Is Losing Bodyfat The Most Important Thing?

[jitsmonkey]

not a sheep nor ostrich, opposable thumbs. Definitely primateish.

I think you mistakenly took my comment as snark or chicanery.
I apologize if I was unclear.
I was serious.

 

[tara]

And this thread is all about fat loss (it's in thread title). I've been really clear in asking about how to lose body fat, not "weight" (whatever that is). I mean, who the heck would want to loose muscle, bone, etc anyway? And there was also a discussion about lean vs skinny in the beginning of this thread. We all agreed how awesome it is to have lots of muscle and low body fat, so this was about how to loose fat.

Yeah, lots of people want to lose fat without losing any protein or bone mass. But I imagine most people who succeed in losing fat also unintentionally lose lean weight too. It's not just muscle and bone that's worth keeping, either. There are other organs I personally would prefer not to catabolise unnecessarily.

The most important thing is the first 3 words of this reply of yours ...

I think I might agree with this. Most people who think this area is completely straightforward probably haven't understood very much of it yet. :)

 

[cyclops]

Yeah, lots of people want to lose fat without losing any protein or bone mass. But I imagine most people who succeed in losing fat also unintentionally lose lean weight too.

Yeah, but there is a way of eating and training to maximize fat loss while minimizing lean weight loss. They obviously were able to compare people who lost "fat" to people who lost "weight" in that study in order to say fat loss makes you live longer and weight loss make you live less.

It's not just muscle and bone that's worth keeping, either. There are other organs I personally would prefer not to catabolise unnecessarily.

I had an etc in there. I like my organs too.

 

[jitsmonkey]

Yeah, but there is a way of eating and training to maximize fat loss while minimizing lean weight loss.

If this was a question I'd say "you're asking the wrong question."
Instead its much worse... a declaration.

the right question to be asking is

Is there a way of eating and training to maximize metabolism so fat loss can happen with either none or the least amount of distress/harm possible?

that would be the right question.

and the answer to that question would be "affirmative" (maybe)
but it would NOT prioritize fat loss as "the most important thing" as your thread title asked.

 

[cyclops]

but it would NOT prioritize fat loss as "the most important thing" as your thread title asked.

I think you're saying that prioritizing NOT ruining your health and metabolism would be the most important thing, not the fat loss?

I assumed that's a given. Of course I do not want to ruin my health in order to lose body fat. That would be stupid. I meant that if a person does not have any other major health problems (they have good temps, sleeping good, etc) should losing body fat be there priority if they have too much body fat.

And yes I'd love to discuss the safest and best ways on how to do this.

 

[jitsmonkey]

I think you're saying that prioritizing NOT ruining your health and metabolism would be the most important thing, not the fat loss?

I assumed that's a given. Of course I do not want to ruin my health in order to lose body fat. That would be stupid. I meant that if a person does not have any other major health problems (they have good temps, sleeping good, etc) should losing body fat be there priority if they have too much body fat.

um. not a given.

 

[cyclops]

um. not a given.

On this forum I think it is. Ray Peat is all about keeping temps and metabolism up. Keeping stress hormones down. Blocking FFA.

I'd think any question about burning body fat would be met with recommendations of how to it as safely as possible in line with Peat's work.

 

[jitsmonkey]

On this forum I think it is. Ray Peat is all about keeping temps and metabolism up. Keeping stress hormones down. Blocking FFA.

I'd think any question about burning body fat would be met with recommendations of how to it as safely as possible in line with Peat's work.

I'm well aware of Ray''s ideas. My first email with him was before the turn of the century.

We will just have to disagree on what's safe to assume here.

 

[m_arch]

I think leaner is good if youre in these categories: 10-15% male, 20-30% female bodyfat

Lower than that not optimal for hormones

You want to be lean, but also have muscle. Without lifting this is youthful, you have high hormone production (but balanced) so you naturally have strong muscles, ligaments, organs and thyroid function.

Starving yourself kills this second part of the equation. But its not ideal to be fat either

 

[cyclops]

I think leaner is good if youre in these categories: 10-15% male, 20-30% female bodyfat

Yea, I'd agree with this. I think most every man would look and feel great between 10-15% body fat (assuming good health otherwise and decent muscle mass). I think its an achievable goal and one would be able to maintain it with good diet and training.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I think much higher fat is probably better especially as we age.

 

[cyclops]

I think much higher fat is probably better especially as we age.

What percent? At what age? Why? For all men the same?

 

[Broken man]

Its not about fat but about muscle, there is article that bodybuilders have better health. So more muscle= less body fat. If you want lose fat through increase in muscle mass, its good. I have body fat because I store toxins because I have bad digestion. Last 2 months, I am eating more saturated fat instead of carbs. I think whole milk, cheese.... I lost about 5 kg easily, more energy, stable blood sugar....I think its because when you will go low fat, you cant provide enough nutrients. Best thing is experimentation. I know that being fat is bad unless you have dementia or something like this. When you will search here, you will find that alot of members gain fat arpund middle. They must eat every hour or so.... My macros are 30/35/35 and I am happy. If you are interested write me or search for @JamesIV posts.

 

[lollipop]

Its not about fat but about muscle, there is article that bodybuilders have better health. So more muscle= less body fat. If you want lose fat through increase in muscle mass, its good. I have body fat because I store toxins because I have bad digestion. Last 2 months, I am eating more saturated fat instead of carbs. I think whole milk, cheese.... I lost about 5 kg easily, more energy, stable blood sugar....I think its because when you will go low fat, you cant provide enough nutrients. Best thing is experimentation. I know that being fat is bad unless you have dementia or something like this. When you will search here, you will find that alot of members gain fat arpund middle. They must eat every hour or so.... My macros are 30/35/35 and I am happy. If you are interested write me or search for @JamesIV posts.

About a few months ago I stopped tracking my macros but like you, I am finding after a few years on a Peat inspired diet, that a more balanced ratio works really well for me. No extremes in any direction - same with movement. Really eating meals only and nice mixed macros, nutrient dense.

 

[cyclops]

.I think its because when you will go low fat, you cant provide enough nutrients.

Why do you say that? You can still include a couple eggs, some liver, oysters, fruit, skim dairy, potatoes on a very low fat diet. Vegetables too if you want. I think you can easily get all nutrients on a low fat diet.

 

[cyclops]

I think Martin Berkhan from Leangains is a good example of a guy who lost body fat and maintained it, while improving his health and quality of life. By the looks of these pictures, he had soft body fat on him at one time and got very ripped. He really does look great and he maintains it. Sometimes in these "before and after getting ripped" pics the person did not look that bad before and doesn't really look that great after if you look close enough. Sometimes you can tell they don't have much muscle or hormones are messed up. But not Martin, he was really soft before and got all that blubber off of him. He's actually not that "big" either if you see him in clothes and he's pretty damn strong too. Btw, he does intermittent fasting and seems to favor somewhat "peaty" foods eating lots of meat, potatoes, mushrooms, milk, fruits, coffee.

If one does not have any other major health problems and looks more like Martin in the first pic, I don't see why you wouldn't make your goal to lose body fat if you have the discipline and drive to do it. I can only imagine you'll feel better in the long run.

I just don't buy that Martin would have been better off staying how he looked in the first picture. That it would have been better for him to have those love handles and now he's unhealthier because of the fat loss.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I think its because when you will go low fat, you cant provide enough nutrients.

False.

 

[tca300]

Avoiding excess adipose tissue in the first place, is best.
Dont let yourself get to the point where you have to lose 30+lbs just to look the way you want.

Based on my experiance and observations, being fat is incompatible with optimal health, mostly because no fat person has fat stores composed of pure saturated fat.

Also being a father, its important to be able to be comfortably active for my children. Trying to keep up with an extra 50lbs is not easy.

Best of luck to the pro fat group. Even though the irony is, you all will try to lose fat at some point ( if you haven't already ), just wait and see.

 

[Collden]

You have not noticed that Martin is also very hypothyroid? He barely has eyebrows anymore.

There are extremely few examples of fat people who lose a lot of weight and look healthier as a result, when comparing before and after photos its almost always apparent that they incurred some kind of hormonal deficiency in the process. Just about the only example I know of a person who lost weight and apparently improved his hormonal status is that guy who lost a 100lbs at a Muay Thai retreat (Obese boxing fan who lost eight stone on year-long Thai fitness camp was stopped on his way home by border guards who didn't recognise him from ID photo | Daily Mail Online), but probably this was more due to the hormonal benefits of martial arts training/competition and sunlight, more than the fat loss itself.

 

[cyclops]

You have not noticed that Martin is also very hypothyroid? He barely has eyebrows anymore.

There are extremely few examples of fat people who lose a lot of weight and look healthier as a result, when comparing before and after photos its almost always apparent that they incurred some kind of hormonal deficiency in the process. Just about the only example I know of a person who lost weight and apparently improved his hormonal status is that guy who lost a 100lbs at a Muay Thai retreat (Obese boxing fan who lost eight stone on year-long Thai fitness camp was stopped on his way home by border guards who didn't recognise him from ID photo | Daily Mail Online), but probably this was more due to the hormonal benefits of martial arts training/competition and sunlight, more than the fat loss itself.

No I don't notice his eyebrows. He went from a beached whale to shredded beef and you're talking about his eyebrows...then you show me a guy who went from fat to chubby. Martin looks way better and healthier lean. And now that he's lean he can work on his health from being lean if he has any other issues. I don't get how anyone could say he would have been better off keeping the fat on him.

Avoiding excess adipose tissue in the first place, is best.
Dont let yourself get to the point where you have to lose 30+lbs just to look the way you want.

No doubt but for those of us who let ourselves go, we need to figure out the best way to get this blubber off of us.