Is DHT The Most Important Hormone For Males?

[Drareg]

Thanks for the tip. I tried aspirin awhile back, but never got up to the gram + doses like I know some have done on here. IIRC I don't think I was doing the DHEA while doing aspirin. Let me ask a question if you or anyone else knows. In another thread, someone mentioned that they dump some aspirin in an Epsom salt bath along with some urea. I don't have any urea but recently I've taken a couple of Epsom salt baths and I dumped some aspirin in too. I feel and look extra bloated. I've taken Epsom salt baths before and don't get the bloat. I don't believe the extra bloat is food related. Can higher dose aspirin, assuming enough of it absorbed, cause extra fluid retention?

You don't need to megadose the aspirin for the effect with dhea, 500mg worked for me.

In relation to the fluid retention I don't know exactly why it happens but it does for some, caffeine does the same for some as creatine and niacinamide.
It could be adrenaline being effected but aspirin supposedly shouldn't do this.
Peat in a recent email mentioned caffeine effecting water in the body via adrenaline, it was a question on fluid retention.
Niacinamide and creatine are involved with adrenalin,think niacinamide may be a cofactor at times.
It may also be histamine related,those who are more sensitive to histamine may have the effect come on from slight elevation of pufa.

Theanine is good for histamine and lowering cortisol, mitolipin also stops excessive adrenalin albeit slightly and contains vitamin E so could be a good option to try.

 

[ecstatichamster]

For me progesterone and pregnenolone kill my drive and erections. Even in small quantities.

 

[Rand56]

You don't need to megadose the aspirin for the effect with dhea, 500mg worked for me.

In relation to the fluid retention I don't know exactly why it happens but it does for some, caffeine does the same for some as creatine and niacinamide.
It could be adrenaline being effected but aspirin supposedly shouldn't do this.
Peat in a recent email mentioned caffeine effecting water in the body via adrenaline, it was a question on fluid retention.
Niacinamide and creatine are involved with adrenalin,think niacinamide may be a cofactor at times.
It may also be histamine related,those who are more sensitive to histamine may have the effect come on from slight elevation of pufa.

Theanine is good for histamine and lowering cortisol, mitolipin also stops excessive adrenalin albeit slightly and contains vitamin E so could be a good option to try.

Thanks Drareg. I'll get back to trying smaller doses of aspirin after this bloat subsides. I just couldn't figure out that it could be from something else other than the aspirin. I've taken some extra Vit E and a bit more zinc, and have started wizzing more frequently. Bloat should be down soon I hope.

 

[Drareg]

Thanks Drareg. I'll get back to trying smaller doses of aspirin after this bloat subsides. I just couldn't figure out that it could be from something else other than the aspirin. I've taken some extra Vit E and a bit more zinc, and have started wizzing more frequently. Bloat should be down soon I hope.

I think mitolipin is good for endotoxins also, if your bloat issues were related to it.
Careful with zinc high doses increase prolactin. Plenty of discussion on here about it.

 

[Rand56]

I think mitolipin is good for endotoxins also, if your bloat issues were related to it.
Careful with zinc high doses increase prolactin. Plenty of discussion on here about it.

Yeah I've had a love/hate relationship with zinc for quite sometime, and have learned I need to keep the dose low.

 

[Nick Ireland]

Just a thought.... Some folks get bloat using progesterone which a couple of posters have suggested is due to high iron stores. In my experience progesterone, or aspirin, may raise metabolism in combination with other substances such that there is a sudden release of stored crap like estrogen and unsats into the system. Avoiding that rebound may be achieved with niacinamide and Vitamin E which Ray advises block their effects. He is rightly all for a slow clear out of stored crap, but sometimes I have found that it is hard to avoid spike in release and take supps accordingly.

Thanks for the tip. I tried aspirin awhile back, but never got up to the gram + doses like I know some have done on here. IIRC I don't think I was doing the DHEA while doing aspirin. Let me ask a question if you or anyone else knows. In another thread, someone mentioned that they dump some aspirin in an Epsom salt bath along with some urea. I don't have any urea but recently I've taken a couple of Epsom salt baths and I dumped some aspirin in too. I feel and look extra bloated. I've taken Epsom salt baths before and don't get the bloat. I don't believe the extra bloat is food related. Can higher dose aspirin, assuming enough of it absorbed, cause extra fluid retention?

 

[Nick Ireland]

Cailleux-Bounacer A, Rohmer V, Lahlou N, Lefebvre H, Roger M, Kuhn JM. Impact level of dihydrotestosterone on the hypothalamic-pituitary-leydig cell axis in men. International Journal of Andrology 2009;32(1):57-65. Impact level of dihydrotestosterone on the hypothalamic-pituitary-leydig cell axis in men - Cailleux-Bounacer - 2007 - International Journal of Andrology - Wiley Online Library

Summary Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) the physiologically most potent androgen cannot be aromatised into oestrogen. DHT is used as a treatment for idiopathic gynaecomastia. In order to investigate the different sites of action of DHT on the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis, two groups of adult men were studied.

Group I included 10 gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH)-deficient men who were evaluated before and during a pulsatile infusion of GnRH alone for 2 weeks and then in association with DHT given transdermally at doses used in the treatment of gynaecomastia for further two weeks. Luteinizing hormone (LH) pulsatility was assessed at the end of each step of the study. Plasma LH levels were measured every 15 min. Plasma testosterone (T), DHT, oestradiol (E2), free alpha-subunit (FAS) of glycoproteic hormones and LH bioactivity were measured on pooled plasma samples. Group II included 12 healthy men in whom plasma T, DHT and E2 were measured before and then 24, 48 and 72 h after the injection of 5000 IU hcg alone or in combination with either DHT or the pure anti-androgen nilutamide. Two weeks separated each of the 3 hCG testing.

In group I, except for bioactive/immunoreactive (B/I) LH ratio which was unchanged, GnRH treatment induced significant rises (p < 0.01) in all plasma hormone levels, LH pulse amplitude and frequency. During treatment with GnRH+DHT, plasma DHT levels increased up to 16.8 ± 2.5 nm, while plasma hormone levels, B/I LH ratio, LH pulse amplitude and frequency were similar to those obtained with GnRH alone. In group II, the peak of hCG-induced T rise was not modified by either DHT or nilutamide. In contrast, DHT reduced by 50% (p < 0.01) the E2 peak in response to hCG.

These data show that DHT exerts no direct action on the pituitary to retroregulate LH secretion and to modify either B/I LH ratio or FAS secretion. Its reducing effect on LH secretion is likely mediated at the hypothalamic level. DHT does not appear to have a physiological influence on Leydig cells steroidogenesis. Administered at therapeutic doses, DHT directly reduces testicular aromatase activity that combined with its antigonadotropic effect leads to the gain in the symptomatic treatment of gynaecomastia.

 

[Rand56]

Just a thought.... Some folks get bloat using progesterone which a couple of posters have suggested is due to high iron stores. In my experience progesterone, or aspirin, may raise metabolism in combination with other substances such that there is a sudden release of stored crap like estrogen and unsats into the system. Avoiding that rebound may be achieved with niacinamide and Vitamin E which Ray advises block their effects. He is rightly all for a slow clear out of stored crap, but sometimes I have found that it is hard to avoid spike in release and take supps accordingly.

Your post makes a lot of sense. I was thinking the extra bloat could be a release of estrogen stores, but that's also interesting about the high iron stores and unsaturated fats. I've gone stretches before doing higher dose prenenolone..100mg's and for a shorter amount of time..200 mg's per day, and I gained some extra fat weight and felt a bit more bloated, so I ditched doing that and only do the smaller amount which is in Pansterone. I suppose the aspirin I dumped in the tub could have been more of a shock n awe treatment to my body, and I really didn't know I was putting enough in for it to have such an impact, but apparently it did.

 

[cats]

Its reducing effect on LH secretion is likely mediated at the hypothalamic level. DHT does not appear to have a physiological influence on Leydig cells steroidogenesis. ...its antigonadotropic effect leads to the gain in the symptomatic treatment of gynaecomastia.

Does this not suggest that DHT supplementation has the potential to reduce T production?

 

[blackkzeus]

Area-1255: EXCLUSIVE : The What & The How of DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) in the Brain

all about dht on nervous system

 

[bboone]

I have been researching like crazy about this hormone in the last year. It is the hormone to which testosterone get converted to when is not aromatized. It is basically the hormone that make us men, give us all our secondary masculine characteristics, aggression, beard, low voice... The levels of DHT of the mother determine if the baby is going to be male or female. Everything about it seems so right that is almost a miracle hormone. From reducing estrogen (it cures gyno) to increasing bone density, the list of benefits are incredible. So, I have been researching about this hormone and seems that almost everything pushed today as healthy decreased it: all vitamins but D and K2, PUFAS, raw food, fasting, COCONUT OIL. I have concluded that the perfect diet to increase this hormone is eating basically fried food in butter, sugar, high calorie and carbs consumption, tobacco and coffee. It's like the benefits of the Peat approach are caused by the increase of this hormone. I'm going to start talking exogenous DHT and will report back.

how come even VERY low doses of supplementary K2 makes me feel like ***t? 50 mcg will ruin my day and make me feel asexual. i don't have this problem with anything else, except perhaps rhodiola

 

[TheBeard]

This is my DHT experience...

Real DHT (andractim) will not make your body hair grow or beard lengthen faster if E2 is under control. I have used T and I did get increased body hair because of the aromatisation. Yet with the E2 suitably lowered by various anti aromatase agents - the hair growth, and acne, stopped. It is E2 that masculinises males.
DHT will make you calmer, confident, and happier. The body seems to notice when levels are too high with a compensatory E2 response. How this happens I am not sure, perhaps a pre testicular feedback loop. DHT in the right dose will actually prime your testis to make T and technically lower aromatase.
I have also found the use of clonidine to be a wonderful compliment to androgen therapy. Often, though not much discussed, the adrenals will be stimulated by androgens in men with existing low endogenous androgen levels. As their androgens lowered over the years, cortisol and adrenalin compensated and eventfully set an uprated level which can be very hard to break. High androgen with high cortisol is a sure recipe for high aromatase expression and it might not be able to break that hard set adrenal sensitivity and over activity. Clonidine, in as little as a week or two can bring it down to normal, healthy levels and let the androgen do it's job properly.
I've found small amounts of Andractim to be much more effective than large doses, say the equivalent of 25mg on the abdomen skin twice a day. DHT is great for skin - it thickens and becomes more elastic, and very quickly too. Libido on DHT is high, yet controlled, unlike the reckless surges caused by estrogen which acts like a stim in the brain. Having a drink (but not a skin full) converts DHT to allopregnenolone in the brain, improving mood and sense of well being. After application I see serum spikes in application at 6 hours, 12 hours and a washout at 2.5 days - these are ironed out by regular use, but I suspect that part of this fluctuation is stimulation of your own DHT.
Word of advice - get your thyroid sorted before considering androgens or you will be up and down like Bill Clinton's shorts. Aim for the 37C and 80 plus pulse. You will find, along the way, NDT thyroid is constantly improving your reception to androgens.

I can totally relate to this experiment.

I have gone through two tubes of Andractim last year as an experiment. That was the only thing I was taking.

I started low, my dosage has varied up to ungodly amounts (a third of the tube in one day through 10 different applications).

All it did was to dry out my joints. No effect at all on hair growth or libido.

I am sure that DHT needs enough E2 to work or to masculinize, which can only be achieved through Testosterone supplementation in order to aromatize. DHT supplementation on its own kills E2

 

[golder]

I can totally relate to this experiment.

I have gone through two tubes of Andractim last year as an experiment. That was the only thing I was taking.

I started low, my dosage has varied up to ungodly amounts (a third of the tube in one day through 10 different applications).

All it did was to dry out my joints. No effect at all on hair growth or libido.

I am sure that DHT needs enough E2 to work or to masculinize, which can only be achieved through Testosterone supplementation in order to aromatize. DHT supplementation on its own kills E2

Very interesting report. Thanks for your detailed and honest feedback. Having used DHT over quite a substantial period, is it something you recommend and will use again?

Thanks!

 

[golder]

I can totally relate to this experiment.

I have gone through two tubes of Andractim last year as an experiment. That was the only thing I was taking.

I started low, my dosage has varied up to ungodly amounts (a third of the tube in one day through 10 different applications).

All it did was to dry out my joints. No effect at all on hair growth or libido.

I am sure that DHT needs enough E2 to work or to masculinize, which can only be achieved through Testosterone supplementation in order to aromatize. DHT supplementation on its own kills E2

What ratio of THT did you find keeps your estrogen at a reasonable level and doesn't tank it too much?

 

[TheBeard]

What ratio of THT did you find keeps your estrogen at a reasonable level and doesn't tank it too much?

Whatever ratio your body decides fit when you provide him T transcrotally

 

[jnklheimer]

This is my DHT experience...

Real DHT (andractim) will not make your body hair grow or beard lengthen faster if E2 is under control. I have used T and I did get increased body hair because of the aromatisation. Yet with the E2 suitably lowered by various anti aromatase agents - the hair growth, and acne, stopped. It is E2 that masculinises males.
DHT will make you calmer, confident, and happier. The body seems to notice when levels are too high with a compensatory E2 response. How this happens I am not sure, perhaps a pre testicular feedback loop. DHT in the right dose will actually prime your testis to make T and technically lower aromatase.
I have also found the use of clonidine to be a wonderful compliment to androgen therapy. Often, though not much discussed, the adrenals will be stimulated by androgens in men with existing low endogenous androgen levels. As their androgens lowered over the years, cortisol and adrenalin compensated and eventfully set an uprated level which can be very hard to break. High androgen with high cortisol is a sure recipe for high aromatase expression and it might not be able to break that hard set adrenal sensitivity and over activity. Clonidine, in as little as a week or two can bring it down to normal, healthy levels and let the androgen do it's job properly.
I've found small amounts of Andractim to be much more effective than large doses, say the equivalent of 25mg on the abdomen skin twice a day. DHT is great for skin - it thickens and becomes more elastic, and very quickly too. Libido on DHT is high, yet controlled, unlike the reckless surges caused by estrogen which acts like a stim in the brain. Having a drink (but not a skin full) converts DHT to allopregnenolone in the brain, improving mood and sense of well being. After application I see serum spikes in application at 6 hours, 12 hours and a washout at 2.5 days - these are ironed out by regular use, but I suspect that part of this fluctuation is stimulation of your own DHT.
Word of advice - get your thyroid sorted before considering androgens or you will be up and down like Bill Clinton's shorts. Aim for the 37C and 80 plus pulse. You will find, along the way, NDT thyroid is constantly improving your reception to androgens.

awesome post

 

[golder]

awesome post

Very awesome post. Just out of curiosity which NDT and dosage did you use to get to your 37C and 80bpm? I think you’re 100% right when it comes to getting the best response from low dose T/DHT once the thyroid is in place. This is mandatory not optional.

 

[jnklheimer]

Very awesome post. Just out of curiosity which NDT and dosage did you use to get to your 37C and 80bpm? I think you’re 100% right when it comes to getting the best response from low dose T/DHT once the thyroid is in place. This is mandatory not optional.

I did not say that, never used thyroid. Was another user. FWIW I hang around 80-90bpm with caffeine and good food and good light. Never checked temp regularly but I’m toasty as long as I’ve eaten.

 

[Explorer]

DHT on it's own did not strike me very powerful in any way, especially when you're looking for effects on beard, muscle or voice, you are in for a big disappointment. I encourage everyone to experiment with it directly.

Which factors do you think increase beard growth, muscle growth and voice deepness more?