Is it Crazy to take Ivermectin Every Day?

[Birdie]

I would avoid it the best I could. Probably one drink won't be a huge deal but it will amplify the concentration of IVM

I don't know if alcohol amplifies the concentration of IVM, or if something else is speculated. But the result for me is only a bit of wine a couple of times a week and many hours away from the IVM.
(But since I don't drink much these days anyway it's no change.)

 

[Hermes]

I don't know that alcohol amplifies the concentration of IVM. I think something else is speculated. But the result for me is only a bit of wine a couple of times a week and many hours away from the IVM.

What has your experience been with IVM so far?

 

[Tarmander]

I don't know if alcohol amplifies the concentration of IVM, or if something else is speculated. But the result for me is only a bit of wine a couple of times a week and many hours away from the IVM.
(But since I don't drink much these days anyway it's no change.)

These are some excerpts from my post on page 3, which is worth reading in full if you are going to take IVM. If you have IVM in your tissues, Alcohol may liberate. Either way, alcohol acts on similar receptors as IVM.

Since it hasn't been studied yet how mild side effects of IVM could be alleviated, the closest and well-studied drug that I could come up with is ethanol (consumable alcohol). Ethanol is known for its neurological effects as a recreational drug, so it is well understood how overdoses and chronic exposure affect the brain. Similar to IVM, ethanol is an allosteric modulator of GABAaR (pmid:12921221), nAChR (pmid:10215652), and GlyR (10.1016/j.phrs.2015.07.002). To be clear, these two drugs are only comparable for their effects on these three receptors and in the case of IVM crossing the BBB. Liver and cell toxicity of them are not comparable. Due to the synergic effects of ethanol and IVM in the brain, it is not surprising that severe adverse effects (SAE) often coincide with alcohol (and/or cannabinoid/hemp) consumption (10.1186/s40360-019-0327-5). These might be considered part of daily "nutrition" but can still increase the risk of side effects.

What else can influence GABA receptors? Without any drug interaction, GABAaR are normally activated by the neurotransmitter GABA (pmid:15704348). The precursor of GABA is Glutamate, though while GABA acts as an inhibitory neurotransmitter, Glutamate acts excitatory (10.1177/1073858402238515). These neurotransmitters should be in an effective balance. The active form of Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxal-5'-Phosphate) enables the synthesis of GABA from Glutamate (10.14581/jer.15018). Thus, high doses of B6 during IVM neurotoxicity might be counterproductive. Glutamate levels are also recycled from and to glutamine and α-ketoglutarate (10.1016/j.aninu.2015.08.008). α-ketoglutarate indirectly depends on glutamine intake and the activation of the citric acid cycle.

I hope this gave you a better understanding of the neurotoxic mechanism of IVM and why its toxicity in the brain is dose-dependant, just as it is dose-dependant for sedatives and alcohol intake. IVM, however, normally doesn't cross the BBB as ethanol does. Vitamin status, the one of thiamine in particular, can make a difference but this has to be adjusted many days before taking such drugs, and overdoses of vitamins can be as harmful as deficiencies. I've listed two herbal remedies (i.e., Ginko, and Kudzu) that might not only help with an alcohol-induced hangover but also with mild side effects of IVM. Of course, this only applies if and once side effects happen that are consistent with GABAaR overactivation. It's unlikely to help with joint pain and immunologically-mediated side effects, which can also occur after taking IVM. I've also clarified why alcohol should not be taken with IVM, from a neurological perspective alone. I'm certain that there are metabolic reasons as well, especially due to ethanol's effect on thiamin-dependant enzymes such as transketolase (pmid:591201). Remember, this is no medical advice.

I would not take alcohol with CFS/ME. I would not take it with pain killers or Ivermectin. Even 12h after taking Ivermectin, your blood concentration will be quite high. Even if your plasma concentration is low, days later, there will be a high tissue concentration and alcohol can dissolve it from the tissue. But my concern was primarily focused on the interaction of ethanol and Ivermectin on the same brain receptors, possibly worsening potential neurotoxicity.

Taurine could be counterproductive. Antihistamines as well (indirectly due to histamine-GABA interaction). Just during the initial period when you/they don't have a feeling for it yet. As I mentioned, it's extremely unlikely that toxic effects happen.

The neurotoxicity risks are negligible. You have greater risks from drinking alcohol. Dysfunctional MDR-1 genes aren't common. People with mutations in this gene would have an issue with taking medications anyway eventually, because many medications rely on this gene. If you start with a lower dose and increase the dose day by day, you can monitor if any side effects occur. If you feel dizzy or sleepy like you're drunk. That will be your limit. The drug itself isn't neurotoxic. It's just the dosage in the brain that can make it neurotoxic. Just like drinking ethanol. But ethanol always crosses the blood-brain barrier easily, Ivermectin only in very low concentrations.

 

[golder]

Raw meat helped when I was really low like in the 200s. I am usually in the 400s these days. It has just been a slow ramping up overtime with improvements made


Thank you for the story. I did a post earlier in the thread with some stuff on its neurotoxic effects, and from the person doing the research, it seemed to not have much more neurotoxicity then alcohol. You should also not mix alcohol with IVM either...But I will look more into it

Thanks for this. I’m looking to give raw meat a try, but I think I’ve got quite low stomach acid. In your experience what’s the best place to start? A few small slices of raw beef liver a few times per week?

 

[Tarmander]

Thanks for this. I’m looking to give raw meat a try, but I think I’ve got quite low stomach acid. In your experience what’s the best place to start? A few small slices of raw beef liver a few times per week?

Quax - A podcast for Health and Experimentation

quaxpodcast.com

Episodes 75 and 77

 

[Peatness]

Try this @Lizb

Ivermectin - LiverTox - NCBI Bookshelf

 

[Lizb]

Try this @Lizb

Ivermectin - LiverTox - NCBI Bookshelf

That's very good. Thank you.

 

[Birdie]

What has your experience been with IVM so far?

Thanks for asking.

My notes say I started it Dec 11th at 10 1/2 mg taken in the am empty stomach.
My last note is Jan 4 today. Dose is around 8mg now. After using 9 for a while, I switched to the paste, so two notches is about 8mg. Energy is much improved.

Talking with my husband today about the energy and he's noticed I have more also... Some joint pain is improved too.
I'm a little stunned over this progress.

I have a relative who is taking around 24mg a day.
Today she wrote: another day 100% here. no symptoms and surgical foot is perfect too! I wait for another week to know if it all has staying power though.

 

[Birdie]

These are some excerpts from my post on page 3, which is worth reading in full if you are going to take IVM. If you have IVM in your tissues, Alcohol may liberate. Either way, alcohol acts on similar receptors as IVM.

Since it hasn't been studied yet how mild side effects of IVM could be alleviated, the closest and well-studied drug that I could come up with is ethanol (consumable alcohol). Ethanol is known for its neurological effects as a recreational drug, so it is well understood how overdoses and chronic exposure affect the brain. Similar to IVM, ethanol is an allosteric modulator of GABAaR (pmid:12921221), nAChR (pmid:10215652), and GlyR (10.1016/j.phrs.2015.07.002). To be clear, these two drugs are only comparable for their effects on these three receptors and in the case of IVM crossing the BBB. Liver and cell toxicity of them are not comparable. Due to the synergic effects of ethanol and IVM in the brain, it is not surprising that severe adverse effects (SAE) often coincide with alcohol (and/or cannabinoid/hemp) consumption (10.1186/s40360-019-0327-5). These might be considered part of daily "nutrition" but can still increase the risk of side effects.

What else can influence GABA receptors? Without any drug interaction, GABAaR are normally activated by the neurotransmitter GABA (pmid:15704348). The precursor of GABA is Glutamate, though while GABA acts as an inhibitory neurotransmitter, Glutamate acts excitatory (10.1177/1073858402238515). These neurotransmitters should be in an effective balance. The active form of Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxal-5'-Phosphate) enables the synthesis of GABA from Glutamate (10.14581/jer.15018). Thus, high doses of B6 during IVM neurotoxicity might be counterproductive. Glutamate levels are also recycled from and to glutamine and α-ketoglutarate (10.1016/j.aninu.2015.08.008). α-ketoglutarate indirectly depends on glutamine intake and the activation of the citric acid cycle.

I hope this gave you a better understanding of the neurotoxic mechanism of IVM and why its toxicity in the brain is dose-dependant, just as it is dose-dependant for sedatives and alcohol intake. IVM, however, normally doesn't cross the BBB as ethanol does. Vitamin status, the one of thiamine in particular, can make a difference but this has to be adjusted many days before taking such drugs, and overdoses of vitamins can be as harmful as deficiencies. I've listed two herbal remedies (i.e., Ginko, and Kudzu) that might not only help with an alcohol-induced hangover but also with mild side effects of IVM. Of course, this only applies if and once side effects happen that are consistent with GABAaR overactivation. It's unlikely to help with joint pain and immunologically-mediated side effects, which can also occur after taking IVM. I've also clarified why alcohol should not be taken with IVM, from a neurological perspective alone. I'm certain that there are metabolic reasons as well, especially due to ethanol's effect on thiamin-dependant enzymes such as transketolase (pmid:591201). Remember, this is no medical advice.

I would not take alcohol with CFS/ME. I would not take it with pain killers or Ivermectin. Even 12h after taking Ivermectin, your blood concentration will be quite high. Even if your plasma concentration is low, days later, there will be a high tissue concentration and alcohol can dissolve it from the tissue. But my concern was primarily focused on the interaction of ethanol and Ivermectin on the same brain receptors, possibly worsening potential neurotoxicity.

Taurine could be counterproductive. Antihistamines as well (indirectly due to histamine-GABA interaction). Just during the initial period when you/they don't have a feeling for it yet. As I mentioned, it's extremely unlikely that toxic effects happen.

The neurotoxicity risks are negligible. You have greater risks from drinking alcohol. Dysfunctional MDR-1 genes aren't common. People with mutations in this gene would have an issue with taking medications anyway eventually, because many medications rely on this gene. If you start with a lower dose and increase the dose day by day, you can monitor if any side effects occur. If you feel dizzy or sleepy like you're drunk. That will be your limit. The drug itself isn't neurotoxic. It's just the dosage in the brain that can make it neurotoxic. Just like drinking ethanol. But ethanol always crosses the blood-brain barrier easily, Ivermectin only in very low concentrations.

Thanks Tarmander. Appreciate this.

 

[Tarmander]

Thanks for asking.

My notes say I started it Dec 11th at 10 1/2 mg taken in the am empty stomach.
My last note is Jan 4 today. Dose is around 8mg now. After using 9 for a while, I switched to the paste, so two notches is about 8mg. Energy is much improved.

Talking with my husband today about the energy and he's noticed I have more also... Some joint pain is improved too.
I'm a little stunned over this progress.

I have a relative who is taking around 24mg a day.
Today she wrote: another day 100% here. no symptoms and surgical foot is perfect too! I wait for another week to know if it all has staying power though.

That is awesome!

Sadly, for me it seems like results fade after a couple days not taking it. Can you let me know if you or your relative notices staying power?

 

[ecstatichamster]

i've been taking 36mg per day for 4 days to avoid getting Covid from exposure to a family member. I haven't noticed anything good or bad.

 

[Hermes]

Thanks for asking.

My notes say I started it Dec 11th at 10 1/2 mg taken in the am empty stomach.
My last note is Jan 4 today. Dose is around 8mg now. After using 9 for a while, I switched to the paste, so two notches is about 8mg. Energy is much improved.

Talking with my husband today about the energy and he's noticed I have more also... Some joint pain is improved too.
I'm a little stunned over this progress.

I have a relative who is taking around 24mg a day.
Today she wrote: another day 100% here. no symptoms and surgical foot is perfect too! I wait for another week to know if it all has staying power though.

That's very promising, what you mention. More energy is always welcome. :) I wonder about the mechanism of action here at play. Others have mused over this and came to the conclusion it may be the general anti-inflammatory action of it.

I've ordered some ivermectin and will try it out soon. Looking forward to the effects that I might notice. Or not.

 

[Hermes]

i've been taking 36mg per day for 4 days to avoid getting Covid from exposure to a family member. I haven't noticed anything good or bad.

You're probably already in pretty good health.

 

[Birdie]

i've been taking 36mg per day for 4 days to avoid getting Covid from exposure to a family member. I haven't noticed anything good or bad.

My husband says you're his kinda guy.

 

[ecstatichamster]

My husband says you're his kinda guy.

lol

 

[Sumbody]

I took 12mg IVM for about 5 days. Same thing, I didn't notice anything good or bad. My IVM are dispersable tablets you dissolve in water before ingesting.

 

[Birdie]

Info:
Stromectol Ivexterm Ivermectin 6 mg 2 tabs.... $22.00

MyMexicanDrugstore

 

[milkboi]

My recent experiment with taking fenbendazole was a great success, my CFS went from moderate to very mild. I am feeling so much better now and I can tolerate some exercise again with PEM. It's either the fenbendazole or the Cistus Incanus tea or a combination of both (or some other unknown factor). But I'm pretty sure the fenbendazole had a positive impact because I remember getting crazy energy that I hadn't felt in years when taking it the first time.

I took it 3 days on/4 days off for 10 weeks because I literally felt like I had cancer so I figured it would be killing two birds with one stone (lots of people use it for cancer, see Home | Get Busy Living)

I think anyone with chronic health issues should try some ivermectin and/or -zoles so rule out parasitic infection.

Thanks, I will try this. What dosage did you use for the fenbendazole?

 

[Korven]

Thanks, I will try this. What dosage did you use for the fenbendazole?

250 mg - 4 days on/3 days off. 10 weeks is probably overkill but that's how long I took it for.

Confounding variables that may have also played a part in my rapid improvement during that time period: 4 pints of hot water protocol, Cistus Incanus tea (antiviral), using some probiotics for gut microbiome (never helped much before though), drinking 150 ml of pomegranate juice daily.

 

[milkboi]

250 mg - 4 days on/3 days off. 10 weeks is probably overkill but that's how long I took it for.

Confounding variables that may have also played a part in my rapid improvement during that time period: 4 pints of hot water protocol, Cistus Incanus tea (antiviral), using some probiotics for gut microbiome (never helped much before though), drinking 150 ml of pomegranate juice daily.

Cheers!