Iron

[bornamachine]

Iron deficiency and inflammation affect T4 to T3 conversion - Thyroid UK | HealthUnlocked



Some important information about iron. Many moons ago I ran across the ray peat article about the dangers of iron and also on the life extensions website as well, I got myself checked and had a high 67% saturation with something like 360ul ferretin, not crazy high but still high according to more alternative view points, saturation was high from any view point. I proceed to donate blood and actually start to feel better, my ferretin stores taper off and off and off and then on my 4th or 5th donation the day after I experience something I've never had before, crashes, all of assuden my energy falls to a point where I can't do much pgysiy until I snack something, that cycle continues up and down up and down transforming now into a physoclogical thing where my brain shuts down if I do not eat frequent, I start to gain weight and it's been a real battle for the last couple years, I then start to make the connection between blood glucose and the liver and the thyroid and finally couple weeks ago typed in iron T3 t4 into Froogle and it was like a light switched on, I might be iron defecient! My latest woe started next day after donating with nothing similar since, I am 29m by the way and my current serum ferretin is around 60, I tried to take a little iron about 50mg spread over 7 days and felt my crashes subside some but then started to feel some thyroid pain, I've just gotten tested for iron panel today and await my results. To everyone else it's my word of caution, if you are not super overloaded be careful trying to lower iron too quick. I'll keep you updated and if you have valuable info to chime in, please do. Thank you

 

[bluewren]

Interesting post, @bornamachine. I have experienced the same thing.....one year very high iron and ferritin levels, and saturation 70%. I donated blood 3 monthly 3 times, then noticed weakness, hair falling out and breathlessness. I had labs done, and was stunned to see Ferritin at 13!! Saturation was down to 38%. My GP suggested iron tablets...NO THANKS.
I have learned that for me, 4 monthly blood donations are better than 3 monthly. I will continue to check blood levels from time to time to keep in check.

 

[bornamachine]

I'm not sure I follow what you mean by 4 monthly rather then 3 monthly, with those ferretin values you better not donate any until you get your iron up! I think k you better listen to your GP and get your levels up. I got my results back today and my serum ferretin (circulating iron) and ferretin (intercellular iron) are both around 100 now one is Ug/Ng redpectevily with 39% saturation.
I've continued on to the second hemaplex brand iron pill, I took about a 20th of the pill last night (I grind it up and store it in a capsule so it doesn't oxidise then use a little at a time with food mixed with juice) anyway, a very scary thing happened today, I had a similar event about 4 years ago or so, I was at work and all of a sudden I started to feel like I am about to fall over and faint I felt like I was having a heart attack, so far it was the scariest thing I've lived through, and literally lived through because I was sure that was it for me, the whole event took about 10 seconds of intensith and then coming back into myself and stabilizing some, my chest felt tightish and throat too but my heart beat the same, I walked back to my water and took some aspirin and water, it took about 30 minutes to totally calm down as I probably had an adrenaline surge from the "near death" experience but I recovered and to my surprise I was able to work today without crashing, I didn't think much of the event rest of day but then I thought, what if that shock to the system was my body switching back to burning glycogen storage or my T3 kicking back in because I've eaten half the good I normally eat and I am really hungry now as I write this but I know my body is running off reserves as usually I would not be able to think or write or even drive home if I didn't eat something, so I will see how it goes, k plan to raise my iron back to 150+ range as anything is better then crashing or having insulin resistance slash "type2 diabetes"

 

[bornamachine]

What's your age gender and story regarding iron, how did u you decide to lower it bybwhat means how long and what effects did you feel?

Interesting post, @bornamachine. I have experienced the same thing.....one year very high iron and ferritin levels, and saturation 70%. I donated blood 3 monthly 3 times, then noticed weakness, hair falling out and breathlessness. I had labs done, and was stunned to see Ferritin at 13!! Saturation was down to 38%. My GP suggested iron tablets...NO THANKS.
I have learned that for me, 4 monthly blood donations are better than 3 monthly. I will continue to check blood levels from time to time to keep in check.

 

[dbh25]

@bornamachine, thanks for posting.
If you do have high iron, I'd recommend 2 donations per year, tracking each time with an iron panel. And then going to 1 donation per year.
I went low ferritin, and I could not sleep and it's been months and my sleep is not 100%

 

[bornamachine]

Oh yeah track and all that, k had a panel done after every donation, I got like 7 of em, didnt help with the fact that, that one fateful donation where I started to crash afterwards, what your story?

@bornamachine, thanks for posting.
If you do have high iron, I'd recommend 2 donations per year, tracking each time with an iron panel. And then going to 1 donation per year.
I went low ferritin, and I could not sleep and it's been months and my sleep is not 100%

 

[dbh25]

Oh yeah track and all that, k had a panel done after every donation, I got like 7 of em, didnt help with the fact that, that one fateful donation where I started to crash afterwards, what your story?

Sounds similar to your story. I donated about every 10 weeks until my ferritin was 30. I donated a few times the next year, when I should have stopped. I was totally exhausted for a period of time, and then the bottom fell out. Exhaustion, and not being able to sleep is a horrible state. My rbc panel was normal, (non anemic) so it went undiagnosed.
I took 10mg/day of liquid iron for a month, and my ferritin got back to 40. I plan to retest in a few months, not supplementing.
I would describe it as if your iron is low enough for long enough, something snaps in your body so even when your iron comes up, it takes a long time before your body resets.

 

[bluewren]

I'm not sure I follow what you mean by 4 monthly rather then 3 monthly, with those ferretin values you better not donate any until you get your iron up! I think k you better listen to your GP and get your levels up. I got my results back today and my serum ferretin (circulating iron) and ferretin (intercellular iron) are both around 100 now one is Ug/Ng redpectevily with 39% saturation.
I've continued on to the second hemaplex brand iron pill, I took about a 20th of the pill last night (I grind it up and store it in a capsule so it doesn't oxidise then use a little at a time with food mixed with juice) anyway, a very scary thing happened today, I had a similar event about 4 years ago or so, I was at work and all of a sudden I started to feel like I am about to fall over and faint I felt like I was having a heart attack, so far it was the scariest thing I've lived through, and literally lived through because I was sure that was it for me, the whole event took about 10 seconds of intensith and then coming back into myself and stabilizing some, my chest felt tightish and throat too but my heart beat the same, I walked back to my water and took some aspirin and water, it took about 30 minutes to totally calm down as I probably had an adrenaline surge from the "near death" experience but I recovered and to my surprise I was able to work today without crashing, I didn't think much of the event rest of day but then I thought, what if that shock to the system was my body switching back to burning glycogen storage or my T3 kicking back in because I've eaten half the good I normally eat and I am really hungry now as I write this but I know my body is running off reserves as usually I would not be able to think or write or even drive home if I didn't eat something, so I will see how it goes, k plan to raise my iron back to 150+ range as anything is better then crashing or having insulin resistance slash "type2 diabetes"

To be clear, those very low iron panel results were 2 years ago. I am heterozygous for the C282Y and H63D mutations. I am female, 59 yo.
Latest iron panel as of last week.....Iron 31.5 umol/L (5-30)
Saturation 63%
Ferritin 34 ug/L (30-300)
I will donate blood again later in the year, and of course check labs accordingly. I hope never to be at the place I was 2 years ago.
All the best.

 

[brigadierbarty]

To be clear, those very low iron panel results were 2 years ago. I am heterozygous for the C282Y and H63D mutations. I am female, 59 yo.
Latest iron panel as of last week.....Iron 31.5 umol/L (5-30)
Saturation 63%
Ferritin 34 ug/L (30-300)
I will donate blood again later in the year, and of course check labs accordingly. I hope never to be at the place I was 2 years ago.
All the best.

With a ferritin of 34 you really shouldn't be donating. The ideal ferritin is probably 70+.

 

[bornamachine]

So you plan to donate again? Have you found out what could be the cause of a low serum iron and serum ferretin in conjunction with a high saturation?

To be clear, those very low iron panel results were 2 years ago. I am heterozygous for the C282Y and H63D mutations. I am female, 59 yo.
Latest iron panel as of last week.....Iron 31.5 umol/L (5-30)
Saturation 63%
Ferritin 34 ug/L (30-300)
I will donate blood again later in the year, and of course check labs accordingly. I hope never to be at the place I was 2 years ago.
All the best.

 

[bornamachine]

With a ferritin of 34 you really shouldn't be donating. The ideal ferritin is probably 70+.

I also agree with that statement.

 

[dbh25]

With a ferritin of 34 you really shouldn't be donating. The ideal ferritin is probably 70+.

I wouldn't donate at < 80

 

[bluewren]

My readings are from Australia, ug/L. Is that your equivalent?

 

[dbh25]

ng/ml (US)
It's equivalent, the numerator and denominator are *1000 for the Aus. units

 

[tankasnowgod]

With a ferritin of 34 you really shouldn't be donating. The ideal ferritin is probably 70+.

The range of ferritin that doctors aim for when de-ironing a patient with high iron levels is between 25-75, for maintenance. As far as "ideal," that hasn't been determined, but when women hit menopause, their ferritin usually shoots up from an average of about 30 to 89. That's the same point that their risk of heart disease becomes the same as that of a man. So, it's probably somewhere in that 25-75 range, and might depend on a number of other factors (activity level, hemoglobin status, B vitamin status, and so on).

 

[tankasnowgod]

So you plan to donate again? Have you found out what could be the cause of a low serum iron and serum ferretin in conjunction with a high saturation?

Well, according to the lab range she posted, she has high serum iron. But the simple explanation for low serum iron along with high TSAT would be low TIBC, since it's the other part of the equation.

 

[brigadierbarty]

The range of ferritin that doctors aim for when de-ironing a patient with high iron levels is between 25-75, for maintenance. As far as "ideal," that hasn't been determined, but when women hit menopause, their ferritin usually shoots up from an average of about 30 to 89. That's the same point that their risk of heart disease becomes the same as that of a man. So, it's probably somewhere in that 25-75 range, and might depend on a number of other factors (activity level, hemoglobin status, B vitamin status, and so on).

Cardiovascular disease should not be the only consideration in determining optimal ferritin levels. The level that's optimal for the organism to thrive may be different from the level that minimizes cardiovascular disease. There are a couple of reasons to believe the former is 70+. Experienced endurance athletes who have a history of iron deficiency often observe that they're faster with a ferritin above 50, and the difference can be quite significant between, say, 25 and 50. I suspect there may be a slight correlation with running ability as you continue to go higher, maybe even into the 70s or 80s. Doctors like Romeo Mariano who treat bodybuilders seem to recommend 60+ from a functional POV. Doctors who treat hair loss often say that a ferritin above 70 is necessary to maximize hair growth in some women. Etc.

I think a ferritin under 40 is way too low. Frankly I wouldn't recommend donation under 100 or so you're dealing with known cardiovascular disease or serious risk factors like lifelong smoking. I also think the optimal ferritin will vary for different people, and some people may feel best at even higher levels.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Cardiovascular disease should not be the only consideration in determining optimal ferritin levels. The level that's optimal for the organism to thrive may be different from the level that minimizes cardiovascular disease. There are a couple of reasons to believe the former is 70+. Experienced endurance athletes who have a history of iron deficiency often observe that they're faster with a ferritin above 50, and the difference can be quite significant between, say, 25 and 50. I suspect there may be a slight correlation with running ability as you continue to go higher, maybe even into the 70s or 80s. Doctors like Romeo Mariano who treat bodybuilders seem to recommend 60+ from a functional POV. Doctors who treat hair loss often say that a ferritin above 70 is necessary to maximize hair growth in some women. Etc.

I think a ferritin under 40 is way too low. Frankly I wouldn't recommend donation under 100 or so you're dealing with known cardiovascular disease or serious risk factors like lifelong smoking. I also think the optimal ferritin will vary for different people, and some people may feel best at even higher levels.

As I stated, the ideal isn't known, but nothing that you mentioned suggests that it is over 70. The low end of the range was designed with more sedentary folks in mind. Athletes and active individuals seem to do better with a ferritin level in the 40-60 range. I know Anthony Colpo mentioned this in his writings on iron.

Also, if you're talking about anyone with "a history of iron deficiency," the measured level could well be different than someone with Hereditary Hemochromatosis. Say the first person was hosting parasites that lower iron- a higher ferritin number would be better, since there is constant downward pressure on the number. While the HFE carrier might do better with a lower number, since there is constant upward pressure on the number.

 

[brigadierbarty]

As I stated, the ideal isn't known, but nothing that you mentioned suggests that it is over 70. The low end of the range was designed with more sedentary folks in mind. Athletes and active individuals seem to do better with a ferritin level in the 40-60 range.

I disagree with this. If a ferritin of 70+ is needed to optimize hair growth, that strongly suggests to me that the average person should not be targeting a ferritin under 70. You can see that OP seems to be having problems even with a ferritin as high as 60, the upper range of what you're saying is optimal for active people. I think all this advice to donate blood one encounters on alternative medicine sites is dangerous. Check your ferritin and if it's over 100 then go ahead and donate once, wait a few months, see how you feel.

 

[bornamachine]

Can we have real people with real world experience post ie " I was at 300 ferretin donated now at 30 ferretin and feel great!" This is turning into a "I've read the studies that you should be X for elderly and X for athletes" look, like I said I donated once twice and had no negative effects but probably around the time I dropped below 100 I started to have extreme insulin resistance symptoms that I now understand are liver and thyroid connected and since iron IS a major component to make that system work I now see why lovlwering my iron basically broke the system to an extent, I've rechecked my iron and I'm at 100 now climbing back up, that being said, today is pretty amazing, since I've not crashed yet today after yesterdays scary episode I've been able to function without constantly eating, I ate at 630am and then again at 1020am, that's nearly 4 hour gap which is a feat for me, I was feeling tired and slightly hungry but could think normally!! Amazing! I'm taking hemaplex iron pill in about 2 weeks I have gone through 1.2 pills (not boxes or bottles, bit pills) total a little at a time, will see how it goes, those pills are also somewhat balanced with zinc copper selenium folate and b vitamins