Is it really possible to be skinny and hypothyroid?

[mrchibbs]

I personally have to be careful not to gain weight. I know this is not how people eat in this forum, but I have to eat just one meal a day, and some fruits in between to keep or loose weight. I have no idea if i have hypothyroidism or not. My temperature would certainly indicate that, but then I am wondering if RP is right about that temperature thing; maybe this is just his 'opinion'. My heart rate is high, like 80. All I can tell is that supplementing with Thyroid, natural or T3, changed nothing. Like now, i have the Thyroid-S from Thailand, and even if eat 10 grains, I don't feel a thing.

The temperature aspect is not really Ray's opinion. It was the fundamental diagnosis tool 50-60 years ago. If you go back and look at medical encyclopedias from the 40s and 50s you can see that clearly. It is pretty uncontroversial, if your temperature is low you're hypothyroid it's that simple. And you can definitely have a high heart rate independent of that, especially if you are on just one meal a day, I would not be surprised if you're running high on adrenaline a lot of the time.

I would think taking 10 grains with just one meal a day is not really something that should work, such a high amount would increase your calorie requirements substantially, so not surprising that you don't see benefits. I think nutrition and thyroid supplementation go hand and hand and should increase in lockstep. I personally needed about 4 grains for a while. Broda Barnes said 2,3,4 grains tops. Some people require more these days because life is so messed up, but 10 is likely overkill, especially since you're eating so little.

 

[Kris]

I personally have to be careful not to gain weight. I know this is not how people eat in this forum, but I have to eat just one meal a day, and some fruits in between to keep or loose weight. I have no idea if i have hypothyroidism or not. My temperature would certainly indicate that, but then I am wondering if RP is right about that temperature thing; maybe this is just his 'opinion'. My heart rate is high, like 80. All I can tell is that supplementing with Thyroid, natural or T3, changed nothing. Like now, i have the Thyroid-S from Thailand, and even if eat 10 grains, I don't feel a thing.

The temperature aspect is not really Ray's opinion. It was the fundamental diagnosis tool 50-60 years ago. If you go back and look at medical encyclopedias from the 40s and 50s you can see that clearly. It is pretty uncontroversial, if your temperature is low you're hypothyroid it's that simple. And you can definitely have a high heart rate independent of that, especially if you are on just one meal a day, I would not be surprised if you're running high on adrenaline a lot of the time.

I would think taking 10 grains with just one meal a day is not really something that should work, such a high amount would increase your calorie requirements substantially, so not surprising that you don't see benefits. I think nutrition and thyroid supplementation go hand and hand and should increase in lockstep. I personally needed about 4 grains for a while. Broda Barnes said 2,3,4 grains tops. Some people require more these days because life is so messed up, but 10 is likely overkill, especially since you're eating so little.

No, I take usually 4 grains, but I just made an experiment with 10 grains to see what happens. How often and what do you eat? It seems that many people here eat 'all the time'. Shouldn't we eat when we are hungry instead of overfeeding ourselves?

 

[mrchibbs]

No, I take usually 4 grains, but I just made an experiment with 10 grains to see what happens. How often and what do you eat? It seems that many people here eat 'all the time'. Shouldn't we eat when we are hungry instead of overfeeding ourselves?

I certainly don't overfeed myself. You should definitely only eat when you are hungry of course but sometimes we get into a certain groove where we don't eat enough, for many reasons but often it's just that the stress hormones are too high and it wrecks appetite. Your relatively high pulse and low temperature suggests that to me. Cyproheptadine can be useful to knock off the stress hormones and get you to eat more. Milk can be most helpful here because it's an easy source of calories. Whole milk in particular.

 

[Apple]

I personally have to be careful not to gain weight. I know this is not how people eat in this forum, but I have to eat just one meal a day, and some fruits in between to keep or loose weight. I have no idea if i have hypothyroidism or not. My temperature would certainly indicate that, but then I am wondering if RP is right about that temperature thing; maybe this is just his 'opinion'. My heart rate is high, like 80. All I can tell is that supplementing with Thyroid, natural or T3, changed nothing. Like now, i have the Thyroid-S from Thailand, and even if eat 10 grains, I don't feel a thing. All you could say that I need to eat more, but even if I eat regularly, my temperature remains the same. i can never get to 37C even when measured in the middle of a day. maybe I should try to drink milk, i don't particular like it; i prefer other dairy products.

Ray probably got this idea from Broda Barnes (also from Oregon) and speaking of which his thyroid treatment/"Barnes Basal Temperature Test" was never widely accepted but it is popular among alternative medicine practitioners.
He has suspiciously similar to RP ideas about using thyroid:
Barnes treated hypothyroidism by prescribing patients a daily dose of thyroid hormone. He recommended starting with a small dose, and then slowly increasing the dosage in monthly intervals until symptoms resolved and waking body temperature was between 97.8F and 98.2F. He also recommended never surpassing 3 grains of desiccated thyroid. For most patients, he recommended continuing thyroid medication for life at that optimal dose, though some could be slowly weaned off.

Barnes believed that many common diseases, including heart disease, cancer, depression, arthritis, diabetes, the common cold, tonsillitis, ear infections, apparent laziness in children, various menstrual disorders, and skin disorders, were all caused or exacerbated by hypothyroidism.

Interestingly, all deceases of our time were same common in Barnes's time (40s to 70s).

So, your heart rate is 80 and you think it is not enough so you are supplementing with Thyroid ? wow...

 

[Dr. B]

[Do you think all athletes should supplement thyroid?] No, if the diet and level of activity are right, it shouldn't be necessary. - Ray Peat

If I’m not mistaken, he also says younger individuals shouldn’t need thyroid and can heal themselves via diet and proper sleep.

does he mean standalone T3 only or also the thyroid glandular like just raw thyroid gland eaten as a meat or freeze dried and capsule form

 

[Apple]

The temperature concept makes a lot of sense. Heat is energy. So the heat produced by your cells seems like a sensible measure of their energy production.

Plus, it's not just Ray's idea.

"As low temperature rises with thyroid treatment, the symptoms associated with hypothyroidism will disappear." -- Broda Barnes, PhD, MD

I'm wondering what if someone uses energy a different way, instead of producing heat one is used to convert energy into brain activity ?
He maybe having a colder temperature but higher brain activity.
Brain is responsible for massive uptake of energy.
Anatoly Karpov, an elite Russian player who was competing for the title. Over the preceding five months and dozens of matches, Karpov had lost 22 lbs. (10 kilograms). Elite chess players can reportedly burn up to an estimated 6,000 calories in one day.

We know that the brain uses up a startling 20% to 25% of the body's overall energy, mainly in the form of glucose. "In the average 5- to 6-year-old, the brain can use upwards of 60% of the body's energy".

 

[mrchibbs]

Ray probably got this idea from Broda Barnes (also from Oregon) and speaking of which his thyroid treatment/"Barnes Basal Temperature Test" was never widely accepted but it is popular among alternative medicine practitioners.
He has suspiciously similar to RP ideas about using thyroid:
Barnes treated hypothyroidism by prescribing patients a daily dose of thyroid hormone. He recommended starting with a small dose, and then slowly increasing the dosage in monthly intervals until symptoms resolved and waking body temperature was between 97.8F and 98.2F. He also recommended never surpassing 3 grains of desiccated thyroid. For most patients, he recommended continuing thyroid medication for life at that optimal dose, though some could be slowly weaned off.

Barnes believed that many common diseases, including heart disease, cancer, depression, arthritis, diabetes, the common cold, tonsillitis, ear infections, apparent laziness in children, various menstrual disorders, and skin disorders, were all caused or exacerbated by hypothyroidism.

Interestingly, all deceases of our time were same common in Barnes's time (40s to 70s).

So, your heart rate is 80 and you think it is not enough so you are supplementing with Thyroid ? wow...

I'm confused...what do you mean ''probably''?

Ray has talked about Broda Barnes for years, constantly. Almost everyone on the forum who's dug into hypothyroidism has read or knows Hypothyroidism: The Unsuspected Ilness. It's not some mystery.

Broda Barnes wrote books and became famous, but the core of the approach regarding pulse and temperature predates even him. It was the accepted standard of medecine even in the 1920s and 1930s.

Regarding heart rate, it can be elevated with insufficient thyroid function, that's what adrenaline is there for...

 

[Kris]

I'm confused...what do you mean ''probably''?

Ray has talked about Broda Barnes for years, constantly. Almost everyone on the forum who's dug into hypothyroidism has read or knows Hypothyroidism: The Unsuspected Ilness. It's not some mystery.

Broda Barnes wrote books and became famous, but the core of the approach regarding pulse and temperature predates even him. It was the accepted standard of medecine even in the 1920s and 1930s.

Regarding heart rate, it can be elevated with insufficient thyroid function, that's what adrenaline is there for...

I know about Broda Barnes, and that RP got this idea from him. But what if Barnes was wrong???

 

[Kris]

I'm wondering what if someone uses energy a different way, instead of producing heat one is used to convert energy into brain activity ?
He maybe having a colder temperature but higher brain activity.
Brain is responsible for massive uptake of energy.
Anatoly Karpov, an elite Russian player who was competing for the title. Over the preceding five months and dozens of matches, Karpov had lost 22 lbs. (10 kilograms). Elite chess players can reportedly burn up to an estimated 6,000 calories in one day.

We know that the brain uses up a startling 20% to 25% of the body's overall energy, mainly in the form of glucose. "In the average 5- to 6-year-old, the brain can use upwards of 60% of the body's energy".

Funny that you mention this. I was a chess-player before. in fact, a champion of my country in my younger age. and I was a Buddhist monk (I no longer agree with their concept of spirituality). Now I am a spiritual teacher conducting long meditation retreats. so maybe my brain is taking too much energy :). Chess-players actually do not think so much, their mind is very concentrated. The problem with people is that they constantly think, they cannot stop the mind because they do not have access to consciousness beyond the mind.

 

[mrchibbs]

I know about Broda Barnes, and that RP got this idea from him. But what if Barnes was wrong???

It wasn't just Broda Barnes, he just made it popular.

 

[Apple]

Funny that you mention this. I was a chess-player before. in fact, a champion of my country in my younger age. and I was a Buddhist monk (I no longer agree with their concept of spirituality). Now I am a spiritual teacher conducting long meditation retreats. so maybe my brain is taking too much energy :). Chess-players actually do not think so much, their mind is very concentrated. The problem with people is that they constantly think, they cannot stop the mind because they do not have access to consciousness beyond the mind.

I think mental concentration/contemplation consumes lots of energy ... like you take energy from your body and focus it on something else. The more intense focus the less energy left for body so it goes into some kind of stupor. It was dicussed on different forums, often yogins don't live long unless they are into life extension practices.
Or...unless they are familiar with RP concept about energy and nutrition...
People who do science are pretty often slim/gaunted.
It is known that mental activity , while eating, impairs digestion .

 

[Kris]

I think mental concentration/contemplation consumes lots of energy ... like you take energy from your body and focus it on something else. The more intense focus the less energy left for body so it goes into some kind of stupor. It was dicussed on different forums, often yogins don't live long unless they are into life extension practices.
Or...unless they are familiar with RP concept about energy and nutrition...
People who do science are pretty often slim/gaunted.
It is known that mental activity , while eating, impairs digestion .

depending on what kind of concentration, and mind is part of the body. for instance, i am sure you are familiar with the concept of mindfulness, such as to be present and to prevent getting sucked into the mind's thinking. This is what I call 'spirituality for babies'. it does take energy, but it also gives you energy, it regenerate your energy. it is lethargy that takes energy away from you, because the lethargy is in the mind and it affects the body.

even going for a walk takes energy, but after you feel more energised. I don't know about Yogis, as they often follow the wrong spiritual protocol, and starved themselves; self-mortification was always part of religions, including that stupid Christianity, which creates so much guilt (the original sin) that the only way to redeem yourself is by self-punishment. Now we are oppressed by people with money and governments, but in the past we are oppressed by the tyranny of religions. We still are, because they have ingrained themselves in collective consciousness. I do not want to offend anyone's religious believes, or maybe I do. I come from Poland where everyone is Catholic, but you get the same bs in USA. I just hate stupidity.

I would think that the main reason of people being so unhealthy, including this forum, is that they are just unconscious of their true self. Unconsciousness is toxic and stressful.

 

[Vins7]

Taking thyroid and drinking more milk.

Raw milk or homogenized milk?

 

[Kris]

It wasn't just Broda Barnes, he just made it popular.

what about the fact that creatures with high metabolic rate live short life? while those with lower metabolic rate live very long?

 

[mrchibbs]

what about the fact that creatures with high metabolic rate live short life? while those with lower metabolic rate live very long?

I don't think that is a real argument. Parrots have really high metabolic rates and live extremely long.

 

[Kris]

I don't think that is a real argument. Parrots have really high metabolic rates and live extremely long.

I did not know that. but still, we are not birds, are we? last time I checked, we are mammals.

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[Dr. B]

I did not know that. but still, we are not birds, are we? last time I checked, we are mammals.

Do People With Slow Metabolisms Live Longer?

The last time you heard or read about the mysterious metabolism, there’s a high likelihood that you were given instructions on how to speed it up. We’re told left and right that various workout routines keep our bodies burning energy at a superpower…

www.bustle.com

Humans' slow metabolisms explain long life span, study says

Primates burn 50% fewer calories than other mammals, and a new animal study suggests that the slow metabolisms of humans and other primates contribute to a longer life.

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isnt it the highest metabolism humans who live longest

 

[Kris]

isnt it the highest metabolism humans who live longest

is there are a proof for that assumption?

 

[Kris]

dogs and monkeys have higher body temperature than humans and they live shorter. just as an example.

anyway, food for thought. maybe that idea of having high body temperature is completely wrong. i am not saying it is; but it is good to question things or else we become dogmatic. sorry to questioning the RP holy bible. i just hope i will not get burnt on stake here :)

Humans' slow metabolisms explain long life span, study says

Primates burn 50% fewer calories than other mammals, and a new animal study suggests that the slow metabolisms of humans and other primates contribute to a longer life.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

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[Dr. B]

dogs and monkeys have higher body temperature than humans and they live shorter. just as an example.

anyway, food for thought. maybe that idea of having high body temperature is completely wrong. i am not saying it is; but it is good to question things or else we become dogmatic. sorry to questioning the RP holy bible. i just hope i will not get burnt on stake here :)

Humans' slow metabolisms explain long life span, study says

Primates burn 50% fewer calories than other mammals, and a new animal study suggests that the slow metabolisms of humans and other primates contribute to a longer life.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

Study Suggests That Yes, Metabolism Does Start to Slow over a Lifespan, but Perhaps Not When We Might Think

Study results shed new light on human development and aging, and could help to shape targeted nutrition and health strategies across the human lifespan.

www.genengnews.com

Does a High Metabolism Make You Age Faster?

A new study claims that people with higher metabolic rates age faster and die younger than people without them. Is it true?

www.podiumrunner.com

A New Theory on Longevity | Harvard Magazine

Caloric restriction, touted as a possible way to increase human life span, has gotten a lot of press lately. Research on rats and mice has shown...

www.harvardmagazine.com

brain to body ratio determines longevity and is related to metabolism, dogs/monkeys may not have the level of metabolism isnt it dolphins and whales whom are comparable and they actually do live similar lifespans