Is 2000mg calcium REALLY needed?

you

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I get about 1400mg on current diet, which is already quite a bit over the RDI. I don't need anymore nutrients, I'm hitting 100% on everything and over 100g protein.

Peat seems to pretty much always recommend 2000mg calcium/day in podcasts. To get 2000mg calcium, I'd need to drink 2 more cups of milk, boosting my protein to 120g as well.

Is 2000mg even any more beneficial than like 1400mg? Seems like Peat is going a bit overboard here.
 

Mittir

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Basic idea is t suppress PTH. Calcium, magensium, vitamin D , A , K, ratio of calcium to phosphorus
control PTH. His general guideline for calcium is as followed:

1000-1200 mg for bone health
1500 to suppress PTH if PTH is high
2000 for blood pressure control
 

Dean

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Mittir said:
Basic idea is t suppress PTH. Calcium, magensium, vitamin D , A , K, ratio of calcium to phosphorus
control PTH. His general guideline for calcium is as followed:

1000-1200 mg for bone health
1500 to suppress PTH if PTH is high
2000 for blood pressure control

What's your take on a baseline intake of the fat solubles?

Wasn't aware of the relation between calcium and blood pressure. I'm guessing 2000 reduces blood pressure? So, if you have low blood pressure should you avoid getting as much as 2000?
 

Mittir

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RP recommends calcium/dairy for weight loss. Calcium activates uncoupling protein.
He thinks lowered PTH is the cause for this.I have seen several studies that showed
1000-12000 mg of calcium causing weight loss, it usually takes a long time, about a year.

He mentioned hypothyroidism can cause both low and high blood pressure.
So, it is not about single substance lowering or increasing
blood pressure. The way i understand is that increased calcium is not going to lower blood pressure
if blood pressure is already low. People with low pressure usually raise their pressure by
taking salt and or egg protein. Quality protein increases albumin.

If vitamin D and other PTH controlling factors are high then one can lower PTH with
suboptimal calcium intake.

There are a lot of interaction among fat soluble vitamins. I use very few supplements
and try to avoid taking large doses. I was getting great result with 1600 IU of vitamin E
then found out that high dose E depletes vitamin K in a short period of time.
I read few studies that found high dose vitamin E does not cause coagulation problem.
Later found one study that showed coagulation problem happens at much lower level of vitamin K.
I have to read more about fat soluble vitamin's ratio before i decide to take large doses.

I loosely follow RDA for vitamins and most of RP's recommendation falls within RDA.
Vitamin A from liver and milk- 5,000-10,000 IU
Vitamin E : 400 IU
Vitamin K : 200-300 mcg from Liver and greens.
Vitamin D: 2,000-4,000 IU daily. I get very little sun.
The main benefits of vitamin D comes from daily intake.
 

Blinkyrocket

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What about the opposite of the spectrum? Say, 3500mg of calcium. I wish I could get milk protein without calcium, except then there would be a tryptophan problem and, maybe that much calcium isnt so bad?
 

Elephanto

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No civilization except the masai tribe has ever consumed that much calcium and their life expectancy is 45 years old for women and 42 for men, which of course can't be only explained by their calcium intake but makes a case that very high calcium intake isn't a life extender or essential, and high igf-1 is probably another reason.

All of the world's blue zones consume more phosphate than calcium. Even if calcium doesn't surpass phosphate, it still can significantly reduce pth.

Milk is very high in phosphate, and even if it makes up with higher calcium, high phosphate intake is hard on the kidneys. 2 quarts of milk contain 1800mg of phosphate, for only 60g of protein. In comparison, 60g of beef protein contain about 450mg of phosphate.

There's few naturally occuring ways to consume/absorb a lot of calcium except milk, and milk isn't naturally consumed by adults of any specie. It is the one food that promotes growth (igf-1) more than any other food. Great for bodybuilders and athletes.

Personally, I think it is best to consume less phosphate so you don't need as much calcium. For instance, an all-fruit diet probably contains enough calcium and protein for any vegan specie.
 

tara

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Elephanto said:
Personally, I think it is best to consume less phosphate so you don't need as much calcium. For instance, an all-fruit diet probably contains enough calcium and protein for any vegan specie.
I don't think humans are a vegan (herbivore) species. :)
If you could get lots of really well-grown, high-brix fruit and veges, you might be able to get a long way mineral-wise on them. Most available fruit and veges aren't that mineral dense, though, since typical soils are pretty depleted. And protein has to come from somewhere.
 

Elephanto

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Our teeth are the same as primates and they are fruitarians. I do think that consuming meat has made us superior but probably at the cost of longevity.

Fruits contain protein, you'd get about 60g of protein if you'd consume 2500kcals of oranges, and I think they still contain a lot of minerals. I know my orange juice has plenty of potassium and some calcium. The soil doesn't seem to affect fruits or even tubers (potatoes still have plenty of potassium and calcium) as much as grains. Don't cows get their calcium from eating grass? If the soil is so severely depleted I guess milk wouldn't have much calcium.
 

Blinkyrocket

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Elephanto said:
No civilization except the masai tribe has ever consumed that much calcium and their life expectancy is 45 years old for women and 42 for men, which of course can't be only explained by their calcium intake but makes a case that very high calcium intake isn't a life extender or essential, and high igf-1 is probably another reason.

All of the world's blue zones consume more phosphate than calcium. Even if calcium doesn't surpass phosphate, it still can significantly reduce pth.

Milk is very high in phosphate, and even if it makes up with higher calcium, high phosphate intake is hard on the kidneys. 2 quarts of milk contain 1800mg of phosphate, for only 60g of protein. In comparison, 60g of beef protein contain about 450mg of phosphate.

There's few naturally occuring ways to consume/absorb a lot of calcium except milk, and milk isn't naturally consumed by adults of any specie. It is the one food that promotes growth (igf-1) more than any other food. Great for bodybuilders and athletes.

Personally, I think it is best to consume less phosphate so you don't need as much calcium. For instance, an all-fruit diet probably contains enough calcium and protein for any vegan specie.
If what you say about promoting growth is true than you've definitely made me wanna drink MORE milk :P I kid, I "only" got 2300mg of calcium today but visionofstrength gets 5000mg O_O and he says he's pretty muscular.
 

Elephanto

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Blinkyrocket said:
Elephanto said:
No civilization except the masai tribe has ever consumed that much calcium and their life expectancy is 45 years old for women and 42 for men, which of course can't be only explained by their calcium intake but makes a case that very high calcium intake isn't a life extender or essential, and high igf-1 is probably another reason.

All of the world's blue zones consume more phosphate than calcium. Even if calcium doesn't surpass phosphate, it still can significantly reduce pth.

Milk is very high in phosphate, and even if it makes up with higher calcium, high phosphate intake is hard on the kidneys. 2 quarts of milk contain 1800mg of phosphate, for only 60g of protein. In comparison, 60g of beef protein contain about 450mg of phosphate.

There's few naturally occuring ways to consume/absorb a lot of calcium except milk, and milk isn't naturally consumed by adults of any specie. It is the one food that promotes growth (igf-1) more than any other food. Great for bodybuilders and athletes.

Personally, I think it is best to consume less phosphate so you don't need as much calcium. For instance, an all-fruit diet probably contains enough calcium and protein for any vegan specie.
If what you say about promoting growth is true than you've definitely made me wanna drink MORE milk :P I kid, I "only" got 2300mg of calcium today but visionofstrength gets 5000mg O_O and he says he's pretty muscular.

Growth is a synonym for aging.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/gr ... mone.shtml
 

Blinkyrocket

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Elephanto said:
Our teeth are the same as primates and they are fruitarians. I do think that consuming meat has made us superior but probably at the cost of longevity.

Fruits contain protein, you'd get about 60g of protein if you'd consume 2500kcals of oranges, and I think they still contain a lot of minerals. I know my orange juice has plenty of potassium and some calcium. The soil doesn't seem to affect fruits or even tubers (potatoes still have plenty of potassium and calcium) as much as grains. Don't cows get their calcium from eating grass? If the soil is so severely depleted I guess milk wouldn't have much calcium.
30 cups of orange juice?.... India is vegan and they don't live very long, course they're very poor so that's not a good example I guess.
 

Blinkyrocket

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Elephanto said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Elephanto said:
No civilization except the masai tribe has ever consumed that much calcium and their life expectancy is 45 years old for women and 42 for men, which of course can't be only explained by their calcium intake but makes a case that very high calcium intake isn't a life extender or essential, and high igf-1 is probably another reason.

All of the world's blue zones consume more phosphate than calcium. Even if calcium doesn't surpass phosphate, it still can significantly reduce pth.

Milk is very high in phosphate, and even if it makes up with higher calcium, high phosphate intake is hard on the kidneys. 2 quarts of milk contain 1800mg of phosphate, for only 60g of protein. In comparison, 60g of beef protein contain about 450mg of phosphate.

There's few naturally occuring ways to consume/absorb a lot of calcium except milk, and milk isn't naturally consumed by adults of any specie. It is the one food that promotes growth (igf-1) more than any other food. Great for bodybuilders and athletes.

Personally, I think it is best to consume less phosphate so you don't need as much calcium. For instance, an all-fruit diet probably contains enough calcium and protein for any vegan specie.
If what you say about promoting growth is true than you've definitely made me wanna drink MORE milk :P I kid, I "only" got 2300mg of calcium today but visionofstrength gets 5000mg O_O and he says he's pretty muscular.

Growth is a synonym for aging.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/gr ... mone.shtml

Well, muscle=fast metabolism... sorta, higher muscle mass is associated with longevity. *shrugs* I know growth hormone is bad but it's all a balance between cortisol and insulin apparently, also apparently normal growth hormone production is in pulses and it's the chronic continued elevation of growth hormone that is the problem.
 

YuraCZ

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Elephanto said:
Our teeth are the same as primates and they are fruitarians. I do think that consuming meat has made us superior but probably at the cost of longevity.

Fruits contain protein, you'd get about 60g of protein if you'd consume 2500kcals of oranges, and I think they still contain a lot of minerals. I know my orange juice has plenty of potassium and some calcium. The soil doesn't seem to affect fruits or even tubers (potatoes still have plenty of potassium and calcium) as much as grains. Don't cows get their calcium from eating grass? If the soil is so severely depleted I guess milk wouldn't have much calcium.
 
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Elephanto

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Indians consume a lot of milk... Plus there's some evidence that curcumin has some life-shortening effects.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 24967/full (dna damage, ros, and I think it's estrogenic)

I do like igf-1, it's pretty good for young people but promotes cancer as you get older. a study finds it correlates with social status, I don't know if it's only because it makes people taller and tall people are usually more respected but I like to think there's other aspects to it (cause I'm not gonna grow anymore lol).

about your other post : igf-1 doesn't fluctuate like growth hormone. While igf-1 depends on growth hormone's levels it is also independently promoted by the amino acid methionine and by milk. also by testosterone. Women have higher growth hormone but lower igf-1, suggesting it is more the latter that restrain longevity. There's a misconception that Laron syndrome (protected from several cancers) have low gh but they actually have gh resistance, and like insulin resistance, this mean high growth hormone that can't be properly used. They have several health problems despite being protected from cancer. IGF-1 itself promotes aging and cancer.

If higher muscle mass correlates with longevity, you'd expect men to live much longer than women.
 

Elephanto

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Here's an ape that consume fruits.
monkey-white-teeth-300x300.jpg


Here's the ape in your video.
19014595-M.jpg


Spot the difference!
 

YuraCZ

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Elephanto said:
Here's an ape that consume fruits.
monkey-white-teeth-300x300.jpg


Here's the ape in your video.
19014595-M.jpg


Spot the difference!
Are you blind or what? Chimpanze on the video eats another monkey..
 

Elephanto

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I couldn't really see their teeth but in the description, it mentioned colobus monkeys. It must be hard to eat raw meat with teeth such as the first ape. Maybe they have high serotonin or something.
 

YuraCZ

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Elephanto said:
I couldn't really see their teeth but in the description, it mentioned colobus monkeys. It must be hard to eat raw meat with teeth such as the first ape. Maybe they have high serotonin or something.

You have no idea what you talking about so pls..

 
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Elephanto

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Dude, chimpanzee teeth look like this :

Yawning+Darwin.JPG


The dentition of an animal determines if it is vegan or carnivore. There's no way an ape that have teeth similar as us would be eating raw meat.
 

YuraCZ

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So which species of monkey is on the first picture that you posted if not chimpanzee?
 

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