Is Losing Bodyfat The Most Important Thing?

[Broken man]

Why do you say that? You can still include a couple eggs, some liver, oysters, fruit, skim dairy, potatoes on a very low fat diet. Vegetables too if you want. I think you can easily get all nutrients on a low fat diet.

I feel that way, only opinion.

 

[cyclops]

I feel that way, only opinion.

No not opinion, you can figure out what micronutrients you need and then put together a low fat diet that meets those needs. You can do this with macronutrients too.

 

[Broken man]

No not opinion, you can figure out what micronutrients you need and then put together a low fat diet that meets those needs. You can do this with macronutrients too.

Good luck with finding.

 

[Collden]

No I don't notice his eyebrows. He went from a beached whale to shredded beef and you're talking about his eyebrows...then you show me a guy who went from fat to chubby. Martin looks way better and healthier lean. And now that he's lean he can work on his health from being lean if he has any other issues. I don't get how anyone could say he would have been better off keeping the fat on him.

Never heard of Sign of Herthoghe? Weak/missing eyebrows is one of the surest signs of prolonged impaired thyroid function and chronic stress.

 

[cyclops]

Good luck with finding.

You're the one who said you don't think you can get enough nutrients on a low fat diet, implying there are nutrients in a high fat diet that you can't get on a low fat diet. So you must know what these nutrients are? If you don't, then some people are trying to tell you that you can get all these nutrients on a low fat diet if you picked the right foods. Because there aren't any nutrients in a high-fat diet that cannot be gotten on a lower-fat diet (except fat).

Never heard of Sign of Herthoghe? Weak/missing eyebrows is one of the surest signs of prolonged impaired thyroid function and chronic stress.

I don't see any changes in his eyebrows from before to after.

 

[tca300]

No doubt but for those of us who let ourselves go, we need to figure out the best way to get this blubber off of us

Metabolic stimulating foods/high nutrients
Mild Calorie deficit
Red light
Vitamin D
Low intensity walking
Strength training
Vitamin E

 

[Broken man]

You're the one who said you don't think you can get enough nutrients on a low fat diet, implying there are nutrients in a high fat diet that you can't get on a low fat diet. So you must know what these nutrients are? If you don't, then some people are trying to tell you that you can get all these nutrients on a low fat diet if you picked the right foods. Because there aren't any nutrients in a high-fat diet that cannot be gotten on a lower-fat diet (except fat).

No no no, I wrote "I think" so please..........

 

[tca300]

You're the one who said you don't think you can get enough nutrients on a low fat diet, implying there are nutrients in a high fat diet that you can't get on a low fat diet. So you must know what these nutrients are? If you don't, then some people are trying to tell you that you can get all these nutrients on a low fat diet if you picked the right foods. Because there aren't any nutrients in a high-fat diet that cannot be gotten on a lower-fat diet (except fat).



I don't see any changes in his eyebrows from before to after.

On the contrary, Martin to this day still has an amazing hairline

 

[cyclops]

On the contrary, Martin to this day still has an amazing hairline

Damn what a beast. Tca300, thanks for the tips. Do you think intermittent fasting, like Martin does, is a good idea? If you do, do you think it would be good to take some Vitamin E during the fasting part? I'm think since all that toxic blubber is coming out of you, maybe the vitamin E will help deal with it? Or maybe something else? Thyroid?

 

[cyclops]

Metabolic stimulating foods/high nutrients
Mild Calorie deficit
Red light
Vitamin D
Low intensity walking
Strength training
Vitamin E

Nice tips! If think of any others I'd love to know. Any advice on timing of these things to optimize? Amount of vitamin d?

Do you think very low fat is the way to go until one reaches their goal body fat %?

 

[tca300]

You're the one who said you don't think you can get enough nutrients on a low fat diet, implying there are nutrients in a high fat diet that you can't get on a low fat diet. So you must know what these nutrients are? If you don't, then some people are trying to tell you that you can get all these nutrients on a low fat diet if you picked the right foods. Because there aren't any nutrients in a high-fat diet that cannot be gotten on a lower-fat diet (except fat).



I don't see any changes in his eyebrows from before to after.

Ya. I hear that all the time. The most nutritious foods in existence are all low fat. Liver, shellfish, fruit, green vegetables. Full fat milk is an exception, but you can drink lower fat varieties.
Low carb high fat diets are notoriously low in micronutrients. Fatty foods displace nutrient dense plant foods that have an abundance of minerals and vitamins.

 

[Collden]

I don't see any changes in his eyebrows from before to after.

Hard to say since there are no good photos from before he started IF and none from before he lost all that weight, but I'd say his eyebrows definitely got thinner comparing the early modelling days and recent photos.

Hairline is not at all a good indicator of thyroid function in men, its all about eyebrows.

 

[tca300]

Damn what a beast. Tca300, thanks for the tips. Do you think intermittent fasting, like Martin does, is a good idea? If you do, do you think it would be good to take some Vitamin E during the fasting part? I'm think since all that toxic blubber is coming out of you, maybe the vitamin E will help deal with it? Or maybe something else? Thyroid?

I'm not a fan of intermittent fasting, for many reasons. It seems effective for fat loss etc, but when losing fat, and releasing toxic trash, supplying the liver with adequate nutrition is very important.
Vitamin E is important during fat loss because it protects from released PUFA. Adequate protein, sugar, and b vitamins will help with eliminating the toxic substances realeased from fat stores.

I like low fat for many reasons, but the less PUFA you eat, the less burden on the system, its already dealing with PUFA from fat stores.
Also eating low fat will push PUFA to be oxidized for fuel quicker because other mono and saturated fats will be minimal, not being burned preferentially, allowing pufa to circulate and cause more damage.
Thats my opinion anyways.

 

[tca300]

Hairline is not at all a good indicator of thyroid function in men, its all about eyebrows.

My great grandpa has the fullest bushiest eyebrows I have ever seen, and runs at about 94-95°F, and has for all my life. I think there is more to it than eyebrow fullness.

 

[Collden]

My great grandpa has the fullest bushiest eyebrows I have ever seen, and runs at about 94-95°F, and has for all my life. I think there is more to it than eyebrow fullness.

And is/was your grandpa a low or high energy person? Rich temperament? strong personality? Or someone who’s always tired and doesnt like to do much at all? Does he eat and drink like a man? There’s also more to health than a temperature reading.

Of course there are exceptions, but just my anecdotal experience is that eyebrow fullness tends to correlate very well with the overall dynamism, energy levels and creative potential of an individual.

On the flipside my father is one of the most hypothyroid and sickest/ zombielike people I know and he has a full head of hair.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Men with huge muscles are not showing good health. It may display status but it indicates a lot of stress.

I'm not aware that muscle guys have longer or healthier lifespans.

I think 25% body fat is probably good as you age. I think 10% to 15% is too low unless that's already your "set" BMI and you're fine with that.

Whatever it is, the question is, if you are TOO FAT, is it BEST to lose the fat. And I contend it is not unless you lose it very, very slowly and very carefully. In most cases fat loss will lower BMR and cause hormonal imalances, release a lot of toxins and actually cause worse health that may not be easy to recover from, especially for men and women in their 50s and beyond, who are already in poor health.

Today's message is always "lose weight and you will solve your problems" but I think it's "lose weight and you will be in worse health" 95% of the time.

This is NOT arguing that being fat is good. But once fat, becoming thin is not usually the answer.

I think being fat is a result of metabolic problems. Just losing weight doesn't fix the problems and will quite possibly lead to cancer. But fixing the metabolic problems will often result in weight loss or at least make it much easier.

In almost every case, men and women who get sick and are a bit overweight have better outcomes than thin people.

Peat has said:

Andrew: Would you start with what you think the ideal body fat percentage should be?
Ray: I think it varies according to gender and age. For example, young women who are overweight have better outcome of breast cancer (a lower incidence of breast cancer) than those who are underweight.
Sarah: And what are you saying [as] young women?
Ray: In the 20's and 30's. And one of the greatest increases in cancer is occurring among women between the ages of 25 and the early 30's. It's tripled in the last 30 or 40 years in that age group. But because of that relationship it's better for a young woman to be on the plump side...
Andrew: With saturated fats...
Ray: Yeah, if it's a good diet. And then in older people, being somewhat leaner for women is reducing the risk of breast cancer. But in old people in general mortality is lower with heavier body weight. They just have a greater resistance to stresses. So you have to look at the individual, and their age and gender. And overall mortality goes down in old people who are slightly on the heavy side.
Andrew: So it's very much relative to age then. Age and gender then, because obviously that percentage will change.
Sarah: I thought you said that older people who are slightly more plump have...
Andrew: Yeah, he did...
Sarah: Have a more decreased mortality.
Ray: Yeah, same with increased cholesterol. And a slight increase in blood pressure in old age is good. Same thing with...
Andrew: What do you think that body fat percentage would be then? 20%? 24%?
Ray: I think a little higher.
Sarah: That's pretty low.
Andrew: That's too low, huh?
Sarah: I remember when I was 19 I had it measured at 19%
Andrew: Ah, ok.
Sarah: The person said, "I don't think you'd ever be able to get pregnant at 19%."
Andrew: So how about 30%?
Ray: Yeah, I think 30%.

 

[charlie]

Men with huge muscles are not showing good health. It may display status but it indicates a lot of stress.

I'm not aware that muscle guys have longer or healthier lifespans.

I think 25% body fat is probably good as you age. I think 10% to 15% is too low unless that's already your "set" BMI and you're fine with that.

Whatever it is, the question is, if you are TOO FAT, is it BEST to lose the fat. And I contend it is not unless you lose it very, very slowly and very carefully. In most cases fat loss will lower BMR and cause hormonal imalances, release a lot of toxins and actually cause worse health that may not be easy to recover from, especially for men and women in their 50s and beyond, who are already in poor health.

Today's message is always "lose weight and you will solve your problems" but I think it's "lose weight and you will be in worse health" 95% of the time.

This is NOT arguing that being fat is good. But once fat, becoming thin is not usually the answer.

I think being fat is a result of metabolic problems. Just losing weight doesn't fix the problems and will quite possibly lead to cancer. But fixing the metabolic problems will often result in weight loss or at least make it much easier.

In almost every case, men and women who get sick and are a bit overweight have better outcomes than thin people.

Peat has said:

Andrew: Would you start with what you think the ideal body fat percentage should be?
Ray: I think it varies according to gender and age. For example, young women who are overweight have better outcome of breast cancer (a lower incidence of breast cancer) than those who are underweight.
Sarah: And what are you saying [as] young women?
Ray: In the 20's and 30's. And one of the greatest increases in cancer is occurring among women between the ages of 25 and the early 30's. It's tripled in the last 30 or 40 years in that age group. But because of that relationship it's better for a young woman to be on the plump side...
Andrew: With saturated fats...
Ray: Yeah, if it's a good diet. And then in older people, being somewhat leaner for women is reducing the risk of breast cancer. But in old people in general mortality is lower with heavier body weight. They just have a greater resistance to stresses. So you have to look at the individual, and their age and gender. And overall mortality goes down in old people who are slightly on the heavy side.
Andrew: So it's very much relative to age then. Age and gender then, because obviously that percentage will change.
Sarah: I thought you said that older people who are slightly more plump have...
Andrew: Yeah, he did...
Sarah: Have a more decreased mortality.
Ray: Yeah, same with increased cholesterol. And a slight increase in blood pressure in old age is good. Same thing with...
Andrew: What do you think that body fat percentage would be then? 20%? 24%?
Ray: I think a little higher.
Sarah: That's pretty low.
Andrew: That's too low, huh?
Sarah: I remember when I was 19 I had it measured at 19%
Andrew: Ah, ok.
Sarah: The person said, "I don't think you'd ever be able to get pregnant at 19%."
Andrew: So how about 30%?
Ray: Yeah, I think 30%.

Excellent post.

 

[Broken man]

Higher Muscle Mass Index (MMI) linked with lower mortality

 

[ecstatichamster]

Higher Muscle Mass Index (MMI) linked with lower mortality

you are confusing the subject of this post, which is, is LOSING FAT the most important thing...

very few people are saying that BEING FAT is optimal...or that having muscles isn't a good idea. I mean, having lean mass is a great thing. But what if you are ALREADY FAT.

 

[tca300]

Men with huge muscles are not showing good health. It may display status but it indicates a lot of stress.

I'm not aware that muscle guys have longer or healthier lifespans.

I think 25% body fat is probably good as you age. I think 10% to 15% is too low unless that's already your "set" BMI and you're fine with that.

Whatever it is, the question is, if you are TOO FAT, is it BEST to lose the fat. And I contend it is not unless you lose it very, very slowly and very carefully. In most cases fat loss will lower BMR and cause hormonal imalances, release a lot of toxins and actually cause worse health that may not be easy to recover from, especially for men and women in their 50s and beyond, who are already in poor health.

Today's message is always "lose weight and you will solve your problems" but I think it's "lose weight and you will be in worse health" 95% of the time.

This is NOT arguing that being fat is good. But once fat, becoming thin is not usually the answer.

I think being fat is a result of metabolic problems. Just losing weight doesn't fix the problems and will quite possibly lead to cancer. But fixing the metabolic problems will often result in weight loss or at least make it much easier.

In almost every case, men and women who get sick and are a bit overweight have better outcomes than thin people.

Peat has said:

Andrew: Would you start with what you think the ideal body fat percentage should be?
Ray: I think it varies according to gender and age. For example, young women who are overweight have better outcome of breast cancer (a lower incidence of breast cancer) than those who are underweight.
Sarah: And what are you saying [as] young women?
Ray: In the 20's and 30's. And one of the greatest increases in cancer is occurring among women between the ages of 25 and the early 30's. It's tripled in the last 30 or 40 years in that age group. But because of that relationship it's better for a young woman to be on the plump side...
Andrew: With saturated fats...
Ray: Yeah, if it's a good diet. And then in older people, being somewhat leaner for women is reducing the risk of breast cancer. But in old people in general mortality is lower with heavier body weight. They just have a greater resistance to stresses. So you have to look at the individual, and their age and gender. And overall mortality goes down in old people who are slightly on the heavy side.
Andrew: So it's very much relative to age then. Age and gender then, because obviously that percentage will change.
Sarah: I thought you said that older people who are slightly more plump have...
Andrew: Yeah, he did...
Sarah: Have a more decreased mortality.
Ray: Yeah, same with increased cholesterol. And a slight increase in blood pressure in old age is good. Same thing with...
Andrew: What do you think that body fat percentage would be then? 20%? 24%?
Ray: I think a little higher.
Sarah: That's pretty low.
Andrew: That's too low, huh?
Sarah: I remember when I was 19 I had it measured at 19%
Andrew: Ah, ok.
Sarah: The person said, "I don't think you'd ever be able to get pregnant at 19%."
Andrew: So how about 30%?
Ray: Yeah, I think 30%.

Ray is talking about women in that post. Also he said heavier body weight, no more body fat is better, which goes along with many studies showing maintenance of lean mass into old age is one of the best predictors of longevity.
" In the resting state, muscles consume mainly fats, so maintaining relatively large muscles is important for preventing the accumulation of fats.” Ray Peat
The higher the body fat percentage the higher amount of aromatase, because the fatter you get the more PUFA you will have in tissues.