Is Peat Wrong After All? The Lyon Heart Study

[Crazycoco]

Yes that' why i think the best strategy is low pufa as a general rule but keep a good ratio Oméga 3/omega 6.
Another thing is why the saturated fats Werent protective here

 

[Crazycoco]

It's interesting that you claim the Taubes and Peat diets work yet you are interested in hopping to yet another diet. What in particular is currently wrong with your health?

oh nothing wrong. I just experiment things or diets to have my Own opinion. Sometimes with improvements. For example peating was for me a clear disprove of Taubes claim's as i'm leaner with more sugar

 

[omnivoracious]

oh nothing wrong. I just experiment things or diets to have my Own opinion. Sometimes with improvements. For example peating was for me a clear disprove of Taubes claim's as i'm leaner with more sugar

So how does this prove Peat is wrong? It's a pretty troll-ish subject line IMO.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Another thing is why the saturated fats Werent protective here

Protective from what? From the lowering of a toxin? It's a study of MULTIPLE interventions.

 

[Crazycoco]

So how does this prove Peat is wrong? It's a pretty troll-ish subject line IMO.

The fact is that you can be Healthy with Many diets: high fat/ low fats, eat as an asian or as a mediterranean etc. It' s à thing to say with my "diet" you'll be Healthy it's another thing to say "it's because you avoid this" and an experiment falsify your claims. I dont say Lyon heart study necessarly falsify peat claims but i think it is relevant and challenging...

 

[Crazycoco]

Ray doesn't pay a lot of attention to such studies and neither should we.

"Animal studies are usually better for understanding the effects of specific nutrients."

There are too many factors with human nutrition studies that are usually done via diaries and recall, and that are heavily biased anyway.

SO many of these studies are so biased that you can't depend on them. Even the more rigorous studies are usually biased heavily and often wrong.

I can Understand this type of argument but it has their downside too. If you say that studies on real human beeings with massive results have nothing to tell us because there are soooo Many parameters. Well it's no use to talk about it (that' sur not what the scientific community think but why not). But dont forget those type of argument are réversible too. We can say with this Logic that ray peat claim are based on study with sooooo Many parameters (like when he says that eating coconut oil protects porks against cancer... I remember a stephan guyenet post on this).

 

[ecstatichamster]

I can Understand this type of argument but it has their downside too. If you say that studies on real human beeings with massive results have nothing to tell us because there are soooo Many parameters. Well it's no use to talk about it (that' sur not what the scientific community think but why not). But dont forget those type of argument are réversible too. We can say with this Logic that ray peat claim are based on study with sooooo Many parameters (like when he says that eating coconut oil protects porks against cancer... I remember a stephan guyenet post on this).

there is sometimes value in these sorts of studies but generally there is not.

ESPECIALLY something as politically correct as the "mediterranean diet".

Ray Peat's "claims" are not really claims, they are assertions built on various studies and you will NEVER find Dr. Peat quoting these sorts of studies.

There is a lot we learn here on this forum about practical aspects of implementing Dr. Peat's recommendations and ideas. Some are "non Peaty" in a way. But quoting a study as your first post that suggests eating margarine etc. is not respectful of this group, IMHO.

 

[Crazycoco]

there is sometimes value in these sorts of studies but generally there is not.

ESPECIALLY something as politically correct as the "mediterranean diet".

Ray Peat's "claims" are not really claims, they are assertions built on various studies and you will NEVER find Dr. Peat quoting these sorts of studies.

There is a lot we learn here on this forum about practical aspects of implementing Dr. Peat's recommendations and ideas. Some are "non Peaty" in a way. But quoting a study as your first post that suggests eating margarine etc. is not respectful of this group, IMHO.

If you say So... My intention was not to dont respect this group. On the contrary, i believed that smart peuple here could give me some insight about the mediterranean diet with a peating view.
In science in general, or rational talks, objections are not disrespectful.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Coco are you French by any chance

 

[Crazycoco]

"Such saturation" yes i am:)

 

[Luann]

Crazococo welcome to our forum and thanks for bringing a new point of view. Open minds keep the science train rolling along : )

I do wonder if cutting out "saturated fats" as they did in the Lyon study, involves a lower iron intake, because bringing iron to a lower level in the body is linked to a lot of health benefits. For most people.

Have fun browsing the site!

 

[Sucrates]

Too many variables to say much from the study. Olive oil phenolics can mitigate the damage from endotoxin.

 

[Crazycoco]

Thanks for the kind words Liubo. Yes i think they probably had a less iron intake because the instructions was to avoid red meat. So less iron in mediterranean diet probably.

Regardind the red meat topic. I can

 

[Crazycoco]

Sorry So regarding red meat topic I know personnally one of the top Leading expert in the field who conduct the meta analysis about colon cancer and red meat. I just give you the conversation-

-me: is it true that red meat can cause Colon cancer?

-him: yes. But not as much as the Press says. It's rise undoubtly the Risk à little bit but not that much. But i was very disppointing about what newspapers says.

-why?

-because there is a really simple Way to avoid the toxicity of red meat.

-which one?

-just eating dairy after eating red meat block the toxicity of the iron meat. Simple as that. Have cheese or yogurt after. Oh, and don't fry it in pufa :)

 

[Wilfrid]

Don't you think that ( being on this forum to discuss Ray's work ) the real issue here is not really to know if Lorgeril with his study has been proved right with his diet recommendations...but rather if Broda Barnes, decades ( and decades... ) ago before Lorgeril and using thyroid supplementation as the unique variable in his experimentation against heart attack , has ever been proved wrong?
If you know the answer to my second question then you must, at least, admit that RP must be onto something about his researches and recommendations......no?

 

[Crazycoco]

Hi Wilfrid,

I think Ray peat is a great scientist and clearly he is onto something. I think that his genral recommandation to keep pufa low is a very good one. I think That what he wrote about coffee and gelatin clearly make sens.
What i think is more questionable are his views about Omega 3. French scientist of the study clearly say That binge on omega 3 is a huge mistake, espacially the marine sources. But they say That the ratio omega 3/ Omega 6 is very important. In this study, they say That it is this favorable ratio which saved lives.
Keep in mind That those french guys were at this Time like "the french Ray peat". Here is what they have said where recommandation of american heart association was "eat vegetables with pufa and dont drink wine":

-high pufa are bad
-Omega 6 are very bad
-we can save lives just by changing the ratio
-alcohol is heart protective. It stimulates blood circulation and is protective against saturated fats
-olive oil is very protective

I think if someone is in contact with Ray peat, it Would be à good idea to ask him what he thinks about this study because the results are astonishing.

Regarding broda barnes i'm gona Check it soon, think you

 

[Crazycoco]

Oh, and they say like ray peat, that the cholesterol stories are entierly bull****. Every Time they hear about cholesterol they laugh and the say that statins are clearly poisons. When i showed to them by email what they thaught about ray peat articles about cholesterol thay reply " he clearly less know what we know (ah french guys:) but frankly, not bad at all"

 

[DaveFoster]

Why don't you hang out here for a while before you post something like this. Did you notice the name of this forum? Welcome here and hello! I don't mean to sound down on you, thanks for posting and welcome but you see my point…

I agree.

@Crazycoco

I typed "olive oil ray peat" into Google.

Here's the first link: Unsaturated Vegetable Oils: Toxic

Q. What oils are safe?

Coconut and olive oil are the only vegetable oils that are really safe, but butter and lamb fat, which are highly saturated, are generally very safe (except when the animals have been poisoned). Coconut oil is unique in its ability to prevent weight-gain or cure obesity, by stimulating metabolism. It is quickly metabolized, and functions in some ways as an antioxidant. Olive oil, though it is somewhat fattening, is less fattening than corn or soy oil, and contains an antioxidant which makes it protective against heart disease and cancer.

Please use the search function in the future.

 

[Crazycoco]

The title of the article you have mentioned is "unsaturated vegetables oils: toxic".
In the Lyon heart study, they use canola oil to save lives. May be in this case "toxic" seems to much.

Please, read the the title of an article you mention in the future.

 

[Crazycoco]

Regarding the quote "Did you notice the name of this forum? " you mention above, yes i read it, "FORUM" not "CULT".
So Argumention not deifying.