Is Starch Just As Bad For Your Teeth As Sugar?

[Gadsie]

As much as I love sugar, for both taste and health, we can't deny that it's pretty bad for your teeth. For this reason I don't eat more than 2-3x a day to minimise "acid attacks".

Anyways, does anyone have some sources which compare the effects of starches such as rice and potatoes with for example candy or chocolate milk (anything sugary)? I can only find studies talking about general "carbohydrates"

 

[Mjhl85]

As much as I love sugar, for both taste and health, we can't deny that it's pretty bad for your teeth. For this reason I don't eat more than 2-3x a day to minimise "acid attacks".

Anyways, does anyone have some sources which compare the effects of starches such as rice and potatoes with for example candy or chocolate milk (anything sugary)? I can only find studies talking about general "carbohydrates"

I can deny it that it's bad for your teeth. I eat more sugar now than ever with no issues.
Brushing seems to have more of an ill effect than sugar for me at least.

 

[Gadsie]

I can deny it that it's bad for your teeth. I eat more sugar now than ever with no issues.
Brushing seems to have more of an ill effect than sugar for me at least.

Some people can get away with more than others, I have been pretty lucky myself as well, but nevertheless paranoid, because once you **** up your teeth, you can't turn it back anymore.
Sugar = bacteria = acid = weakening of enamel.

 

[Mjhl85]

Some people can get away with more than others, I have been pretty lucky myself as well, but nevertheless paranoid, because once you **** up your teeth, you can't turn it back anymore.
Sugar = bacteria = acid = weakening of enamel.

I think poor mineral balance/poor metabolism = improper processing or lack thereof of sugar = problems in general

 

[Gadsie]

I think poor mineral balance/poor metabolism = improper processing or lack thereof of sugar = problems in general

Your teeth are not healed from the inside. The only way your enamel regenerates is though the calcium and phosphorus in your saliva or the milk that you drink. But if the weakening of the enamel exceeds the regeneration, tooth decay occurs

 

[Mjhl85]

Your teeth are not healed from the inside. The only way your enamel regenerates is though the calcium and phosphorus in your saliva or the milk that you drink. But if the weakening of the enamel exceeds the regeneration, tooth decay occurs

What I'm getting at is that with proper thyroid, mineral balance & general metabolism there's no sugar = tooth decay.
I had much more severe tooth issues when i used to eat junk starches and pufa. Havent needed a dentist since. Sugar isn't the problem.

 

[artlange]

an oral probiotic for use at night helps me a lot. EvoraPlus is the brand. now almost zero tarter for the dentist to clean off.

 

[paymanz]

To my knowledge most bacterias can't digest starch, but they are good digesting sucrose.

But we also have amylase in our saliva,which digest starch and make glucose available for bacteria , so I don't know what's the difference between sugar and starch in this regard.

 

[Tenacity]

I imagine starch is worse simply for the fact that it is more likely to stick to teeth, whereas most sugar is dissolved and washed away.

I think most tooth issues come down to improper mineral and vitamin intake though. The physiology of bone and tooth health overlap.

 

[lvysaur]

Worse than ANY kind of sugar are acids. This includes lemon, oranges, and really any fruit other than bananas.

Sugar probably isn't great, starch depends on the source: rice and wheat seem bad, while potatoes seem to really clean the teeth (probably the fiber). Carrots also clean the teeth really well.

 

[Gadsie]

@Ivysaur
Do you really think acid is worse? I theorized that sugar will cause a continuous production of acid, whereas just acid will be just a very brief contact. Then again, fruit is acid + sugar.

I once again found a pretty interesting quote online regarding the protectivity of milk for tooth decay:

Milk (including flavoured milk) also contains components that may be protective against dental caries.3,7-12 A study conducted at the University of Rochester found that 2% milk containing as much as 10% added sugar (i.e., the amount in chocolate milk) was no more cariogenic than 2% milk without sugar.7 Also, 2% milk with 10% added sugar was less cariogenic than water with 10% sucrose which indicates that some components in milk may be protective.7,8 Moreover, some earlier studies have found that cocoa powder is noncariogenic.9,10

 

[lvysaur]

@Ivysaur
Do you really think acid is worse? I theorized that sugar will cause a continuous production of acid, whereas just acid will be just a very brief contact. Then again, fruit is acid + sugar.

I once again found a pretty interesting quote online regarding the protectivity of milk for tooth decay:

Acid is absolutely worse. The more acidic, the worse it is. Sugar can eventually produce small amounts of acid via bacterial fermentation, but this is time shifted and hampered by antibacterial saliva.

Baking soda, saliva, coconut oil, milk, and vegetable fiber are all good for the teeth. I think the milk is mostly that way because of calcium and a basic pH.

 

[schultz]

antibacterial saliva

I've mentioned this before on the forum before, but Chris Masterjohn, in his article about "Activator X", which is supposedly vitamin K2, he mentions how it has an anti-biotic action in the mouth.

"The Activator X concentrate also reduced the bacterial count of their saliva. In a group of six patients, administration of the concentrate reduced the Lactobacillus acidophilus count from 323,000 to 15,000. In one individual, the combination of cod liver oil and Activator X concentrate reduced the L. acidophilus count from 680,000 to 0."

Sure it's not a double-blind peer reviewed study or anything, but it could be used to guide research. It would also be cool if it was true. I would love to see a study using K2 at different doses and bacteria count in the saliva.

 

[walker_in_aus]

I can deny it that it's bad for your teeth. I eat more sugar now than ever with no issues.
Brushing seems to have more of an ill effect than sugar for me at least.

I also drastically reduced my cavity rate after reintroducing sugar and even coke back into my life. Hahaha my dentist is like noooo don't drink coke. However after three years "sugar free" and needing seven fillings I was like, this clearly doesn't work.... Also i watched the delightful yellow plaque retreat after also adding in K2. You can see in my log, I put photos up.

Starch and endotoxin relationship could have more to do with it too. There was also a study a while ago that showed a combination of starch and sucrose produced stronger biofilms and lower pH from s mutans (cavity causing bacteria) than starch or sugar alone?

 

[Westside PUFAs]

No because starch has to be converted into sugar first which can happen in saliva but it depends on how much salivary amylase you produce. Pure sucrose sugar is already sugar so it will cause decay quicker. But any kind of carbohydrate can cause decay if not washed away quickly enough. Even from a non "sugar" or starch source like greens. Greens are also sugar.

 

[DrJ]

Peat has said that he thinks that the intestinal health is related to tooth health through the bacterial content of saliva. Sorry I can't find the quote right now, but I think it was a KMUD interview. But if starches are feeding bad bacteria in your gut and overall burdening your body (by burdening your liver with dealing with the effects of high Gram-negative bacterial load in your intestine), then it seems plausible that could lead to bacterial overgrowth in the mouth.

But I'm with @Ivysaur on this one. Acids quite literally pull the calcium (Ca 2+) out of your teeth. Bacteria in the mouth can create more acids in the mouth from simple sugars. Also, amylase is present in the saliva. So starches might also directly have an effect in the mouth since amylase is the enzyme that "unzips" starches to glucose molecules, possibly feeding bacteria. But also, a lot of sugary drinks (like soda) are very acidic.

I've had a lot of luck with a Japanese toothpaste called Apagard M-plus which has been studied to re-mineralize the teeth by directly providing hydroxylapatite (calcium apatite) which can be a building-block to teeth. The feel of your teeth after brushing with it is quite distinct. It is used in Japan for re-mineralization. Interestingly, it was denied ADA certification in the US, so they don't sell it here directly, but you can still get it on Amazon (maybe others) by importers. If dentists make a lot of revenue from fixing cavities, then it's possible the ADA would not give their seal of approval because it reduces their constituents' revenue. The Japanese studies on its efficacy seem pretty solid. Because it is imported by 3rd parties and not distributed, it is expensive for a toothpaste, around $15 USD a tube, but a tube lasts me about 4 months, so $45/year to avoid cavities seems reasonable when you consider the cost of fixing a cavity. You should read the reviews on Amazon to see if you think it's legit.

Also, when I take high doses of Vitamin K2 (~15mg/day) which is supposed to put calcium "in its place" my teeth take on a distinctively very smooth, solid feel and I have no plaque; any apparent gum inflammation goes down. Plaque seems to be either calcium trying to get into the teeth, or being pulled from the teeth, compounded with other chemicals. So high plaque would be either your teeth trying to repair, or teeth being degraded. Haven't found any studies to point either way. But I would think that if either case happened to be true, a long-term presence of high plaque would be a bad sign either because calcium is trying to - but not - getting deposited to the teeth, *OR* is being pulled out of the teeth. Neither is a good scenario, so I think high plaque is a good indicator of a problem no matter what the truth of its function happens to be.

Edit: grammar

 

[Colin Nordstrom]

Weston Price found perfect teeth in populations that had a calcium:phosphorus ratio of 2.5:1. Starches are loaded in phosphorus, thus disrupting this balance. Whole grains and PUFA are the two biggest contributors to tooth decay. Phosphoric acid in sodas also doesn't help.