Is Supplementing Vit E Actually Bad For You?

[Travis]

Here is a good analysis of almost 500 studies on Vitamin E.
https://examine.com/supplements/vitamin-e/
Not much to write home about unless targeting something specific like thrombosis or high liver enzymes.

are we saying that most of these studies are not worth anything because we dont know that they used mixed tocopherols?

I'm saying which vitamin E form they had used in each case could be discerned by reading them; but also that review articles, blog articles, and many books often fail to discriminate between the two. This is important distinction to make, and I would be willing to bet the majority of the studies that you had linked to were done using α-tocopherol. For historical reasons, α-tocopherol had come to be the main tocopherol used ('vitamin E' proper) despite its lower prevalence in natural food simply on account of its slightly higher activity (10–20%) in rat fertility assays. Although α-tocopherol might be slightly more efficient in terminating free radical chain reactions (free radical electron coming from another lipid), this variety it is far less effective than γ-tocopherol in neutralizing nitrogen-containing free radicals such as nitric oxide (˙NO) and nitrogen dioxide (˙NO₂). And it could be argued that in instances in cancer, reduced intra- and extracellular nitric oxide concentrations would be preferred.

 

[Glassy]

Yes! But Nutri-Spec states that anywhere above 200 IU strains the heart, see:

The vitamin E in Activator is the highest biological activity and highest quality you can find anywhere. You may not realize that vitamin E is the one nutrient that is available in several different grades, all of which appear on the vitamin supplement labels as d-alpha Tocopherol. There is no way you can tell when you look at a product label whether you are getting common low grade vitamin E, or the high grade that you get from NUTRI-SPEC.

Something else you may not know about vitamin E is that almost all vitamin E in supplements is derived from wheat. Wheat, of course, is probably the number one food allergen. For that reason we have gone to the extra expense of getting your vitamin E from a non-wheat source.

You’d be hard pressed finding a vitamin E supplement derived from wheat these days. Nearly all vit E supplements are derived from soybean oil, including health natura’s which I take at the moment. When people start lying about other people’s products to make theirs sound preferable, I lose all confidence in everything else they say. I noticed that they said theirs wasn’t derived from wheat but also didn’t state what it was derived from (my money is on soy since it is so commonly the source).

The health natura and lotion craft tocopherol have a high gamma content and lower alpha content. I’m yet to try haiduts wheat germ version but I’ve noticed very little positive or negative affects from the health natura version. It’s very thick so no idea how you would use it as a solvent (unless you heat it first). I believe the iu dosing for vitamin e is based on the alpha content (ie on the alpha content is counted towards the international unit value), which is probably why most vit e supplements contain mainly alpha tocopherol. I’m mainly interested in protection from stored PUFAs as my diet is pretty dialed in on that front.

 

[Obi-wan]

I have stopped taking Vitamin E and will be taking higher amounts of selenomethionine. As some of you are not aware I have advanced prostate cancer

 

[Braveheart]

I have stopped taking Vitamen E and will be taking higher amounts of selenomethionine. As some of you are not aware I have advanced prostate cancer

I am aware, and am always very interested in your posts...I'm 74 and everything I do, I do with prostate health in mind...

 

[Syncopated]

I have stopped taking Vitamen E and will be taking higher amounts of selenomethionine. As some of you are not aware I have advanced prostate cancer

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sour...FjAAegQIBhAD&usg=AOvVaw24Nx5imbSDBf3pOFynXW77

 

[Mito]

are we saying that most of these studies are not worth anything because we dont know that they used mixed tocopherols?

There are eight different types of Vitamin E and they all have different chemical structures. Travis explained a couple of them and how those different structures have different effects. So I think you are correct that we would need to know exactly which form or forms of Vitamin E that each study used.

 

[Obi-wan]

Masterjohn on α-tocopherol vs γ-tocopherol (similar to what Travis has written)

Skip ahead to 14:29 and watch up to 22:42

Watch the video

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Peat Said Vitamin E Should Be Used Sparingly In 2000 Interview:

https://raypeatforum.com/community/...uld-be-used-sparingly-in-2000-interview.7498/

 

[TreasureVibe]

I have stopped taking Vitamin E and will be taking higher amounts of selenomethionine. As some of you are not aware I have advanced prostate cancer

There was a prostate cancer patient on a prostate cancer forum who said that his prostate shrunk for about 70% after having his varicocele surgically treated with varicocelectomy. I don't know if you have varicocele, thought I'd just mention it in case you do.

 

[burtlancast]

Peat Said Vitamin E Should Be Used Sparingly In 2000 Interview:

https://raypeatforum.com/community/...uld-be-used-sparingly-in-2000-interview.7498/

"From the year 2000 interview with Mary Shomon:

"Because the quality of commercial nutritional supplements is dangerously low, the only supplement I generally advocate is vitamin E, and that should be used sparingly." - RP

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/ray-peat.htm"

By the way, Vit E is anti-estrogenic. It also is destroyed by iron.
The Shutes were the first to document it restored fertility to animals.

 

[CLASH]

@haidut
In light of the information presented here on mixed tocopherols, gamma tocopherol, and alpha tocopherol, do you have any info on the breakdown of the gamma and alpha tocopherol content your tocovit product? I went through the tocovit thread and saw that you had said that it was 60% alpha, 20% delta, 10% gamma and 10% beta, but that you were waiting on the COA from the vendor. Did you ever recieve one? I apologize if I missed it, i skimmed all 14 pages before I asked but I still could have missed your response about this. Thanks for your time.

 

[x-ray peat]

Thanks for the enlightenment everyone. My Solgar Vitamin E ,supposedly mixed tocopherol, is 90% alpha and is going in the garbage.

 

[CLASH]

@Travis
What would be an acceptable ratio of tocopherols for a vit E supplement?

 

[Travis]

@Travis
What would be an acceptable ratio of tocopherols for a vit E supplement?

I remember that @Amazoniac had posted a list of ratios found naturally in foods, and the total average split had been about 50/50. The beta (β) and delta (δ) varieties were relatively underrepresented, but I haven't seen anything which highlights any peculiarities that those two (β and δ) may have. Perhaps after a bit of work, it will be found that these either (1) safely nullify ˙NO and ˙NO₂ radicals or (2) do nothing of the sort. In the former case, you could perhaps add them to the γ-tocopherol class; in the latter case, they'd be more similar to α-tocopherol in how they react with reactive nitrogen species. Perhaps the best value—what could be called something like 'the N-free radical neutralization potential'—found upon further investigation will turn-out to be (γ+β)/(α+δ) or (β+δ+γ)/(α), or some other combination of varieties. Gamma-tocopherol appears to be most important in the lungs: organs which experience the highest flux of ˙NO and ˙NO₂ radicals being produced not only in the body, but also from the combustion of hydrocarbons which are then inhaled from the environment. I don't think there is anything wrong with 'vitamin E,' as it is certainly necessary and 'protective,' but only in the failure to discriminate between the alpha (α) and gamma (γ) varieties.

 

[sladerunner69]

I asked haidut if a vitamin E supplement that was primarily made from alpha tocopehrol was still work using, and he said absolutely. Apparently the one that combats oxidation the most is alpha, although I've never looked over the literature.

 

[x-ray peat]

I think as Travis and others were saying supplementing high ratio alpha tocopherol reduces the concentration of gamma tocopherols. This section of the examine.com post summarizes the findings
https://examine.com/supplements/vitamin-e/

3.2. Serum
Oral ingestion of pure α-tocopherol supplements is known to dose-dependently reduce circulating concentrations of γ-tocopherol, with a 36-42% increase in basal α-tocopherol being met with a 28-61% reduction in γ-tocopherol.[9] This reduction in γ-tocopherol also seems to extend to red blood cells when they experience an increase in α-tocopherol,[93] and has been repeatedly noted either inherently or when combined with fish oil supplementation.[94][95][96] Supplementation of γ-tocopherol in isolation (up to 200mg over five weeks) conversely does not reduce circulating α-tocopherol concentrations,[97][98] and in trials using mixed tocopherol supplements it appears that 63% γ-tocopherol (315mg of a 500mg vitamin E supplement) is sufficient to elevate γ-tocopherol despite coingesting α-tocopherol (15%).[99]

Ingesting α-tocopherol (either natural or synthetic) in isolation appears to reduce circulating levels of γ-tocopherol, whereas the opposite does not appear to exist. Supplementing approximately equal levels of the two is thought to be sufficient to prevent a decrease in plasma γ-tocopherol.
It is thought that the reduction in serum γ-tocopherol comes secondary to α-tocopherol inducing secretion of vLDL particles rich in α-tocopherol,[100] as there does not appear to be competitive inhibition in the absorption of the two molecules from the intestines.[101]

 

[Travis]

I think as Travis and others were saying supplementing high ratio alpha tocopherol reduces the concentration of gamma tocopherols. This section of the examine.com post summarizes the findings
https://examine.com/supplements/vitamin-e/

3.2. Serum
Oral ingestion of pure α-tocopherol supplements is known to dose-dependently reduce circulating concentrations of γ-tocopherol, with a 36-42% increase in basal α-tocopherol being met with a 28-61% reduction in γ-tocopherol.[9] This reduction in γ-tocopherol also seems to extend to red blood cells when they experience an increase in α-tocopherol,[93] and has been repeatedly noted either inherently or when combined with fish oil supplementation.[94][95][96] Supplementation of γ-tocopherol in isolation (up to 200mg over five weeks) conversely does not reduce circulating α-tocopherol concentrations,[97][98] and in trials using mixed tocopherol supplements it appears that 63% γ-tocopherol (315mg of a 500mg vitamin E supplement) is sufficient to elevate γ-tocopherol despite coingesting α-tocopherol (15%).[99]

Ingesting α-tocopherol (either natural or synthetic) in isolation appears to reduce circulating levels of γ-tocopherol, whereas the opposite does not appear to exist. Supplementing approximately equal levels of the two is thought to be sufficient to prevent a decrease in plasma γ-tocopherol.
It is thought that the reduction in serum γ-tocopherol comes secondary to α-tocopherol inducing secretion of vLDL particles rich in α-tocopherol,[100] as there does not appear to be competitive inhibition in the absorption of the two molecules from the intestines.[101]

I think this could be because the topcopherol binding protein has a greater affinity for α-tocopherol, perhaps due to the fact that it's less prevalent in nature than γ-tocopherol but perhaps simply due to incidental considerations like hydrophobicity. Perhaps a better ratio would be 2∶1 in favor of γ-tocopherol? I just had looked at the ratios found in foods (γ∶α), and they can range from 1∶15 to about 2∶1.

 

[Mito]

I think this could be because the topcopherol binding protein has a greater affinity for α-tocopherol

 

[x-ray peat]

I think this could be because the topcopherol binding protein has a greater affinity for α-tocopherol, perhaps due to the fact that it's less prevalent in nature than γ-tocopherol but perhaps simply due to incidental considerations like hydrophobicity. Perhaps a better ratio would be 2∶1 in favor of γ-tocopherol? I just had looked at the ratios found in foods (γ∶α), and they can range from 1∶15 to about 2∶1.

That makes a lot of sense. I missed one of the studies in my post where they used a 4:1 ratio
"in trials using mixed tocopherol supplements it appears that 63% γ-tocopherol (315mg of a 500mg vitamin E supplement) is sufficient to elevate γ-tocopherol despite coingesting α-tocopherol (15%).[99]"

 

[Obi-wan]

@bzmazu takes Carlson Gamma E-Gems -- 465 mg - 120 Softgels

Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 1 Softgel
Servings per Container: 120

Amount Per Serving % Daily Value

Vitamin E (as d-alpha tocopherol) 150 IU 500%

Gamma Tocopherol 465 mg

Delta & Beta Tocopherols 201 mg