Is high-dose Thiamine therapy safe?

[Collden]

Browsing through literature on high-dose Thiamine therapy it seems to have great potential to treat all kinds of diseases like CFS, hypothyroidism, IBD, Parkinsons, etc.

Are there any risks to megadosing Thiamine though? Like that it will stop working or cause/exacerbate other nutrient deficiencies? Anyone had bad experience with this?

 

[sweetpeat]

This is what I wrote in another thread about my experience with high doses:

Based on my own n=1 experience, high dose thiamine can indeed lower iron. My serum iron went from 83 to 54 with no other changes in diet or supps. Ferritin stayed about the same and actually went up a little, from 43 to 50.

I had decided to try thiamine HCL to see if it would help with edema, intermittent fatigue/brain fog, and fasting glucose which has been creeping up lately. I worked my way up to about a gram/day in divided doses. I made sure to take it with magnesium and a B-complex. It did help a little with the edema, and brain fog improved quite a lot. Didn't help with fasting glucose or fatigue. I think fatigue was actually a little worse. Then I started noticing an unusual amount of hair shedding and remembered that being mentioned here, along with possibly affecting iron. Since I was getting some lab work anyway, I decided to check on it.

I haven't completely given up on thiamine, but I have substantially lowered the dose. I'm also experimenting with allithiamine to see if I can get the same benefits by taking less thiamine overall.

 

[mostlylurking]

Browsing through literature on high-dose Thiamine therapy it seems to have great potential to treat all kinds of diseases like CFS, hypothyroidism, IBD, Parkinsons, etc.

Are there any risks to megadosing Thiamine though? Like that it will stop working or cause/exacerbate other nutrient deficiencies? Anyone had bad experience with this?

I started high dose thiamine in November because I had been slammed by Bactrim antibiotic the previous July and I was in real trouble, with extremely high lactic acid, severe inflammation, and severe hypothyroid symptoms. I am hypothyroid and have taken medication for it for over 40 years. I got my thyroid panel done early because I thought my medication was bad (natural desiccated thyroid, 180mg/day). The blood test showed that my free T3 was extremely high and my doctor lowered my dose to 150mg/day.

I remembered that Haidut said that emergency rooms will give IV thiamine to people to lower their lactic acidosis. I had been supplementing thiamine hcl, 100mg 2Xday for about 6 years so I had some on hand. So I took about 300mg of it. I had not been able to get my temperature above 97.6 degrees for weeks. In about 30-45 minutes, all my pain disappeared and my temperature went up a full degree. I searched for Bactrim and thiamine and found this article: Bactrim: An Anti-Folate, Anti-Thiamine, Potassium Altering Drug - Hormones Matter.

I tried to take TTFD thiamine but it gave me a headache that lasted 36 hours so I stuck with thiamine hcl. I found Dr. Costantini's site: HDT Therapy He used thiamine hcl for his Parkinson's patients. There are youtube videos that show his patients' progress on high dose thiamine hcl; you can see the massive improvement in all of them. Dr. Costantini has had patients on his high dose protocol for as long as 6 (?) years with good results. Thiamine hcl is considered a safe supplement in general. High dose thiamine treatment does not have a long track record. Dr. Costantini started using it in 2011. I would rather take high dose thiamine that turn myself over to a neurologist and get pharmaceutical drugs.

I've only been on my maintenance dose of 2 grams thiamine hcl since 2/1/2021. I am continuing to improve. I had developed multiple autonomic nervous system issues; they are getting better.

Here is a good video about thiamine supplementation. In this video, Elliott Overton discusses high dose thiamine. He likes to recommend TTFD thiamine. However, there are more side effects with TTFD than with the thiamine hcl.

 

[Tim Lundeen]

Thiamine is a chelator for heavy metals and reduces toxicity of high Vitamin A. I've been using thiamine pyrophosphate, because I couldn't stand either HCl or Allithiamine. But in all cases, you have to dose to the half-life, support sulfation pathways, etc. along the lines of Andy Cutler's protocol without the Vit A. I had to stop the B1 for 4 days, then restart at much lower doses and take every 2.5 hours (blood half-life for B1 pyrophosphate), along with low-dose B2. Am now able to take it OK again, gradually increasing, but am probably going to stop at 2-4 mg/day total, which looks like an adequate level for me.

I think a lot of the therapeutic value for allithiamin or high-dose B1-HCl comes from heavy metal detox and effects on Vit A

 

[gaze]

I started high dose thiamine in November because I had been slammed by Bactrim antibiotic the previous July and I was in real trouble, with extremely high lactic acid, severe inflammation, and severe hypothyroid symptoms. I am hypothyroid and have taken medication for it for over 40 years. I got my thyroid panel done early because I thought my medication was bad (natural desiccated thyroid, 180mg/day). The blood test showed that my free T3 was extremely high and my doctor lowered my dose to 150mg/day.

I remembered that Haidut said that emergency rooms will give IV thiamine to people to lower their lactic acidosis. I had been supplementing thiamine hcl, 100mg 2Xday for about 6 years so I had some on hand. So I took about 300mg of it. I had not been able to get my temperature above 97.6 degrees for weeks. In about 30-45 minutes, all my pain disappeared and my temperature went up a full degree. I searched for Bactrim and thiamine and found this article: Bactrim: An Anti-Folate, Anti-Thiamine, Potassium Altering Drug - Hormones Matter.

I tried to take TTFD thiamine but it gave me a headache that lasted 36 hours so I stuck with thiamine hcl. I found Dr. Costantini's site: HDT Therapy He used thiamine hcl for his Parkinson's patients. There are youtube videos that show his patients' progress on high dose thiamine hcl; you can see the massive improvement in all of them. Dr. Costantini has had patients on his high dose protocol for as long as 6 (?) years with good results. Thiamine hcl is considered a safe supplement in general. High dose thiamine treatment does not have a long track record. Dr. Costantini started using it in 2011. I would rather take high dose thiamine that turn myself over to a neurologist and get pharmaceutical drugs.

I've only been on my maintenance dose of 2 grams thiamine hcl since 2/1/2021. I am continuing to improve. I had developed multiple autonomic nervous system issues; they are getting better.

Here is a good video about thiamine supplementation. In this video, Elliott Overton discusses high dose thiamine. He likes to recommend TTFD thiamine. However, there are more side effects with TTFD than with the thiamine hcl.

could you share more about your thyroid levels? so you had high T3 but low body temp ?

 

[Collden]

I just took 200mg of Thiamine HCl this morning. It had a definite effect, felt more energetic with lower inflammation, but also weird mild headache with lightheadedness and cranial/ocular pressure now after lunch. Is this a paradoxical reaction? How long should you expect such reactions to last before you feel better?

 

[mostlylurking]

could you share more about your thyroid levels? so you had high T3 but low body temp ?

I was diagnosed as hypothyroid in 1982. I've been on prescription natural desiccated thyroid for over 20 years and am very familiar with what hypothyroidism feels like. My optimized medication dose for this issue has been 180mg of Acella brand natural desiccated thyroid for 6 years; I have blood tests every 6 months to confirm my status. My hypothyroidism was stable until I took Bactrim antibiotic last summer for a bladder infection. Two other antibiotics were also tried; Augmentin finally cleared the infection early September.

My health deteriorated September-October. I had severe lactic acidosis, brain fog, inflammation, low temperature (could not get it above 98 degrees). I tested taking a higher dose of thiamine (300mg) to try to clear the lactic acid. Within 45 minutes my temperature went up to 98.6 and my inflammation disappeared.

I suspected that I was taking a bad batch of thyroid medication. I had my thyroid panel done 6 weeks ahead of schedule. The results showed that my T4 was normal (within range) and my free T3 was extremely high, so high that my endocrinologist lowered my medication down to 150mg/day. I believe that the Bactrim, by blocking my thiamine function, had stopped my oxidative metabolism and also blocked my ability to use T3 so it became very high.

Thiamine is a chelator for heavy metals and reduces toxicity of high Vitamin A

Do you have any links you could share about this?

I think a lot of the therapeutic value for allithiamin or high-dose B1-HCl comes from heavy metal detox and effects on Vit A

I pray that you are correct and that thiamine detoxes heavy metals. I have a lot of issues with heavy metal toxicity. I have been chelated (IV EDTA) many times. The most recent time was 2014 for lead; the chelation test results were the highest for lead the doctor had ever seen. I could not tolerate the chelation treatments and only had 10 out of the prescribed 25 IV treatments. The main symptom I had was unrelenting inflammation, like severe thiamine deficiency....

I wonder if thiamine deficiency makes you more vulnerable to heavy metal overload. I suspect I have had a thiamine deficiency for many years and the Bactrim experience exacerbated a long term problem.

I just took 200mg of Thiamine HCl this morning. It had a definite effect, felt more energetic with lower inflammation, but also weird mild headache with lightheadedness and cranial/ocular pressure now after lunch. Is this a paradoxical reaction? How long should you expect such reactions to last before you feel better?

I slowly increased my dosage of thiamine over about 3 months. I did have some symptoms like you describe but they would go away in a few days. Then the dose wouldn't provide the prior positive effects so I would increase it. I also supplemented with magnesium, potassium (via orange juice), and a good B-complex.

The negative feelings seem to me to be similar to the negative feelings when being chelated with EDTA. I wonder if these are the result of heavy metals being detoxed? One similarity of the two is that they both use up a lot of magnesium; I wonder if a new magnesium deficiency is causing symptoms?

 

[Collden]

I slowly increased my dosage of thiamine over about 3 months. I did have some symptoms like you describe but they would go away in a few days. Then the dose wouldn't provide the prior positive effects so I would increase it. I also supplemented with magnesium, potassium (via orange juice), and a good B-complex.

The negative feelings seem to me to be similar to the negative feelings when being chelated with EDTA. I wonder if these are the result of heavy metals being detoxed? One similarity of the two is that they both use up a lot of magnesium; I wonder if a new magnesium deficiency is causing symptoms?

I read on Antonio Costantini's website that they did not consider it necessary to supplement other nutrients along with the Thiamine, although it seems they often gave it together with Magnesium at a 1:5 ratio so perhaps it is good to keep your magnesium intake high at least.

FAQ

Frequently Asked Questions about High-Dose Thiamine (HDT) Therapy Responses by Dr. Antonio Costantini and Marco Colangeli, his Research Assistant since 2011 Use the Download FAQ button below to get…

highdosethiamine.org

 

[mostlylurking]

I read on Antonio Costantini's website that they did not consider it necessary to supplement other nutrients along with the Thiamine, although it seems they often gave it together with Magnesium at a 1:5 ratio so perhaps it is good to keep your magnesium intake high at least.

FAQ

Frequently Asked Questions about High-Dose Thiamine (HDT) Therapy Responses by Dr. Antonio Costantini and Marco Colangeli, his Research Assistant since 2011 Use the Download FAQ button below to get…

highdosethiamine.org

It is my understanding that Dr. Costantini only gave thiamine hcl for the first few months, to witness the patient's response to high dose thiamine to confirm his diagnosis. Then he added magnesium, but it seems to be a really low dose, 75mg once or maybe twice a week. I've found some discrepancies on his site; I suspect that these are the result of putting up information over a period of several years. Some of the protocol changed a bit over time as more patients were successfully treated.

I've settled on taking 1200mg magnesium/day because if I don't take this much I get some strong locking spasms in my feet when I go to bed at night. I've recently discovered that I am able to minimize the pain at 2:00am by taking 1 gram of aspirin plus about 200mg of niacinamide before bed. I've interpreted this pain to be the result of high cortisol at night; it feels like my upper back muscles are dissolving. I'm so glad I doubled my nighttime niacinamide; it really seems to help a lot.

 

[Missenger]

It is my understanding that Dr. Costantini only gave thiamine hcl for the first few months, to witness the patient's response to high dose thiamine to confirm his diagnosis. Then he added magnesium, but it seems to be a really low dose, 75mg once or maybe twice a week. I've found some discrepancies on his site; I suspect that these are the result of putting up information over a period of several years. Some of the protocol changed a bit over time as more patients were successfully treated.

I've settled on taking 1200mg magnesium/day because if I don't take this much I get some strong locking spasms in my feet when I go to bed at night. I've recently discovered that I am able to minimize the pain at 2:00am by taking 1 gram of aspirin plus about 200mg of niacinamide before bed. I've interpreted this pain to be the result of high cortisol at night; it feels like my upper back muscles are dissolving. I'm so glad I doubled my nighttime niacinamide; it really seems to help a lot.

Are you getting enough calcium? You can get cramps from a lack of it as well.

 

[mostlylurking]

Are you getting enough calcium? You can get cramps from a lack of it as well.

I'm drinking at least 2 quarts of 1% milk daily.

 

[Collden]

Been supplementing 200mg every morning for 3 days now and am cautiously optimistic. More energy, reduced sweating, reduced motion sickness and fewer bad effects, did however experience some GI upset and weird muscle tension at night one day. Also crash faster if I don't eat enough carbs but this should be expected due to lowering of blood lipids and glucose.

 

[Collden]

Sixth day at 200mg every morning, fewer obvious negative effects although I'm more alert at night and take longer to sleep. Overall better energy and I don't seem to get tired after heavy carb feedings anymore.

 

[Motif]

Is the now thiamine ok?

Now Foods, B-1 (Thiamin), 100mg, 100 Vegane Tabletten - Blitzversand | eBay

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www.ebay.de

What about theanine mononitrat? That’s in my b complex.

 

[Motif]

Started with 100 mg of the now thiamine.

but why is mononitrat not working ?

 

[Dr. B]

I started high dose thiamine in November because I had been slammed by Bactrim antibiotic the previous July and I was in real trouble, with extremely high lactic acid, severe inflammation, and severe hypothyroid symptoms. I am hypothyroid and have taken medication for it for over 40 years. I got my thyroid panel done early because I thought my medication was bad (natural desiccated thyroid, 180mg/day). The blood test showed that my free T3 was extremely high and my doctor lowered my dose to 150mg/day.

I remembered that Haidut said that emergency rooms will give IV thiamine to people to lower their lactic acidosis. I had been supplementing thiamine hcl, 100mg 2Xday for about 6 years so I had some on hand. So I took about 300mg of it. I had not been able to get my temperature above 97.6 degrees for weeks. In about 30-45 minutes, all my pain disappeared and my temperature went up a full degree. I searched for Bactrim and thiamine and found this article: Bactrim: An Anti-Folate, Anti-Thiamine, Potassium Altering Drug - Hormones Matter.

I tried to take TTFD thiamine but it gave me a headache that lasted 36 hours so I stuck with thiamine hcl. I found Dr. Costantini's site: HDT Therapy He used thiamine hcl for his Parkinson's patients. There are youtube videos that show his patients' progress on high dose thiamine hcl; you can see the massive improvement in all of them. Dr. Costantini has had patients on his high dose protocol for as long as 6 (?) years with good results. Thiamine hcl is considered a safe supplement in general. High dose thiamine treatment does not have a long track record. Dr. Costantini started using it in 2011. I would rather take high dose thiamine that turn myself over to a neurologist and get pharmaceutical drugs.

I've only been on my maintenance dose of 2 grams thiamine hcl since 2/1/2021. I am continuing to improve. I had developed multiple autonomic nervous system issues; they are getting better.

Here is a good video about thiamine supplementation. In this video, Elliott Overton discusses high dose thiamine. He likes to recommend TTFD thiamine. However, there are more side effects with TTFD than with the thiamine hcl.

mate can you explain what TTFD thiamine is

 

[Dr. B]

Been supplementing 200mg every morning for 3 days now and am cautiously optimistic. More energy, reduced sweating, reduced motion sickness and fewer bad effects, did however experience some GI upset and weird muscle tension at night one day. Also crash faster if I don't eat enough carbs but this should be expected due to lowering of blood lipids and glucose.

it lowers both blood lipids and glucose? so it boosts metabolism significantly? have you gotten a lot leaner?

 

[mostlylurking]

mate can you explain what TTFD thiamine is

It is a synthetic thiamine that was developed in Japan.

The Effects of Thiamine Tetrahydrofurfuryl Disulfide on Physiological Adaption and Exercise Performance Improvement - PubMed

Thiamine, named as vitamin B1, is an important cofactor for the critical enzymes regarding to glucose metabolism, like transketolase, pyruvate dehydrogenase, and alpha-ketoglutarate dehydrogenase. The thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide (TTFD) is a derivative of thiamine with higher...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Dr. B]

It is a synthetic thiamine that was developed in Japan.

The Effects of Thiamine Tetrahydrofurfuryl Disulfide on Physiological Adaption and Exercise Performance Improvement - PubMed

Thiamine, named as vitamin B1, is an important cofactor for the critical enzymes regarding to glucose metabolism, like transketolase, pyruvate dehydrogenase, and alpha-ketoglutarate dehydrogenase. The thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide (TTFD) is a derivative of thiamine with higher...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

do you like benfotiamine, allithiamine, thiamine pyrophosphate
i think someone on here said benfotiamine is dangerous causes depletion or something

 

[mostlylurking]

do you like benfotiamine, allithiamine, thiamine pyrophosphate
i think someone on here said benfotiamine is dangerous causes depletion or something

I only use thiamine hcl. I tried the TTFD but it gave me a headache that lasted 36 hours. I have to take more of the thiamine hcl than if I was using the TTFD, but I tolerate it just fine with no side effects. I chose to follow Dr. Costantini's recommendations and he only used thiamine hcl to treat his Parkinson's Disease patients. He had patients on long term high dose thiamine hcl (longer than 5 years) with no negative side effects. My endocrinologist has told me that thiamine hcl is considered a safe supplement.