Irritable Bowel

[InChristAlone]

One of my long standing health issues is irritable bowel, I can't seem to stop it, I asked Dr. Peat what causes it and he said this:

High estrogen increases the production of serotonin that can cause cramps, and of nitric oxide, that causes flushing and sweating. More protein in the diet and better thyroid function might prevent it.

The only time I have gotten complete relief for months is while pregnant and/or not menstruating, so he is right it is worse around ovulation and when progesterone drops at the start of my cycle. But I have been trying to work on estrogen for a year now, using a glob of progest-e morning and night 2nd half of my cycle. Cypro doesn't seem to stop gut serotonin for me. I found cascara to be too stimulating at those high estrogen times, it results in good movements- I never have diarrhea, I usually go once a day, but the release of serotonin and cramping can be worse than child birth! especially when the aftermath means hopelessness and everything that goes along with serotonin.

Has anyone else dealt with this?

 

[Anonymous]

One of my long standing health issues is irritable bowel, I can't seem to stop it, I asked Dr. Peat what causes it and he said this:

High estrogen increases the production of serotonin that can cause cramps, and of nitric oxide, that causes flushing and sweating. More protein in the diet and better thyroid function might prevent it.

The only time I have gotten complete relief for months is while pregnant and/or not menstruating, so he is right it is worse around ovulation and when progesterone drops at the start of my cycle. But I have been trying to work on estrogen for a year now, using a glob of progest-e morning and night 2nd half of my cycle. Cypro doesn't seem to stop gut serotonin for me. I found cascara to be too stimulating at those high estrogen times, it results in good movements- I never have diarrhea, I usually go once a day, but the release of serotonin and cramping can be worse than child birth! especially when the aftermath means hopelessness and everything that goes along with serotonin.

Has anyone else dealt with this?

Ondansertron...have you tried that?

 

[InChristAlone]

No I have not tried Zofran, it is on my list though especially since this happens every month around the same time I could dose it around those times to see if it really is the problem.

 

[Anonymous]

Yea I tried it this week and it's great...I wonder what cyproheptadine dose would be necessary to achieve the level of antagonism of 5ht3 that 4 mg zofran does. (Waits for Haidut to chime in)

 

[haidut]

Yea I tried it this week and it's great...I wonder what cyproheptadine dose would be necessary to achieve the level of antagonism of 5ht3 that 4 mg zofran does. (Waits for Haidut to chime in)

The Wikipedia page says cyproheptadine is 5-HT3 antagonist with Km of 228 nM.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprohept ... armacology

A study in humans found that 8mg oral cyproheptadine resulted in peak concentrations of about 115nM, so assuming linear dose-response relationship it would mean that 16mg of cyproheptadine should work like ondansetron. However, cypro has been shown to have semi-exponential kinetics so in reality 12mg in a single dose will probably achieve that concentration and in people with sluggish livers even 8mg may do.

 

[InChristAlone]

Wow 8-12mg? I have only ever gotten up to 1 mg due to excessive sleepiness and thats after the zombie period. I know some people say taking a large dose once and sleeping a lot is better than lower doses more frequently though. Its just I don't even have one day to sleep a lot with young kids around.

 

[InChristAlone]

So no other ideas besides drugs? I saw someone mentioned in another group that potassium supplements stopped their IBS since hypokalemia can cause muscle cramps. I wouldn't be surprised if I needed more potassium since I usually struggle to get over 3500 mg and I breastfeed.

 

[johns74]

Have you ever tested iron stores? Ferritin and transferrin saturation?

 

[InChristAlone]

I've never had ferritin tested, I thought the last dr would do it since they were putting me on thyroid (I can't tolerate it though), and they only tested these:
Iron 112 range 40-200
Total Iron Binding 261 range 200-375
unsaturated iron binding 149 range 155-355
%iron saturation 43 20-55

That was last summer, and the IBS has gotten worse since then.

 

[johns74]

%iron saturation 43 20-55

High for Peat's numbers.

 

[InChristAlone]

Yes I think I had a lot of iron, I've only had a few iron tests, but the first one a few years ago showed a pretty high iron for a woman anyway, the 112 is much lower so I think it has come down probably due to a Peat inspired diet and pregnancy/nursing/menstruating. But I do have the tendency to binge on breakfast cereals which is a lot of bad iron.

 

[johns74]

Regarding the 112, I think the serum iron is not very relevant to diagnose excess iron stores, which is what creates problems.

 

[johns74]

But I do have the tendency to binge on breakfast cereals which is a lot of bad iron.

Testing alternatives might be worth it.

 

[messtafarian]

I couldn't find Haidut's original post on this but at some point he posted a study that said that super-saturating levels of thiamine could cure either IBS or colitis, can't remember. However, I tried this in late April and that was the beginning of near-normal bowel function for me in over a year. I also used cypro and stopped all acidic foods for a while, including coffee, which blocks thiamine anyway.

Damn I miss coffee. But my bathroom is a happier place these days :)

 

[Giraffe]

Have you tried non food related approaches? I found that a constricted pelvid floor causes me cramps in the bowel. This sometimes happens (unconsiously) when I am very concentrated or when something is tiring my eyes (like reading when the light is bad).

 

[InChristAlone]

Yeah coffee may be an irritant for me, I've had 8 episodes since re-introducing last month which is the most ever in the last few years by far. But also I realized that I was trying to take more magnesium recently as well, and that always led to an episode the next day . So I guess my gut is very sensitive to magnesium on top of coffee intake. I will try thiamine thanks I haven't been taking that much.

Pelvic floor could be an issue as well.

 

[tara]

Do you get unwanted gut symptoms from magnesium in food form? eg green broths? Or transdermal?

 

[Birdie]

I had IBS. Hope that's past tense.
My last episode was year before last, in October. Maybe a couple of minor episodes of churning or slight cramps since then.

The last series, ending that October, were those childbirth pain ones. Exactly, except you get no baby result.

In my case, coffee with milk is not a trigger. But I have lots of milk with small amounts of coffee, and sugar and a pinch of salt. I use 1% milk.

I think, that these peppermint capsules I take every evening are helping. It's always hard to tell because one could have changed something else, and that could be the cause. But I take the enteric coated kind. Peppermint supposedly opens the esophageal sphincter if it isn't enteric coated. But I was eating peppermints for a long time and it didn't seem to open my sphincter.

Peppermint relaxes. You want the colon relaxed, not the sphincter.. Just trying to remember for you. But there is no magic key, no hit it all supplement. It's all a combination.

I also use betaine hydrochloride with meals like eggs and bacon. But I've used that for 30 years. It's good in general if your stomach acid is low. It often is with IBS you probably know.

I never eat breakfast cereals. Quit those many years ago. That's a load of starch. Really not a food is it.

I seem to recall Ray's advising against thiamine. Could be wrong there. I think it is Jaminet who recommends it. Ray's reasoning made sense to me.

Just remembered that when I felt an attack coming on, using any oil, including progest E, would cause nausea.
Another thing that helps me is to eat small meals.

 

[InChristAlone]

Do you get unwanted gut symptoms from magnesium in food form? eg green broths? Or transdermal?

No, not that I can connect, just had an epsom salt bath last night and all is well so far. Had a normal BM yesterday and I didn't change anything besides maybe getting a bit more potassium than usual.

 

[InChristAlone]

I had IBS. Hope that's past tense.
My last episode was year before last, in October. Maybe a couple of minor episodes of churning or slight cramps since then.

The last series, ending that October, were those childbirth pain ones. Exactly, except you get no baby result.

In my case, coffee with milk is not a trigger. But I have lots of milk with small amounts of coffee, and sugar and a pinch of salt. I use 1% milk.

I think, that these peppermint capsules I take every evening are helping. It's always hard to tell because one could have changed something else, and that could be the cause. But I take the enteric coated kind. Peppermint supposedly opens the esophageal sphincter if it isn't enteric coated. But I was eating peppermints for a long time and it didn't seem to open my sphincter.

Peppermint relaxes. You want the colon relaxed, not the sphincter.. Just trying to remember for you. But there is no magic key, no hit it all supplement. It's all a combination.

I also use betaine hydrochloride with meals like eggs and bacon. But I've used that for 30 years. It's good in general if your stomach acid is low. It often is with IBS you probably know.

I never eat breakfast cereals. Quit those many years ago. That's a load of starch. Really not a food is it.

I seem to recall Ray's advising against thiamine. Could be wrong there. I think it is Jaminet who recommends it. Ray's reasoning made sense to me.

Just remembered that when I felt an attack coming on, using any oil, including progest E, would cause nausea.
Another thing that helps me is to eat small meals.

Thanks for sharing your experience! I am still breastfeeding so I think peppermint is one that I can't do much of. I am trying my hardest not to crave cereal, haven't had it in a couple weeks. I am going to see if it is low potassium causing the cramping. In another group someone mentioned they only had the cramping side of IBS and potassium supps could stop it in its tracks. That gives me hope! Maybe coffee causes an increase of potassium excretion I am not sure.