Is It Immoral To Give Peat Recommended Drugs To Potential Coronavirus Patient Without Telling Them

Beastmode

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Who here actually pays attention to what the FDA considers appropriate or safe for someone?

It's like everyone believing the News all of a sudden now.

:seenoevil:o_O
 

jzeno

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1) Right to try is your right (thanks to Trump): Trump signs drug law for terminally ill

2) Dr Faucci poo poos HCQ. Let's see where he is on this global list of experts in communicable diseases: Communicable Diseases: Worldwide - Expertscape.com

Oh look. He's #36 (far right column). Dr Didier Raoult the doctor who first prescribe HCQ + Z-packs and Zinc? Oh well would you look at that. He's #1 (again, far right column).

3) Sadly, although the wuhan flu is not terminal and your husband may likely survive, I'm sorry to say you may not survive your stage 4 TDS

Peer-reviewed study with 100% success rate (all patients showed reduction of symptoms without adverse side effects) by Dr. Raoult: Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin as a treatment of COVID-19.pdf

Ever wonder why India has less than 1000 deaths? (https://www.google.com/search?q=ind...rome..69i57.5880j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8). It's because it's a Malaria prone country and drugs like HCQ are available without a prescription. It even acts as a preventative. Would you look at that... Even if India isn't testing their death rate in a country with such a huge population with terrible sanitation is puny. I counted less than 200 deaths!
 

SOMO

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You should do everything in your power to save your loved one.

Morality is subjective, except in extreme cases of rape and murder.
 
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alywest

alywest

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1) Right to try is your right (thanks to Trump): Trump signs drug law for terminally ill

2) Dr Faucci poo poos HCQ. Let's see where he is on this global list of experts in communicable diseases: Communicable Diseases: Worldwide - Expertscape.com

Oh look. He's #36 (far right column). Dr Didier Raoult the doctor who first prescribe HCQ + Z-packs and Zinc? Oh well would you look at that. He's #1 (again, far right column).

3) Sadly, although the wuhan flu is not terminal and your husband may likely survive, I'm sorry to say you may not survive your stage 4 TDS

Peer-reviewed study with 100% success rate (all patients showed reduction of symptoms without adverse side effects) by Dr. Raoult: Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin as a treatment of COVID-19.pdf

Ever wonder why India has less than 1000 deaths? (https://www.google.com/search?q=ind...rome..69i57.5880j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8). It's because it's a Malaria prone country and drugs like HCQ are available without a prescription. It even acts as a preventative. Would you look at that... Even if India isn't testing their death rate in a country with such a huge population with terrible sanitation is puny. I counted less than 200 deaths!
You seem to be mistaken in how typical hospital situations work, however, despite what Mr. Trump and Dr. Raoult may say. When you go you are in their hands. They don't like suggestions or your bright ideas, even if they are based in research and hifalutin peer-reviewed studies. I could explain "Dr. Peat is a very intelligent person who has said that losartan and cyproheptadine could be quite helpful in this disease," do you actually think that they're going to care? If he fits the parameters of someone who needs to be ventilated, they will ventilate. They live by blood oxygen saturation levels.
 
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alywest

alywest

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Who here actually pays attention to what the FDA considers appropriate or safe for someone?

It's like everyone believing the News all of a sudden now.

:seenoevil:o_O
I'm not a fan of the FDA but the doctors in hospital and clinical situations have to abide by their recommendations. Perhaps high blood pressure during this illness could warrant a temporary prescription to losartan, as it happens to be the most widely prescribed drug for hypertension. I think what tends to happen in the long run is that blood pressure actually drops to well below normal which is when they know you're not doing too well. High blood pressure=your body's still fighting to rid itself of toxins. Still dangerous as prolonged HBP can result in stroke, cardiac arrest, etc. Super low pressure=body is shutting down, organs start failing. Since losartan works at the angiotensin receptor level, it's not necessarily going to drop blood pressure like a diuretic would.
 
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alywest

alywest

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You should do everything in your power to save your loved one.

Morality is subjective, except in extreme cases of rape and murder.
Thanks SOMO, I tend to agree with you. My kids can't lose their dad. On a good note, the cypro alone actually seemed to have helped. This morning he looked like a zombie, with no color in his face, but he asked me for some soup and toast with butter and the color is back and I can't help but think the cypro is helping him to keep his appetite up. He didn't sleep great last night, but I assume that's also due to the fact that he tends to have apneas that wake him up, and of course those get worse for people when they're sick. I have told him about the apneas and he hasn't sought treatment. He's the kind who won't go to the doctor until he is practically dying.
 

SOMO

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You seem to be mistaken in how typical hospital situations work, however, despite what Mr. Trump and Dr. Raoult may say. When you go you are in their hands. They don't like suggestions or your bright ideas, even if they are based in research and hifalutin peer-reviewed studies.

Doctors are authoritarian and I agree with you that they don't like suggestions.

Recently I was in the ER for a cyst which I had for almost a month and which was extremely painful.

When they tried to give my Tylenol, I denied it and told them I won't take it because it makes me feel unwell and, in my opinion, I don't think it's a safe medication. 2 nurses tried to literally pressure me into taking it, instead of respecting my wishes. I told them I knew a girl who died from liver failure from 4 Tylenol, so they finally gave me some IV NSAID and IV antibiotics and it helped a lot almost immediately.
 

SOMO

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Thanks SOMO, I tend to agree with you. My kids can't lose their dad. On a good note, the cypro alone actually seemed to have helped. This morning he looked like a zombie, with no color in his face, but he asked me for some soup and toast with butter and the color is back and I can't help but think the cypro is helping him to keep his appetite up. He didn't sleep great last night, but I assume that's also due to the fact that he tends to have apneas that wake him up, and of course those get worse for people when they're sick. I have told him about the apneas and he hasn't sought treatment. He's the kind who won't go to the doctor until he is practically dying.

That's great. For the apnea, maybe show him some youtube videos on Buteyko breathing? Some people on this forum and others tape their mouth when they go to sleep, to avoid breathing through the mouth at night - which results in poor oxygenation, losing CO2 and poor sleep.

I think Cypro is very safe and I gave it to my partner before for extreme insomnia that was actually causing him to behave very erratically/noticeable mood changes. It was actually scaring me. I told him it was over-the-counter, but I didn't mention in which country :P

It's easy to say "Let people experiment and discover what works for them" if you don't know the person. But when you see someone close to you actually struggling with a physical problem, it's a bit different.

I also gave Cypro to my dog when he was teething, because I could tell the teeth growing were causing him intense pain (his gums were swollen and there was some blood from where the teeth were piercing through the gums). My dog is normally very energetic and playful, but when he was teething, he would just lay all day with a sad look on his face, bite on his toys. He was chewing his food on only one side of his mouth.

I gave him a tiny bit of cypro (less than 0.5mg) to help him sleep and when he woke up the next day he was in much better spirits and was back to his energetic self.
If I went to a vet it would have cost me $250 for a 10 minute conversation and the vet would have probably not prescribed anything and told me to just "wait it out, the pain will go away on its own."
 
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lampofred

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I would get very angry if someone did something "for my own good" without asking me. I would say do your best to persuade him but don't deceive him.
 
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alywest

alywest

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If I went to a vet it would have cost me $250 for a 10 minute conversation and the vet would have probably not prescribed anything and told me to just "wait it out, the pain will go away on its own."
Or prescribed Tylenol! Hahaha
I think cypro is totally benign. Unisom and other brands sell diphenhydramine and doxylamine succinate (both antihistamines) as sleep aids OTC. And it actually seems to be helping a lot so I don’t feel bad about that.
@lampofred I gave my husband the pill, told him it would help with sleep and he took it-no further questions asked. Do you think that’s deceptive? It’s not an opiate and yet doctors will give opiates and other much worse meds without any approval from the patient. And he willingly took it.
 

lampofred

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@lampofred I gave my husband the pill, told him it would help with sleep and he took it-no further questions asked. Do you think that’s deceptive? It’s not an opiate and yet doctors will give opiates and other much worse meds without any approval from the patient. And he willingly took it.

I don't think that's deceptive at all. What I wouldn't be ok with is if someone crushed a pill and put it in my drink without me knowing.

Is he concerned that Losartan might not be safe? In the past I've convinced family members that it's safe to take supplements not recommended a doctor by taking those supplements myself in front of them and showing them nothing bad happened to me, but admittedly these were only supplements, not prescriptions, and these were not potentially life-or-death situations.

Maybe if he doesn't trust Peat, you could show him research done by the Chinese showing Losartan is safe and effective.
 
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alywest

alywest

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I don't think that's deceptive at all. What I wouldn't be ok with is if someone crushed a pill and put it in my drink without me knowing.

Is he concerned that Losartan might not be safe? In the past I've convinced family members that it's safe to take supplements not recommended a doctor by taking those supplements myself in front of them and showing them nothing bad happened to me, but admittedly these were only supplements, not prescriptions, and these were not potentially life-or-death situations.
I think he’s of the school that if it wasn’t prescribed to him by a doctor he isn’t going to take it. I’m sure it wouldn’t hurt him but it doesn’t sound good-“blood pressure medication”- but it is actually an ARB. He doesn’t understand receptors and all that. It’s stuff I’ve been researching on my own for years because of HT receptors and I kind of get how it works, but I think the common man isn’t going to want to think about it like that. Any pill is a risk and many on this forum are willing to take calculated risks, knowing that, for instance, the thyroid is oftentimes ignored unless TSH levels are super high (or low), and even then we are not given proper treatment. I have a prescription for t3 but I know the American stuff is crap. I know if I’m going to take t3 I need to get something from Mexico, specifically grossman’s cytomel. So should I just suffer with American t3 (aka liothyronine) because the pharmacies here don’t carry cytomel? Sorry but no. I’m not sure why the USA has banned the stuff. Many “advanced” countries seem to be against t3 supplementation. Why? What is the real reason? Why do we have to do so much research to have normal health? If I didn’t feel like ***t all the time I wouldn’t have ever bothered to learn all of this. In fact the better I’ve felt the more I’ve put it on the back burner. I even stopped taking cytomel for a time because levothyroxime with plenty of vitamins a and k2 and d3 seemed to be ok. But I notice in the morning I feel hypothyroid and I need to have a small crumb of cytomel to wake up. I already take at least two double shots of espresso. But my husband? Doesn’t need coffee, is probably somewhat low thyroid, but he has pretty good health. Gets great Erections, has a full head of hair including facial hair, gets depressed occasionally but not so much anymore. Deals with a SUPER high stress job which would throw me into a tailspin in days emotions and physically! But he handles it all pretty well. He doesn’t have time or interest in health so I do all of that for myself and I take care of the kiddos. I’ve shunned medications prescribed for doctors for my autistic son. I’m not a medication junky even though it might seem otherwise. I’d rather take nothing. I don’t want to give my husband anything. But if he’s going to be put on a ventilator, yeah I might crush up a losartan and put it in his 7up. And cross my fingers.
 

OliviaD

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AFAIK, docs aren't prescribing ivermectin to humans unless there's a damn good reason, and they are certainly not at the point of giving it to ppl for coronavirus except perhaps in trials. It definitely hasn't been approved for that use by the FDA yet. And I'm very familiar with Trump's favorite hydroxychloroquine, however I haven't been very interested in that as the results don't seem to be stellar even though it's obviously been given a fast pass through the FDA approval process (probably for the sake of helping Trump get re-elected.)
I'm not saying this be snarky; but you clearly don't work in medicine. Drugs are used 'off-label' i.e not for what they are FDA approved for ALL the time, and much scarier drugs than IVM and hydroxychloroquine - which are both drugs that have been around for decades and have some of the lowest side effect profiles known to the prescription drug world. For example.. look at what Prozac is prescribed for. Everything under the sun for people and dogs and it is even well known that it mostly damages people (and dogs).

They were very effective for treating the 'rona or whatever else anyone was sick with that was called that. They were used by front line in the trenches doctors initially b/c it made sense to use them for the types of symptoms they were seeing. And lives were saved b/c of them. And many lives have been lost because of the NON FDA approved at all Remdesevir which is the drug hospitals are mandated to use for 'Covid' patients. IVM was being used regularly for rheumatoid arthritis, lupus and some other conditions until it was vilified and suddenly pharmacists drugstore chain owners were given the right to refuse to fill prescriptions for patients.

I WILL tell you why doctors were not prescribing IVM (except for the 100s of ethical ones who participated and are still participating in the many programs that do online or telephone consults to prescribe). Recall, this whole charade is allowed to continue because we are in a 'state of emergency', AND the EXPERIMENTAL 'vaccines' were only able to be rolled out b/c there was NO OTHER EFFECTIVE TREATMENT. People were denied treatment that would have reduced suffering and death to facilitate "operation warp speed" - I believe that was DJT's 'baby'. (and I"m not making any statement about my politics, just stating that he was a big proponent of the jabs). It didn't matter who the president was.

I know this is an old post, but I thought your question was a great one, and interesting, and since you asked :) . Yes, I think it is immoral to give anyone in the situation you describe a medication without their consent. Your husband is not unconscious, incompetent, or unable to give consent at this time. His life is not in danger (no unlike what the media is telling you; 99. something something of people survive the 2019 flu season bug. Most people don't need any medication at all to get over a mild respiratory infection or the flu.

I know it is excruciating to have to stand by and watch the people we love make choices we don't agree with when it comes to their healthcare. I truly feel your pain there. But, they have the right to harm themselves and make bad decisions (I don't think your husband is -but if he was it still is his choice).
 

LadyRae

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I think he’s of the school that if it wasn’t prescribed to him by a doctor he isn’t going to take it. I’m sure it wouldn’t hurt him but it doesn’t sound good-“blood pressure medication”- but it is actually an ARB. He doesn’t understand receptors and all that. It’s stuff I’ve been researching on my own for years because of HT receptors and I kind of get how it works, but I think the common man isn’t going to want to think about it like that. Any pill is a risk and many on this forum are willing to take calculated risks, knowing that, for instance, the thyroid is oftentimes ignored unless TSH levels are super high (or low), and even then we are not given proper treatment. I have a prescription for t3 but I know the American stuff is crap. I know if I’m going to take t3 I need to get something from Mexico, specifically grossman’s cytomel. So should I just suffer with American t3 (aka liothyronine) because the pharmacies here don’t carry cytomel? Sorry but no. I’m not sure why the USA has banned the stuff. Many “advanced” countries seem to be against t3 supplementation. Why? What is the real reason? Why do we have to do so much research to have normal health? If I didn’t feel like ***t all the time I wouldn’t have ever bothered to learn all of this. In fact the better I’ve felt the more I’ve put it on the back burner. I even stopped taking cytomel for a time because levothyroxime with plenty of vitamins a and k2 and d3 seemed to be ok. But I notice in the morning I feel hypothyroid and I need to have a small crumb of cytomel to wake up. I already take at least two double shots of espresso. But my husband? Doesn’t need coffee, is probably somewhat low thyroid, but he has pretty good health. Gets great Erections, has a full head of hair including facial hair, gets depressed occasionally but not so much anymore. Deals with a SUPER high stress job which would throw me into a tailspin in days emotions and physically! But he handles it all pretty well. He doesn’t have time or interest in health so I do all of that for myself and I take care of the kiddos. I’ve shunned medications prescribed for doctors for my autistic son. I’m not a medication junky even though it might seem otherwise. I’d rather take nothing. I don’t want to give my husband anything. But if he’s going to be put on a ventilator, yeah I might crush up a losartan and put it in his 7up. And cross my fingers.
Update??
 
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He is a grown man that should be able to make his own decisions. I don’t think it is right to sneak any drug into his food.
 
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