooxgenase: The long lipids (i.e. arachidonic, eicosapentaenoic) could simply be released from the cell membrane by phospholipase A₂ simply to help detoxify excessive peroxynitrite, a species created to fight invaders yet just as toxic to the cell which had made it. The eicosanoids themselves are not good defensive molecules by comparison to the three small molecules created intentionally for this purpose: the superoxide radical ion, the nitric oxide radical, and the peroxynitrite formed as these two combine. The fact that macrophages express the generative enzymes of the forgoing small molecule defenders highlight their immune–defensive function, as does the fact that NADH oxidase and iNOS are induced by cytokines. Knowing how nitric oxide powerfully stimulates prostaglandin E₂ production also could explain its carcinogenic effects (besides the more conventional 'DNA adduct' explanations.

[evidence available upon request]
 
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Obi-wan

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That post was a bit long, but this is important. Most sources, if they even mention it, will probably tell you that hydrogen peroxide is the other substrate for cyclooxygenase. The best science indicates otherwise, and potentially reveals the real evolutionary purpose of cyclooxgenase: The long lipids (i.e. arachidonic, eicosapentaenoic) could simply be released from the cell membrane by phospholipase A₂ simply to help detoxify excessive peroxynitrite, a species created to fight invaders yet just as toxic to the cell which had made it. The eicosanoids themselves are not good defensive molecules by comparison to the three small molecules created intentionally for this purpose: the superoxide radical ion, the nitric oxide radical, and the peroxynitrite formed as these two combine. The fact that macrophages express the generative enzymes of the forgoing small molecule defenders highlight their immune–defensive function, as does the fact that NADH oxidase and iNOS are induced by cytokines. Knowing how nitric oxide powerfully stimulates prostaglandin E₂ production also could explain its carcinogenic effects (besides the more conventional 'DNA adduct' explanations.

[evidence available upon request]


Couldn't I just do aspirin?
 

Travis

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Couldn't I just do aspirin?
But aspirin wouldn't prevent peroxynitrite from reacting elsewhere, which would likely go on to: adduct with tyrosine side chains of proteins, initiate free radical chain reactions on lipid membranes forming nonenzymatic eicosanoids, modify nucleic acids. Of course there is no better way to inhibit cyclooxgenase than aspirin, but prostaglandin E₂ concentrations can be reduced further with γ-tocopherol by binding one of its substrates. These are non-competing pathways so the effects would compound. Also, the complete avoidance of ω−6 acids takes away cycooxygenase's second substrate—arachidonic acid—thereby lowering prostaglandin E₂ further yet:

Good: aspirin
Better: aspirin + γ-tocopherol
Best: aspirin + γ-tocopherol + linoleic acid 0%
 
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Obi-wan

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OK @Travis. Here is the ultimate question. How do I supplement gamma tocopherol? Any suggestions?
 

Travis

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OK @Travis. Here is the ultimate question. How do I supplement gamma tocopherol? Any suggestions?

Best: aspirin + γ-tocopherol + linoleic acid 0%​

Not only does this combination inhibit cyclooxygenase, it would do that and lower the concentrations of its two primary substrates—the direct prostaglandin precursors. Gamma-tocopherol has a higher turnover rate; the concentration of its metabolite γ-CEHC (and nitro-γ-CEHC) is found in the urine at 9× the concentration of the analogous α-CEHC (of course having no nitro form). Thus, I think its logical to assume that we need more γ-tocopherol especially considering the increased exposure to environmental nitrogen-containing gasses not inhaled by our ancestors. I don't usually take supplements, but when I do I try to pick the best ones. Since γ-tocopherol is actually №1 on my 'to buy list' I think I may go tocopherol-scouting on the interwebs right now.. .

NOW Foods™ Gamma E Complex, Advanced: also has gelatin, glycerin, water, carob and rice bran oil.

Swanson ULTRA™ Maximum-Strength Gamma Tocopherol: also has gelatin, glycerin, rice bran oil, purified water, caramel color.

LifeExtension™ Gamma E Tocopherol with Sesame Lignans: also has gelatin, glycerin, water, carob, lecithin, silica, rosemary. Contains soybeans and peanuts. Contains sesame.

Jarrow FORMULAS™ Gamma E: also contains soybean oil, gelatin, glycerin, water and carob.

the Vitamin Shoppe™ E-400 High Gamma: also contains gelatin, glycerin, purified water. Contains Soy.

SOLARAY™ Bio E Gamma Plex: also contains gelatin, glycerin, carob bean extract concentrate, water, soy oil, yellow beeswax, lecithin.

Carlson™ Gamma E Gems: also contains soybean oil, sunflower oil, beef gelatin, glycerin, water.

pure encapsulations™ Vitamin E: also contains rapeseed oil, gelatin, glycerin, water, sunflower oil.

PROCAPS LABORATORIES™ Gamma Vitamin E: also contains α-linolenic acid, gelatin, purified water, glycerin.
I'd be tempted to settle for the one having α-linolenic acid, the essential DHA precursor, but of course that could depend on what's in rice bran oil:

rice bran oil.png

Which has prohibitive levels of linoleic acid. If I were to buy one, I would certainly buy:

PROCAPS LABORATORIES™ Gamma Vitamin E: also contains α-linolenic acid, gelatin, purified water, glycerin.​

Alpha-linolenic acid is not a precursor for 1- and 2-series prostaglandins although I do realize has been found associated with cancer in some studies. But nonetheless, this is the only strictly essential fatty acid and necessary for DHA synthesis (unless a person happens to eat fish). We actually eat this all the time, and especially do those who consume either leaves or grassfed animals.
 
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Obi-wan

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High_Prob

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Ref-301050.jpg


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Looks like the Ultimate Gamma E is even better. It has no alpha-Linolenic Acid. I eat some white fish. No Soy or Wheat! No PUFA! Just ordered it. Thank you @Travis! @Dave Clark, @bzmazu @High_Prob @jb116 @Mossy @ecstatichamster @schultz @Aleeri @x-ray peat @Lucenzo01 @Mito @MrThyroid @LeeLemonoil @Amazoniac @Glassy @Vinero @RichardDobson @syncronicity @Tenacity @Ulysses @Jsaute21 @LukeL @Westside PUFAs @CLASH @sladerunner69 @fradon and anyone I missed including Dear @Sheila

@Obi-wan do you know what the ultimate source of the vitamin e is in this product? Palm? Sunflower? Soy (even though it says soy free it could still be from soy but super distilled like the Thorne Ultimate-E product)?

It really bothers me that many companies are not transparent about where it comes from...
 

High_Prob

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@Obi-wan do you know what the ultimate source of the vitamin e is in this product? Palm? Sunflower? Soy (even though it says soy free it could still be from soy but super distilled like the Thorne Ultimate-E product)?

It really bothers me that many companies are not transparent about where it comes from...

Just realized that there is an entry on Toxinless for the Gamma Vitamin E product - It states natural, "corn, soybean, canola, cottonseed and other seed oils". I will contact the company direct to confirm that this is still what is used and whether it applies to the Ultimate Gamma product as well...
 
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Obi-wan

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I just called them and what you just stated is correct. Dogged again! Should have called first before I ordered it. Another for my collection

Just emailed to cancel the order

Maybe I should just wise up and understand Vit E has to come from a PUFA source

Vitamin E supplements with the fewest additives - Toxinless nice site

My order was cancelled
 
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Obi-wan

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@Travis "Best: aspirin + γ-tocopherol + linoleic acid 0%". I don't think this exists
 

Travis

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The seeds with the highest levels tend to also have high linoleic acid. The coconut has far more α-tocopherol, and negligible amounts of γ-tocopherol, so it'd make for a relatively expensive supplement (especially considering the higher prices of coconuts in general, per tocopherol).

Going synthetic gives a racemic mixture having seven unnatural tocopherols for every natural one. We all consumed trace amount of linoleic acid anyway, and there simply aren't many choices besides.
 

Travis

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EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals

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