Is Citric Acid A Bad Bad Boy?

Mossy

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I'm now conflicted about magnesium citrate. On one hand, Ray Peat says the citrate will cause calcium excretion through urine. @Mito has reminded me of this. But lately, @Amazoniac has shown some references that show calcium excretion to be a good thing, being that citrate prevents calcium oxalate stones from forming (in the urine bladder).

I'm also having doubts about whether citric acid intake (thru supps as well as citrus fruits) will lead to acidic blood/ecf. Amazoniac has also provided references that state that citric acid metabolizes to bicarbonate in the liver, and that the hydrogen positive ion simply neutralizes the bicarbonate, leaving a neutral effect on body fluids. And citrate, on the other hand, makes the body more alkaline.

I suppose that if there's concern about lead contamination in industrial citric acid, one could just resort to eating or drinking the juice of citrus fruits. The more sour a fruit is, the more it contains citric acid. But since citrates have an alkaline effect while citric acid has a neutral effect, it would help to add bicarbonate to the juice to convert the citric acid to a citrate. That can be done with baking soda. But I think it's possible also to do that with magnesium bicarbonate or potassium bicarbonate (or for that matter magnesium carbonate or potassium carbonate).
So, by simply adding baking soda to a soft drink with citric acid, am I making it a better substance by making it a citrate? Or, would it only be better if you’re needing to be more alkaline and in some cases you may need or prefer the neutral effect of citric acid?
 

yerrag

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So, by simply adding baking soda to a soft drink with citric acid, am I making it a better substance by making it a citrate? Or, would it only be better if you’re needing to be more alkaline and in some cases you may need or prefer the neutral effect of citric acid?
I don't think it would work done that way. The citric acid in the soft drink is so diluted that for it to react with baking soda fully may involve much time and effort. But that's just a guess. You may want to try it. If it reacts and there's an excess baking soda left and it doesn't settle but go into solution, the worst thing to happen would be to alter the taste.
 

Mossy

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I don't think it would work done that way. The citric acid in the soft drink is so diluted that for it to react with baking soda fully may involve much time and effort. But that's just a guess. You may want to try it. If it reacts and there's an excess baking soda left and it doesn't settle but go into solution, the worst thing to happen would be to alter the taste.
Ok. Thanks for the added detail.
 
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But since citrates have an alkaline effect while citric acid has a neutral effect, it would help to add bicarbonate to the juice to convert the citric acid to a citrate.

I have not heard of this before and have been under the impression that citric acid and citrate are the same thing, that citrate is a bicarbonate precursor in the body, and that drinks such as 7-up and Sprite provide akali to the body. Would you please provide some reference?
 

yerrag

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Seeing phosphoric acid reminds me: most sodas use citric or phosphoric acid—is one better than the other?
In terms of acid load on the body, I would think citric acid is better. As the article on the link from the post by Amazoniac suggests, citric acid metabolizes to bicarbonate, and is neutralized by the hydrogen ion of citric acid, to have a neutral effect. This cannot be said of phosphoric acid, it not being an organic acid.
 

Mossy

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In terms of acid load on the body, I would think citric acid is better. As the article on the link from the post by Amazoniac suggests, citric acid metabolizes to bicarbonate, and is neutralized by the hydrogen ion of citric acid, to have a neutral effect. This cannot be said of phosphoric acid, it not being an organic acid.
Great. I apprecaite your response.
 

Vileplume

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I’ve been having some weird digestive symptoms for a few weeks (bloating and this feeling of stagnation in my gut, although I still poop. It just feels like things get lodged in my lower gut). I tried eliminating many things before just now considering that maybe it’s the canned pineapple, which contains added citric acid. It seemed to digest well immediately after consumption so I didn’t consider it as a culprit, but I’ll now stop consuming it and see.

Anybody else have issues with industrial citric acid?
 

Zpol

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Yes, it's a bad boy because it inhibits ceruloplasmin functionality.
 

yerrag

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I’ve been having some weird digestive symptoms for a few weeks (bloating and this feeling of stagnation in my gut, although I still poop. It just feels like things get lodged in my lower gut). I tried eliminating many things before just now considering that maybe it’s the canned pineapple, which contains added citric acid. It seemed to digest well immediately after consumption so I didn’t consider it as a culprit, but I’ll now stop consuming it and see.

Anybody else have issues with industrial citric acid?
While fruits such as pineapple contain citric acid, the citric acid in fruits isn't a lot in the usual amount of fruits we consume.

Recently I took 1500mg potassium in the form of potassium citrate. For 2 weeks. While I didn't observe anything definitely, I suspect that like many electrolyte supplementation in large quantities that comes with organic anions or even bicarbonate, my frequency of urination increases.

I now rather prefer getting minerals through food rather than through large mineral supplementation.

If I were to take 1500mg of potassium through fruits, 3 bananas would do it and it's not hard to do. But if I were to take citrates in the form of K Citrate, it would mean taking 9000mg of citrates, which would be an awful lot of fruits to take verging on impossibility. This means that it is just unnatural to take that much, and I'm asking for trouble.

We take these minerals to add to our health, so I think we should refrain from taking excessive quantities, such as of citrate, as it could end up ruining our health instead of improving it.

Citrates in the form of fruits are healthful, as in that form taken in the quantities usually taken, would do no harm.

A piece of lemon would give enough potassium citrate to improve the zeta potential of our blood, to keep it fluid and help counter the sludging effect of aluminum that could be present from vaccination. But it would not have enough citrates to make it harmful to us.
 

Vileplume

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While fruits such as pineapple contain citric acid, the citric acid in fruits isn't a lot in the usual amount of fruits we consume.

Recently I took 1500mg potassium in the form of potassium citrate. For 2 weeks. While I didn't observe anything definitely, I suspect that like many electrolyte supplementation in large quantities that comes with organic anions or even bicarbonate, my frequency of urination increases.

I now rather prefer getting minerals through food rather than through large mineral supplementation.

If I were to take 1500mg of potassium through fruits, 3 bananas would do it and it's not hard to do. But if I were to take citrates in the form of K Citrate, it would mean taking 9000mg of citrates, which would be an awful lot of fruits to take verging on impossibility. This means that it is just unnatural to take that much, and I'm asking for trouble.

We take these minerals to add to our health, so I think we should refrain from taking excessive quantities, such as of citrate, as it could end up ruining our health instead of improving it.

Citrates in the form of fruits are healthful, as in that form taken in the quantities usually taken, would do no harm.

A piece of lemon would give enough potassium citrate to improve the zeta potential of our blood, to keep it fluid and help counter the sludging effect of aluminum that could be present from vaccination. But it would not have enough citrates to make it harmful to us.

Interesting. Your post makes me think about magnesium, which I supplement from non-food forms. Not citrate, but glycinate. I fear that without this supplementation, my diet will become too low in magnesium, but maybe the dangers of excess magnesium (and glycine) are greater. Perhaps this is the reason my stomach has been misbehaving.

I also wonder how many citrates are in the commonly added “citric acid” in canned and frozen foods, for example.
 

yerrag

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Interesting. Your post makes me think about magnesium, which I supplement from non-food forms. Not citrate, but glycinate. I fear that without this supplementation, my diet will become too low in magnesium, but maybe the dangers of excess magnesium (and glycine) are greater. Perhaps this is the reason my stomach has been misbehaving.

I also wonder how many citrates are in the commonly added “citric acid” in canned and frozen foods, for example.
Unless you're not taking too much magnesium, I don't think it's going to be harmful. 400mg is the maintenance daily dosage.

But what anion it is paired with makes more of a difference.

I haven't used glycinate only because it's just cheaper to take gelatin than to get glycine in the form of glycinate. Other than the cost, the glycinate form seems okay. But you never know. If you suspect that, it won't hurt to switch to another form and observe.

Many forum members have tried magnesium oxide, which costs less and absorbs well, contrary to popular opinion. And youre taking in more magnesium percentage wise (by weight) as oxide isn't so heavy.
 
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