Is stretching and physiotherapy type exercises beneficial?

[Spirit00]

Im 20 yo Male and I have always had a bad tightness and asymmetry in my muscles/ posture

I was into physiotherapy and exercise to remedy this however was wondering if these exercise can do more harm then good.

Any help would be appreciated

 

[SamYo123]

Look at the results of FP, ignore all other advice from fitness influences that can't show the results

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[Tom K]

Ignore SamYo's advice. There is no Holy Grail. Having treated more than 20,000 patients as a PT, there is one universal rule I have discovered, " There are no rules " There is no cookbook in Medicine, which includes PT." There are good and bad PTs, Chiros, MDs, DOs, etc. Each patient/trainee has a different structure (long or short torso, longer or shorter tibia to femur length, etc.), and having a one size fits all solution is a reflection of limited knowledge, limited experience, poor analytical skills, and narrow thinking. If you were given interventions (exercise, stretching, etc.) that were inappropriate, of course they would emphasize the postural deviations that you already possess. That would be unlikely if your PT was/is competent.

To answer your question more completely, a description of your posture is necessary. Also, it is important to recognize there is a difference between restoring lost ROM due to surgery or trauma, and correcting posture. Correcting posture usually involves an active awareness/correction of your condition. Before and after photos can be meaningless when viewed from the active correction perspective. Many providers (PTs, Chiros, massage therapists, postural specialist, etc.) present marketing photos that are intended to reveal their ability/confidence. This is a meaningless attempt to demonstrate the superiority of their methods and can be misleading. A person with postural faults (most of us) can be coached to stand properly for the photo, and after the photo/coaching is finished that same person (the after photo) resumes their prior posture after a few minutes.

 

[SamYo123]

Ignore SamYo's advice. There is no Holy Grail. Having treated more than 20,000 patients as a PT, there is one universal rule I have discovered, " There are no rules " There is no cookbook in Medicine, which includes PT." There are good and bad PTs, Chiros, MDs, DOs, etc. Each patient/trainee has a different structure (long or short torso, longer or shorter tibia to femur length, etc.), and having a one size fits all solution is a reflection of limited knowledge, limited experience, poor analytical skills, and narrow thinking. If you were given interventions (exercise, stretching, etc.) that were inappropriate, of course they would emphasize the postural deviations that you already possess. That would be unlikely if your PT was/is competent.

To answer your question more completely, a description of your posture is necessary. Also, it is important to recognize there is a difference between restoring lost ROM due to surgery or trauma, and correcting posture. Correcting posture usually involves an active awareness/correction of your condition. Before and after photos can be meaningless when viewed from the active correction perspective. Many providers (PTs, Chiros, massage therapists, postural specialist, etc.) present marketing photos that are intended to reveal their ability/confidence. This is a meaningless attempt to demonstrate the superiority of their methods and can be misleading. A person with postural faults (most of us) can be coached to stand properly for the photo, and after the photo/coaching is finished that same person (the after photo) resumes their prior posture after a few minutes.

Look at the results

 

[Tom K]

As stated, "Many providers (PTs, Chiros, massage therapists, postural specialist, etc.) present marketing photos that are intended to reveal their ability/confidence. This is a meaningless attempt to demonstrate the superiority of their methods and can be misleading. A person with postural faults (most of us) can be coached to stand the marketing roperly for the photo, and after the photo/coaching is finished that same person (the after photo) resumes their prior posture after a few minutes."

The results of an exercise program on macularity are a far cry from altering postural aberrations. To suggest that only
aesthetic results as depicted in the staged FP webpage staged photos are the only measure of success is subjective and the substance of good marketing copy, and in some ways the equivalent to bodybuilders endorsing protein supplements. The disagreement here is not with Functional Patterns (FP), whose webpage copy does not distinguish itself from other exercise vendors that claim to have the Holy Grail of Secret Exercise Knowledge. FP has every right to the commercial claims that impress and solicit those in need of a promise. The disagreement is with the statement that suggest only visual representations matter. Having treated athletes at all levels, from Pee-wee to professional, there are more postural deviations in this group than not, yet these muscular national level athletes perform at the highest levels imaginable. To suggest that only visual representations are important is at best, misleading.

 

[SamYo123]

As stated, "Many providers (PTs, Chiros, massage therapists, postural specialist, etc.) present marketing photos that are intended to reveal their ability/confidence. This is a meaningless attempt to demonstrate the superiority of their methods and can be misleading. A person with postural faults (most of us) can be coached to stand the marketing roperly for the photo, and after the photo/coaching is finished that same person (the after photo) resumes their prior posture after a few minutes."

The results of an exercise program on macularity are a far cry from altering postural aberrations. To suggest that only
aesthetic results as depicted in the staged FP webpage staged photos are the only measure of success is subjective and the substance of good marketing copy, and in some ways the equivalent to bodybuilders endorsing protein supplements. The disagreement here is not with Functional Patterns (FP), whose webpage copy does not distinguish itself from other exercise vendors that claim to have the Holy Grail of Secret Exercise Knowledge. FP has every right to the commercial claims that impress and solicit those in need of a promise. The disagreement is with the statement that suggest only visual representations matter. Having treated athletes at all levels, from Pee-wee to professional, there are more postural deviations in this group than not, yet these muscular national level athletes perform at the highest levels imaginable. To suggest that only visual representations are important is at best, misleading.

Look at the videos

And the results of other fp practitioners.. getting the results

 

[Tom K]

Apologies. I was under the impression this was a discussion. Simply repeating the same mantra, 'Look at results photos,' is the standard reply in lieu of addressing any of the issues presented. There is science available regarding stretching, ROM, and the outcomes of different interventions. For example, Foam Rolling Training Effects on Range of Motion: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis - Sports Medicine. However, be forewarned, there are no photos, only data. Therefore we must conclude that the meta analysis link provided is irrelevant. (There are charts and graphs, but no pretty girls in bikinis).

 

[Herbie]

Im 20 yo Male and I have always had a bad tightness and asymmetry in my muscles/ posture

I was into physiotherapy and exercise to remedy this however was wondering if these exercise can do more harm then good.

Any help would be appreciated

Tight muscles can be caused by serotonin, things which lower will help. Are you talking about having scoliosis?

 

[SamYo123]

Apologies. I was under the impression this was a discussion. Simply repeating the same mantra, 'Look at results photos,' is the standard reply in lieu of addressing any of the issues presented. There is science available regarding stretching, ROM, and the outcomes of different interventions. For example, Foam Rolling Training Effects on Range of Motion: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis - Sports Medicine. However, be forewarned, there are no photos, only data. Therefore we must conclude that the meta analysis link provided is irrelevant. (There are charts and graphs, but no pretty girls in bikinis).

If you cant prove making humans better movers then why should people listen over someone who can prove it?

 

[Buckian]

Someone to consider looking into is Kit Laughlin. He and his wife’s practice, simply put, is to create flexibility in adults through relaxing tension in the body and letting each individual develop an understanding of what they are experiencing. With this I think there is a gravitation to more symmetry.

Two guys that have used Kit’s work are Jeffery Wolf (@theflexibull) and Lucas Aaron (@rangeofstrength).

 

[Tom K]

The concept of proof is interesting. As new methods of understanding/research are developed, what was proof in the past is often disproven today. There are many examples of what was believed to be true has been disproven today. For example, in the realm of exercise and maximum performance, the effect that strength has on sports performance was equated with strength. This 'common sense' conclusion is easy to reach because athletes tend to be bigger, more muscular, and stronger than the general public. It has and remains assumed that strength was one of the dominant factors in high level sports. After Tampa Bay won the Super Bowl (2003) a scientifically trained exercise physiologist/conditioning coach performed a NFL league study of strength data. The study looked at every position (except for quarterback), to determine the strength difference between those players that were starters and those that did not start at their individual positions. To the surprise of most observers, only one third of the starters finished in the top quartile for strength. Stated more clearly, two thirds of the starters in the NFL did not finish in the top quartile of strength for their positions.

The argument here is not your narrow view presented as proof. You have every right to your belief system and your religious 'Belief' approach, and it is understood why the less objective approach is taken. We do not need the scientific method to prove it is raining, just look out the window. However, to anyone with a slight degree of objectivity, your claim to 'Ignore everyone that does not agree with Functional Patterns,' is meaningless bias that violates the methodology that should be employed, often referred to as the scientific method. Instead, the advice/method/proof presented to ignore any other view represents the legal/lawyer method of research/science that fools the non-critical thinker. Instead of having an idea and seeking the reasons to establish a conclusion to what causes that idea (scientific method), the lawyer model you employ starts out with a conclusion (FP is the only answer) and seeks to establish the validity of that conclusion, which in your case uses simplistic photos, testimonials, and hype (which was addressed in earlier posts on this subject). As for non-science based conclusions, having had 30 plus years of experience, treating more than 20,000 patients, I can unequivocally state that based on that experience, what works for one patient does not always work for another. Using your approach, it would be acceptable for me to claim limited conclusions such as, "The McKenzie Method worked for this herniated disc patient, therefore all herniated disc patients should receive the McKenzie Method." I will present photos of the postural changes that occured before and after treatment as proof. I will not take responsibility for those that do not respond to McKenzie, the McKenzie followers/believers will claim that I must have made a mistake, and some will blame the patient for not following the program. Belief is for religion, not science. Good luck.

 

[SamYo123]

Does FP threaten your salary if everyone chooses it over other methods?


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[Tom K]

Once more, photos and result oriented testimonials and circular arguments are offered as 'Proof.' None of the points presented are referenced or addressed. The cult like behavior is repeated in a monochromatic tone reminiscent of a religious ceremony.

For the last time, an attempt to understand that you do not have the Holy Grail, but have an exercise system that may help people will be presented. Using Danny H, one of your photo/testimonial props, we can easily observe that Danny is a convert to FP. Was there a control Danny? Is there anyone that performed the FP program that did not lose 37 pounds but had similar result? If there was someone that experienced the pain relief claimed that did not lose 37 pounds, then the conclusion that FP was responsible for the improved symptoms is more plausible. Or, was there a control that lost 37 pounds without FP that experienced the same symptomatic reduction? Was the weight loss the main reason for Danny's symptomatic improvements, because weight loss decreased his tendency toward inflammation associated obesity? Did the decrease in calories associated with weight loss balance Danny's blood sugar, further reducing the inflammatory effects of obesity associated inflammation? I can go on and on with these questions to which you have no answers. But you have plenty of photos.

Again, I am not critical of FP. I am critical of the unproven assumption made, the lack of structure to the claims, the lack of controls, and the lack of anything that resembles science. I understand your view circular argument that FP is what it is because you believe what it is. In understand your reference to intuition and the other subjective phrases/beliefs employed to quantify your belief system. Belief is for religion, and my attempts to broaden your view have failed. The proof that they have failed is your inability or unwillingness to address any of the issues raised that criticizes your lack of methodology. I am acutely aware of the colloquialisms that are employed to hype an idea, and the notion that those of us that have engaged in formal research 'Dont know anything about what your beliefs/experiences prove.' Having been a researcher, research subject, and a clinician that has employed the scientific methods referred to in our exchanges cannot compete with what you believe. The hyperbole used to describe FP is exceptional evangelism with which any inference to science will fall short to the believers.

 

[-Luke-]

Does FP threaten your salary if everyone chooses it over other methods?

If I had to guess, I'd say your salary depends on FP a lot more than his.

Calm down, there's more than one way to skin a cat. It's nice that Functional Patterns is working for you and many more people. I don't doubt that it does. But leave the dogma, the same phrases over and over without even responding to others arguments, and the irritation when someone mentions other possibilities, to organized religions.

I had good results with foam rolling and deep tissue work (not just lying on some roller while watching tv) when it comes to muscle tightness and posture for example. Should I upload some pictures of my hairy thighs to some social network to prove it works or is the article Tom posted enough for you?

 

[Spirit00]

I’ve been diagnosed with very acute scoliosis when I was younger yes and I don’t things have gotten worse since then

 

[Spirit00]

Someone to consider looking into is Kit Laughlin. He and his wife’s practice, simply put, is to create flexibility in adults through relaxing tension in the body and letting each individual develop an understanding of what they are experiencing. With this I think there is a gravitation to more symmetry.

Two guys that have used Kit’s work are Jeffery Wolf (@theflexibull) and Lucas Aaron (@rangeofstrength).

Thank You i will check it out