is avoiding PUFAs the cornerstone of the diet

[uuy8778yyi]

I was trying to explain the diet to a friend

is this the best way ? similar to paleo but allows sugar, because sugar isn't the problem,

actually PUFA from olives avocado and nuts/seeds are the problem

 

[Waremu]

Well, not all paleo is low carb, contrary to popular belief. Some people are high carb paleo, including honey and fruit in their diet, which are both paleo (there are actually some very exotic high sugar fruit that date back to paleo times).

I would say that Ray Peat does not advocate a vey specific diet in terms of exact ratios and what not for everyone. Instead, he points out which foods are best and which are worse and people usually go from there and apply it to their own lives.

But no, I would not say it is similar to Paleo.

Paleo does not advocate dairy, which means that diet is lacking in sufficient calcium. It also does not advocate "safe starches" such as ricw and potatoes, like a Peatarian diet does (though strict Peatarians avoid almost all starch).

Paleo advocates a high fat, high protein diet, and Dr. Pray does not. While one can have moderate fat on a Peatarian diet, Peat believes carbs are far superior to fat and thy carbs should be emphasized. He also believes in high protein, but that is the right kind of protein, unlike Paleo.

Paleo is high in inflammatory proteins (too much muscle meats, etc.), whereas a Peatarian diet would strictky limit those proteins and emphasize more "anti-inflammatory" proteins, such as milk and gelatin. And while Peat does advocate a high protein diet, his definition of "high protein" is 80 grams to 100 grams, to 1 gram per pound of body weight max. But, in my experience, it seems like most Peatarians probably aim for 80-150 grams. Nevertheless, Ray Peats definition of "high protein" is still much lower than the typical Paleo diet, which easily can hit 200-300 grams or more in a day. I think that much is too inflammatory.

So basically, a Peatarian diet would be against PUFA, too much inflammatory protein like macular meats (tryptophan, etc.), lower iron, well cooked plant foods to minimize endotoxin, no gluten, plenty of fruit as a main carb source, etc. a strict Peat diet would probably be low-moderate low fat too (mostly saturated fat being the best kind to consume).

 

[uuy8778yyi]

okay thanks

but no avocados to be sure ?

 

[BingDing]

I think RPs best quote is that he advocates food that support metabolism, or the like.

I explain it as trying to maintain high thyroid and low estrogen, explaining how the endocrine glands change with aging.

Thyroid is the main regulator of metabolism or energy production in the cells and is the most important hormone in the body. Its function is needed throughout life

Estrogen prepares the uterus to accept a fertilized egg and allow an 8 pound parasite to persist for 9 months. Its function is not needed throughout life.

Vastly different functions, obviously. The details can be excruciatingly hard to sort out, but PUFAs are a big part of it compared to a standard diet.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Yes

 

[tara]

Yes, a cornerstone. Yes avoid avocados and most seeds. But a little olive oil is probably OK, and better than many oils.
Along with:

* Moderate to high carbohydrates (eg 1/3 - 2/3 of calories from carbs), preferably mostly sugars from fruit/juice and milk, some honey and sucrose OK. Aim for steady blood sugar - if glycogen storage is not great, that sometimes means small frequent feeds, at least to begin with.

* Adequate well balanced protein, preferably lots from milk if tolerated, gelatine. 80-100g for low thyroid state, up to approx. double that otherwise

* Meeting vitamin and mineral needs (esp. calcium, which can often be low in 'Paleo' diets), milk, liver, oysters, fruit, possibly green vege broths

* Keeping the intestines happy by avoiding foods that irritate or inflame the intestines (there are some common culprits, but some are individual sensitivities)

* Lowering endotoxin burden by reducing food that supports lots of bacteria, encouraging adequate transit

* Minimising other poisons etc in addition to PUFAs, eg titanium or dioxide (in some tablets) and other small particles, heavy metals including avoiding excess iron, goitrogens, phytoestrogens.

Overall, eat in a way that supports a high metabolism for you, of foods you like. Because people's systems are somewhat compromised in different ways, and have different tastes etc, it doesn't always look exactly the same for every one.

So I think I've got a heptagon. Unless we add in non-diet factors like sunlight, sleep, C02, lowering other unnecessary stresses, engaging in meaningful activity, etc, in which case I'm up to at least a dodecagon. :)

 

[Such_Saturation]

I think it's the thing where nobody else dares to say as much, nobody else says 0.00000000g PUFA is best.

 

[uuy8778yyi]

right

so avocados are not healthy ?

they are basically just like nuts/seeds ?

i never liked them that much anyway but I thought they were healthy

 

[uuy8778yyi]

I think it's the thing where nobody else dares to say as much, nobody else says 0.00000000g PUFA is best.

why not ?

if you could do that and a person wanted to, would that be a problem ?

however I don't believe in extreme dieting, but I think avoiding PUFA is very easy

 

[Such_Saturation]

I think it's the thing where nobody else dares to say as much, nobody else says 0.00000000g PUFA is best.

why not ?

if you could do that and a person wanted to, would that be a problem ?

however I don't believe in extreme dieting, but I think avoiding PUFA is very easy

Why does nobody else say that? I don't know I guess it is too unpopular.

 

[jyb]

I think it's the thing where nobody else dares to say as much, nobody else says 0.00000000g PUFA is best.

why not ?

if you could do that and a person wanted to, would that be a problem ?

however I don't believe in extreme dieting, but I think avoiding PUFA is very easy

Why does nobody else say that? I don't know I guess it is too unpopular.

Pufa have a bad rep for quite a few bloggers/researchers. I mean, vegetable oils, soy, fish oil etc. Same for green vegetables and a few other things. And clearly omega 6 in the American diet has a very bad rep. Studies like rats on soybean oil clearly show they don't do well for example.

 

[uuy8778yyi]

I know.

my point is, I am trying to summarise the diet.

final question : do coffee and chocolate count as "nuts", or are these the exceptions ?

 

[RPDiciple]

I know.

my point is, I am trying to summarise the diet.

final question : do coffee and chocolate count as "nuts", or are these the exceptions ?

'
you clearly have not read anything RP has written so if you really are interested in his writings, search this forum or read his articles on www.raypeat.com because your questions has been answered in his articles and on this forum 9999 times.

So please dont be lazy

 

[Amazoniac]

I know.

my point is, I am trying to summarise the diet.

final question : do coffee and chocolate count as "nuts", or are these the exceptions ?

'
you clearly have not read anything RP has written so if you really are interested in his writings, search this forum or read his articles on http://www.raypeat.com because your questions has been answered in his articles and on this forum 9999 times.

So please dont be lazy

Zero tolerance as always. Haha!

 

[Such_Saturation]

I think it's the thing where nobody else dares to say as much, nobody else says 0.00000000g PUFA is best.

why not ?

if you could do that and a person wanted to, would that be a problem ?

however I don't believe in extreme dieting, but I think avoiding PUFA is very easy

Why does nobody else say that? I don't know I guess it is too unpopular.

Pufa have a bad rep for quite a few bloggers/researchers. I mean, vegetable oils, soy, fish oil etc. Same for green vegetables and a few other things. And clearly omega 6 in the American diet has a very bad rep. Studies like rats on soybean oil clearly show they don't do well for example.

Nobody else says they are not necessary.

 

[Amazoniac]

.. 0.00000000g of PUFA as best.

 

[tara]

.. 0.00000000g of PUFA as best.

It might well be hypothetically, but I rather doubt it is possible for most people (maybe for anybody) to eat enough food to get basic nutrition covered in the long run, and keep PUFA intake this low.
It seems as though the difference between Peat who says it is unnecessary, and other serious researchers who say there is a tiny requirement, is practically speaking irrelevant, since you can't eat food and avoid that tiny amount whether you like it or not.

 

[BingDing]

Well said, tara. And the whole thread is pretty silly.

The OP has obviously not read or studied much of RP or he/she would already know the answer. RP has said that it is impossible to eat 0g of PUFA without a laboratory prepared product, and he has suggested that 4g of PUFA/day is about as good as we can do.

And there are threads about fully saturated CO, for example. All a reader needs to do is search for them.

I would appreciate it if some of the new people to the forum, such as the OP with his/her several uninformed posts, tried to educate themselves a bit by such searching before they ask several times if avocados are OK, for example. The answer is no, BTW.

 

[Amazoniac]

.. 0.00000000g of PUFA as best.

It might well be hypothetically, but I rather doubt it is possible for most people (maybe for anybody) to eat enough food to get basic nutrition covered in the long run, and keep PUFA intake this low.
It seems as though the difference between Peat who says it is unnecessary, and other serious researchers who say there is a tiny requirement, is practically speaking irrelevant, since you can't eat food and avoid that tiny amount whether you like it or not.

I was just quoting Such_ because I agree with him. Even thought it's not possible, it's advantageous to keep that in mind and aim for. If your standards are higher, you probably will get more than the desired and won't be able to benefit fully from its restriction.

 

[uuy8778yyi]

okay

4-10g a day sounds realistic

what does the average american/westerner eat ?