Is A Peat Diet For Me?

[Revo]

Oops your right. Did not multiply. LOL

12 grams per tablespoon x 8 = 96

My bad. I was distracted by the baseball game.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

Yeah that's like 800 calories of fat. Do you eat any fatty meats/dairy on top of that?

 

[Mufasa]

I think 100 gram of fat on a high carb diet could very well explain your weight gain, have you considered that.

I would definitely use cronometer more, it is good way to get your macro nutrients right.

 

[Brian]

I am not sure. Maybe balancing a carb diet is a complex and delicate dance. I never got that vibe from Ray Peat though. But I may be wrong. As for fatty liver disease. My latest blood test did not indicate it. Is there something I should be looking for on this?

Balancing the vitamin and mineral intake co-factors with carb intake is quite automatic and doesn't really require supplementation once the major barriers to oxidative metabolism are removed.

The way I see it there are some major hurdles that you must get over first. The ones I'm aware of are depleting lactic acid, Nitric oxide, increasing insulin sensitivity, and reducing prolactin and serotonin if they are high. Each of them can severely block the utilization of carbs through various pathways. There's lot of valid methods for addressing these hurdles, but I would say the most basic method is to be outdoors and on your feet as much of the day as possible and maybe supplementing B1, magnesium, and a diet high in sodium. If that doesn't start to work after a month or isn't possible for your lifestyle then various substances that reduce serotonin/prolactin and increase dopamine could be considered.

 

[Peata]

Wow, that is depressing. You've been here for 3 years and you can only handle 200g carbs...I just recently reduced my daily carb intake to 150g-175g, because any more than that induces brain fog and fatigue, no matter what supplement/macro ratio/tactic that I use. To make matters worse, I'm underweight--so the common refrain of "eat less fat" isn't feasible. Calories have to come from somewhere--and it's incredibly difficult just to maintain weight on 150g carbs and no PUFA.

But I don't necessarily want to hijack the topic. OP's problem isn't that he can't handle the carbs, but that they're causing him to gain weight. My problem is quite the opposite. I would love to be able to handle enough carbs to gain weight on them, without my head/neck feeling like a melting ice cream cone...

Yeah, by "handle" I'm referring to the weight gain too. I was eating 300 - 500 g. carbs at one time but just nothing happening with weight loss, even with lower fat. Depressing? Yeah. I'm the queen of optimism I suppose, I didn't give up, just kept trying to change things up and get some weight loss and health going. Increasing insulin sensitivity seems to be a big factor, liver health and lowering estrogen/serotonin. I'm just keeping what I'm doing for now, and evaluate once again later.

 

[PhilParma]

Yeah, by "handle" I'm referring to the weight gain too. I was eating 300 - 500 g. carbs at one time but just nothing happening with weight loss, even with lower fat. Depressing? Yeah. I'm the queen of optimism I suppose, I didn't give up, just kept trying to change things up and get some weight loss and health going. Increasing insulin sensitivity seems to be a big factor, liver health and lowering estrogen/serotonin. I'm just keeping what I'm doing for now, and evaluate once again later.

When you were in the 400-500g carb range, were there any negative side effects other than weight gain?

 

[jaguar43]

The weight gain sounds like you have low thyroid. The only thyroid product Ray Peat recommends is cynomel and cynoplus from Grossman.

 

[Revo]

@jag2594 do you think the Thyroid issue is when I only had weight gain after going the Peat route? Wouldn't low thyroid show up regardless of what I eat?

 

[jaguar43]

@jag2594 do you think the Thyroid issue is when I only had weight gain after going the Peat route? Wouldn't low thyroid show up regardless of what I eat?

Not necessarily. People who eat larger amounts of carbohydrates will gain weight if they are low thyroid/low metabolic. The first year of eating Ray Peat recommendations I gain weight, I wasn't eating more on a calorie basis. Just more carbohydrates, but it wasn't much different from what I ate before. I ending up doing a thyroid a panel and I found that I had low t3. I ended taking cynomel and cynoplus and lost the weight and my weight has been fairly stable since.

Since eating more carbohydrates can lower free fatty acids, lipolysis and other stress inducing hormones and chemicals. The weight gain can be problematic if one does't have a good metabolic rate.

A lot of people are walk around with high circulating FFA and lipolysis and think they are fine just because they don't have weight issues. Once they start eating more carbohydrate then they think it has something to do with their diet instead of their metabolic rate.

As someone who has tried a lot of the thyroid products since the demise of Grossman. I can tell you very few came close to the potency compared to them. I haven't tried Tyromax, but usually thyroid at minimum should keep you from gaining weight.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I am 56, with a medium build, not overweight but have a typical American fat belly.

It sounds like you have metabolic syndrome. Most western men are walking around with metabolic syndrome. The waist to hip ratio test will tell you where you’re at but you have to measure it properly. Get a round flexible measuring tape and let your belly hang completely out while standing straight. It’s best to do it at least a few hours after eating/drinking.

Subcutaneous fat is the layer under the skin that is kind of the "default" fat. But visceral fat is dangerous, surrounding your organs, suffocating them with fat.

I have rapidly gained weight and fat primarily across my belly.

That’s because the fat you eat is the fat you wear. Not everyone can burn dietary fat off as muscle fuel and convert the glycerol component of triglyceride into glucose. Most people can’t do it enough, which is why they are walking around with excess adipose tissue and it comes from all of the dietary fat they are eating, all fat; pufa oils, safa dairy, mufa olive oil, omega 3 fish fat, and trans fats, but mostly veg. oil and dairy fat. People who thrive off of high fat diets have some kind of mechanism, most likely enzymes, that allows them to burn free fatty acids and ones that are bound to albumin before storing them as fat droplets in adipose tissue. But if you gain body fat easily, then it's not you. I’m making the assumption that the high fat proponent is healthy and is not overweight because I’ve never met these people in real life whereas I have met successful high carb low fat people in real life. I’m very skeptical of the health of high fat proponents.

I am very active and feel ok.

But I am now fat, and I dont feel good.

?

The fact that you said you do not overeat and the fact that you take thyroid but are still gaining adipose tissue, “have rapidly gained weight and fat primarily across my belly" shows you that it’s not a calorie or thyroid thing, it’s a dietary fat thing; 4 tablespoons of butter and other fats that you are eating daily. It goes right into storage.

Also isn't the brain mostly fat anyway? Like 60% fat?

But saying that therefore one must eat high fat because of that is like saying that you should feed your car metal instead of gasoline. Like "it’s engine is made of metal so feed it metal." It runs on gasoline. The brain has enzymes to make new fats from glucose when needed but it runs on glucose, and only ketones during a famine. Ketosis from water fasting is fine, so long as you are okay with being debilitated because you can't do much. A ketogenic diet on the other hand, is just snake oil sold by salesmen to tell people what they want to hear. Why did Loren Cordain have to make a new version of the Paleo diet called the "Paleo Diet for Athletes" which "allowed carbs?" Because no athlete can perform on low carb. The sole purpose of ketosis is to survive a famine and make it until some fruit and starch is available. The only people who can't go into ketosis are people with an MCAD deficiency.

I like what Guyanet said: "Abdominal fat is a sign of ectopic fat distribution throughout the body, and its associated metabolic consequences. I think we know it's unhealthy on a subconscious level, because belly fat is not attractive whereas nicely distributed subcutaneous fat can be. If you have excess visceral fat, take it as a sign that your body does not like your current lifestyle. It might be time to think about changing your diet and exercise regime."

"The second is called ectopic fat. Ectopic means "not where it's supposed to be". It accumulates in the abdominal region (beer belly), the liver, muscle tissue including the heart, the pancreas, and perhaps in lipid-rich deposits in the arteries. Subcutaneous fat can be measured by taking skinfold thickness in different places on the body, or sometimes by measuring arm or leg circumference. Ectopic fat can be measured by taking waist circumference. "

 

[Revo]

Wow there is a lot there. Thanks for the detailed reply and it will take me a long time to digest this. For now a couple of comments.

Where I said in one part "I am very active and feel ok" and then you quote me again as saying "but now I am fat and dont feel good", maybe I should clarify. When I said I dont feel good, I mean that I feel ok, but not good. I was not saying i feel bad. More specifically I feel bloated and overweight.

As for the metabolic syndrome, I do not know. I tend to not have any illness overall. But I am going to look into this for sure.

Here is a direct quote from the Mayo Clinic on metabolic syndrome:
"Metabolic syndrome is a cluster of conditions — increased blood pressure, high blood sugar, excess body fat around the waist, and abnormal cholesterol or triglyceride levels — that occur together, increasing your risk of heart disease, stroke and diabetes.

Having just one of these conditions doesn't mean you have metabolic syndrome. However, any of these conditions increase your risk of serious disease. Having more than one of these might increase your risk even more."

Of this cluster of conditions I only have excess body fat around the waist. So does that mean I have metabolic syndrome? Also from the Mayo clinic it says a waist of 40 inches or higher mine is 34. The hip to waist ratio is 9.04 with above 9.0 as being indicative of too high. So right on the cusp for that.

As for many comments focusing on my fat intake and recommending I reduce my fat intake and keep the high level of carbs. Thanks for that advice I am going to seriously consider it even after being on the Peat stuff for 6 months. But I must ask. If I am back to a high carb, low fat, diet am I not right back to the typical american fad weight loss diets minus the PUFAs and eating a small amount of good fat? There is quite a bit of evidence to show that this does not really work.

Finally for the low fat diets there have been quite a few comparisons of low fat to low carb in the last few years and many show that low carb is a more effective way of losing weight. One web site quoted 23 different randomized, controlled trials. And in addition the studies showed other health benefits (though not consistent in all studies). Triglycerides went down, insulin sensitivity improved, fasting glucose, and insulin also went down.

I admit I may not have the physiology correct on my statement about the brain needing fat and it being comprised of fat, that was a quote that was told to me by a doctor who supports a high fat low carb diet. But the benefits of high fat and ketogenic diet is very compelling. Take a look at the Charlie Foundation who was founded on the treatment of epilipetic siezures. Ketogenic diet has been very sucessful, in not only controlling all kinds of seizures but also in other brain disorders including, ALS,Brain Tumors, Autism, Alzheimers,Parkinsons Disease, Mitochondrial disorders. It seems to me that there is significant evidence to believe a high fat Ketogenic diet can be beneficial?

 

[Peata]

When you were in the 400-500g carb range, were there any negative side effects other than weight gain?

All I can remember specifically at the moment is feeling like low blood sugar issues came more and was hungrier fast between meals, though biotin helped with this, particularly overnight.

 

[YuraCZ]

That’s because the fat you eat is the fat you wear. Not everyone can burn dietary fat off as muscle fuel and convert the glycerol component of triglyceride into glucose. Most people can’t do it enough, which is why they are walking around with excess adipose tissue and it comes from all of the dietary fat they are eating, all fat; pufa oils, safa dairy, mufa olive oil, omega 3 fish fat, and trans fats, but mostly veg. oil and dairy fat. People who thrive off of high fat diets have some kind of mechanism, most likely enzymes, that allows them to burn free fatty acids and ones that are bound to albumin before storing them as fat droplets in adipose tissue. But if you gain body fat easily, then it's not you. I’m making the assumption that the high fat proponent is healthy and is not overweight because I’ve never met these people in real life whereas I have met successful high carb low fat people in real life. I’m very skeptical of the health of high fat proponents.

C'mon man. You really believe it's true? It is excess of calories what makes you fat. I know it's popular statement from Mcdougall, but its heavily laughable..

 

[What-a-Riot]

C'mon man. You really believe it's true? It is excess of calories what makes you fat. I know it's popular statement from Mcdougall, but its heavily laughable..

Are you fairly ok with eating PUFA then? At least relative to others around here?

 

[Mufasa]

C'mon man. You really believe it's true? It is excess of calories what makes you fat. I know it's popular statement from Mcdougall, but its heavily laughable..

What about the study that show that carbs are only converted in fat in humans when heavily overfeeding? I think it was only after eating more than 500 gram of carbs a day, the carbs were converted in fat. So no, not all calories are made equal as it comes to weight gain.

 

[YuraCZ]

Are you fairly ok with eating PUFA then? At least relative to others around here?

I'm definitely against high omega 6 sources. Vegetable oils, most seeds and nuts, corn and soy fed pork, poultry, farmed fishes etc.. I'm ok with omega 3 from wild animals and eggs and some omega 6 from olive oil, fruits etc..

 

[YuraCZ]

What about the study that show that carbs are only converted in fat in humans when heavily overfeeding? I think it was only after eating more than 500 gram of carbs a day, the carbs were converted in fat. So no, not all calories are made equal as it comes to weight gain.

Statement "the fat you eat is the fat you wear" is nonsense period.

 

[Mufasa]

Statement "the fat you eat is the fat you wear" is nonsense period.

Why do you think that? Have you read the study Im referring to?

 

[YuraCZ]

Why do you think that? Have you read the study Im referring to?

Because there is A LOT of people on high fat diets and they are not fat. So how is that possible if "the fat you eat is the fat you wear" lol

Fat can be more problematic for the people who are not aware how much calories their food has. It is much easier to eat alot of calories with fat. Becaouse food taste better, fat has 2x more calories per gram then carbs and also fat don't need much space in the stomach. Like sodas and fruit juices. When some people get fat just because they drink 2000 kcal easily in those beverages..

 

[Mufasa]

Because there is A LOT of people on high fat diets and they are not fat. So how is that possible if "the fat you eat is the fat you wear" lol

Fat can be more problematic for the people who are not aware how much calories their food has. It is much easier to eat alot of calories with fat. Becaouse food taste better, fat has 2x more calories per gram then carbs and also fat don't need much space in the stomach. Like sodas and fruit juices. When some people get fat. Just because they drink 2000 kcal easily in those beverages..

I think you dont understand the point, if you eat high fat low carb, and your metabolism is higher than your fat intake, you will loose weight of course. But if you eat more fat than you burn, you will gain weight.

However, if you eat low fat high carb, even if you are overfeeding, it is hard for the body to store those carbs as fat. It is much much easier for the body to store fat calories as fat, then to store carb calories as fat, that is the point.

So many people have done experiments eating very low fat, and around 1kg of sugar from fruits or whatever, and they dont gain any weight. Why? Because the body enlarges the glycogen storage first, and then preferes to burn the extra sugar as heat, instead of storing it as fat.

However if you eat 500g of sugar, and then add to this a lot of fat, your bodies energy needs are already satisfied with the carbs, and the extra fat is very easily stored as body fat, so many people rapidly gain weight on high carb + high fat diets. The OP is an example of that.