Iron Deficiency Alters Serum Prolactin (high Prolactin)

[Cirion]

If you can't sleep more than 4 hrs a night and your weight is very low this points to a very specific problem... you aren't eating enough calories.

The average joe these days is not good at eating the right amount of food. We have managed to lose touch of our hunger senses. Most people either under eat or over eat and there isn't a balance anymore.

 

[Dezertfox]

You are right. I have digestive issues as well and my diet is limited to rice chicken and boiled potatoes. I can't eat more because my stomach doesn't let me. I get hungry every 3 hours or so. I also have Hashimotos

 

[sunraiser]

Low thyroid function can cause low ferritin and iron deficiency in general. Peat spoke about it in a few of his articles. Eating nothing but dairy, without the recommended liver once weekly, could also lead to low iron status since some proteins in milk chelate iron. Ingesting free iron can be dangerous if there is liver dysfunction and as such not enough ferritin is produced to properly bind/carry the extra iron from the diet.
But, if his iron numbers improved then I guess the supplementary iron helped. Usually just eating more liver, other organ meats, or just lowering TSH can help recover ferritin and iron status back to normal.

I think iron has various mechanisms that can limit availability of uptake and it's important to have considerations like this.

B6 seems to have an impact on iron levels and I sometimes find eating lots of b12 rich (effective megadoses on a regular basis!) foods like liver and shellfish impacts my B6 levels in a way that isn't very easy to recover. This is only a perception and not something I've had blood tests for, perhaps it's related to homocysteine or another mechanism.

So I'm not sure I agree liver is specifically a good source of iron (because of indirect inhibition of some kind) in my experience, but I do agree that it's wise to have other considerations when it comes to iron status (but intake is, of course, important). If you're not seeing perceivable benefits after a couple of weeks of supplementation then it might be worth considering another angle.

 

[Douglas Ek]

Bear in mind my hemoglobin was always in 14 range, reason being I think smoking falsely increases hemoglobin. Which would also explain why I crave smoking.

I also added lot of dairy over last few months so that also reduced my iron. And no it wasn't copper deficiency ONLY cos i have been taking copper since my HTMA showed low copper and iron. I am starting iron supplementation again. I did the whole iron panel and everything pointed to low iron.

Reason iron went down so much i think is also partly due to the copper supplement i was taking had a lot of manganese and zinc in it and both deplete iron.

@dbh25 you said you had poor sleep with low iron. I have poor sleep too with low thyroid pretty much all my life. I can't sleep more than 4 hours at night and wake up with hunger. I wonder it's a cortisol problem as well since my weight is very low.

Did your sleep improve with iron supplementation?

A lot of things increase hemoglobin. I don’t believe hemoglobin is a good indicator of iron status at all. But I know a lot of doctor says patcience are OK just looking at hemoglobin. But as mentioned iron has a role in other enzyme functions and cellular respiration as an electron accepter so just looking at hemoglobin can’t tell the whole picture. I feel the optimal way would be checking ferritin, s-iron, saturation, thyroid status to see indications of poor T4 to T3 conversion and prolactin for dopamine dysfunction.

 

[Douglas Ek]

Low thyroid function can cause low ferritin and iron deficiency in general. Peat spoke about it in a few of his articles. Eating nothing but dairy, without the recommended liver once weekly, could also lead to low iron status since some proteins in milk chelate iron. Ingesting free iron can be dangerous if there is liver dysfunction and as such not enough ferritin is produced to properly bind/carry the extra iron from the diet.
But, if his iron numbers improved then I guess the supplementary iron helped. Usually just eating more liver, other organ meats, or just lowering TSH can help recover ferritin and iron status back to normal.

Thanks for chyming in!
The calcium from what I’ve understood is also quite efficient at blocking iron absorption.
And yes you see iron deficiency more in malnourished people and overload in obese people. Probably has like you mentioned with thyroid function to do but I believe deficiency of iron also worsens thyroid status so it’s a chicken and egg scenario. It becomes a bad circuit of worsening of symptoms. Think antioxidant status affect hepicidine and many other things to such as androgens, estrogens, smoking, drinking, obesity and malnourishment so this complicate the picture further.
So there’s never a one glove fit all.

 

[Douglas Ek]

I think iron has various mechanisms that can limit availability of uptake and it's important to have considerations like this.

B6 seems to have an impact on iron levels and I sometimes find eating lots of b12 rich (effective megadoses on a regular basis!) foods like liver and shellfish impacts my B6 levels in a way that isn't very easy to recover. This is only a perception and not something I've had blood tests for, perhaps it's related to homocysteine or another mechanism.

So I'm not sure I agree liver is specifically a good source of iron (because of indirect inhibition of some kind) in my experience, but I do agree that it's wise to have other considerations when it comes to iron status (but intake is, of course, important). If you're not seeing perceivable benefits after a couple of weeks of supplementation then it might be worth considering another angle.

I think a problem to day with some people getting iron deficiency is that they eat too ”healthy” like salads and greens propping their body full of antioxidants while also they are starving reducing their thyroid function which is necessary for strong bile production which in turn is necessary for absorption. Protein intake and fat intake (specially saturated fat) has a positive effect on iron absorption from diet. So if you’re malnourished and eat low mest, liver etc already you probably have a much bigger propensity to become deficient. That’s the reason why malnourished people tend to be low in iron and obese people tend to have high ferritin/overload.

 

[Douglas Ek]

If you can't sleep more than 4 hrs a night and your weight is very low this points to a very specific problem... you aren't eating enough calories.

The average joe these days is not good at eating the right amount of food. We have managed to lose touch of our hunger senses. Most people either under eat or over eat and there isn't a balance anymore.

Agree

 

[Douglas Ek]

Bear in mind my hemoglobin was always in 14 range, reason being I think smoking falsely increases hemoglobin. Which would also explain why I crave smoking.

I also added lot of dairy over last few months so that also reduced my iron. And no it wasn't copper deficiency ONLY cos i have been taking copper since my HTMA showed low copper and iron. I am starting iron supplementation again. I did the whole iron panel and everything pointed to low iron.

Reason iron went down so much i think is also partly due to the copper supplement i was taking had a lot of manganese and zinc in it and both deplete iron.

@dbh25 you said you had poor sleep with low iron. I have poor sleep too with low thyroid pretty much all my life. I can't sleep more than 4 hours at night and wake up with hunger. I wonder it's a cortisol problem as well since my weight is very low.

Did your sleep improve with iron supplementation?

Everything improved back to a completely normal life once I restored my iron and copper back to normal. Both these minerals are oxidants which means they accept electrons and without that process a lot of enzymes wont function properly. They’re involved in cellular respiration and are needed in certain amounts for your body to function at an optimal level. Its all about balance getting enough iron and copper from food but living healthy not smoking, drinking eating high PUFA and other stuff that further depleting antioxidants that help your body control the oxidizing effects. SOD and gluthathione are probably very important aswell to help your body maintain the iron copper homeostasis. SOD increases greatly from copper supplements. They say it’s because SOD needs copper but maybe it’s just a natural response to increased oxidation. Also liver health and retinol status is important for protecting your body from the dangers of overload since its the liver and retinol that synthesize ceruloplasmin and ferritin.

 

[schultz]

I think thyroid should be considered before assuming low iron levels.

This person apparently asked Ray about ferritin and he said that both low and high can be a result of poor thyroid function.

Serum ferritin as a marker of thyroid hormone action on peripheral tissues. - PubMed - NCBI
"Administration of 75 micrograms T3 daily for 1 week to 11 euthyroid subjects resulted in a 23-243% (mean +/- SD, 117 +/- 70%) increase in serum ferritin above basal values."

Even wikipedia says this...

"Low ferritin may also indicate hypothyroidism"

Cancer, infection and endotoxin can raise ferritin.

I'm sure most of us have heard Ray talk about "Anemia" and hypothyroidism. There is also his article on Iron Iron's Dangers

Ray references this article, which I find fascinating, and says this about it: "Recently, the iron content of food has been identified as the major life-shortening factor, rather than the calories."

So calorie restriction can extend life by reducing dietary iron. Calorie restriction also lowers PUFA and endotoxin.

I have not mentioned antioxidants, which is another piece of the puzzle I'm sure, and another thing to think about.

 

[Douglas Ek]

I think thyroid should be considered before assuming low iron levels.

This person apparently asked Ray about ferritin and he said that both low and high can be a result of poor thyroid function.

Serum ferritin as a marker of thyroid hormone action on peripheral tissues. - PubMed - NCBI
"Administration of 75 micrograms T3 daily for 1 week to 11 euthyroid subjects resulted in a 23-243% (mean +/- SD, 117 +/- 70%) increase in serum ferritin above basal values."

Even wikipedia says this...

"Low ferritin may also indicate hypothyroidism"

Cancer, infection and endotoxin can raise ferritin.

I'm sure most of us have heard Ray talk about "Anemia" and hypothyroidism. There is also his article on Iron Iron's Dangers

Ray references this article, which I find fascinating, and says this about it: "Recently, the iron content of food has been identified as the major life-shortening factor, rather than the calories."

So calorie restriction can extend life by reducing dietary iron. Calorie restriction also lowers PUFA and endotoxin.

I have not mentioned antioxidants, which is another piece of the puzzle I'm sure, and another thing to think about.

There’s a lot of studies showing that thyroid function is also related to adequate iron status. I can post probably 10 cases studies with thousands of people who had low ferritin and high TSH and symptoms of low thyroid function. In the studies they give the person iron for couple of months and on lab majority recovered and lowered their TSH through iron supplements alone. Yes thyroid dysfunction can cause low iron through malnourishment but iron has it’s role as a co-factor for thyroid status and metabolism. Ignoring the 100 of studies showing evidence of this is just crazy in my opinion. Ray says excess iron is bad. What the optimal levels mean is up for discussion and I personally think optimal iron status varies between people because of genetic factors such as absorption rate of dietary iron. A lot of people absorb way to much iron and a lot of people like myself cant keep my iron status at an OK levels without taking iron from time to time. The fact that a lot of people feel tremendously better after taking iron. And that these people tend to have elevated TSH and Prolactin and that both of them goes down naturally with only iron supplementation. If you have elevated prolactin and tsh and low iron status why try to lower tsh and prolactin other ways? Should one start thyroids meds and ergot drugs to keep them down? Or should one just correct a nutrient deficiency. A sample
Is @Dezertfox who had all these symptoms and results on blood work still everyone says peaty stuff like try drinking more milk and gelatin... lol. Then he took iron and did better. But because of the scare mongering of iron on this forum he stopped his iron status fell even more and symptoms became even worse. Like mentioned earlier I’ve gotten 20-30 private messages of people with the same elevated TSH and symptoms and they all become completely normal after taking iron supplements.

 

[nwo2012]

Wouldn't bother arguing with Irom Man tbh, he believes it is the number one nutrient.

 

[Douglas Ek]

Wouldn't bother arguing with Irom Man tbh, he believes it is the number one nutrient.

I dont believe it’s the number one nutrient. I dont believe categorizing essential nutrients into numbers are good way to think about health. But yeah vitamin D is number one lets just all overdose on it!!! Hahaha. I’m not ignoring the obvious that some people are low in iron. And I dont ignore the fact that it has functions for a lot of things like thyroid and dopamine that are very peaty. I believe all vitamins and minerals have biological roles and functions some has a bigger role than others. But im focusing on iron because promoting everyone to donate blood for health is just straight out bad. Its very individual. And I want to remove the dogma

 

[tankasnowgod]

I think thyroid should be considered before assuming low iron levels.

This person apparently asked Ray about ferritin and he said that both low and high can be a result of poor thyroid function.

Serum ferritin as a marker of thyroid hormone action on peripheral tissues. - PubMed - NCBI
"Administration of 75 micrograms T3 daily for 1 week to 11 euthyroid subjects resulted in a 23-243% (mean +/- SD, 117 +/- 70%) increase in serum ferritin above basal values."

Even wikipedia says this...

"Low ferritin may also indicate hypothyroidism"

Cancer, infection and endotoxin can raise ferritin.

I'm sure most of us have heard Ray talk about "Anemia" and hypothyroidism. There is also his article on Iron Iron's Dangers

Ray references this article, which I find fascinating, and says this about it: "Recently, the iron content of food has been identified as the major life-shortening factor, rather than the calories."

So calorie restriction can extend life by reducing dietary iron. Calorie restriction also lowers PUFA and endotoxin.

I have not mentioned antioxidants, which is another piece of the puzzle I'm sure, and another thing to think about.

For Antioxidant status, Anthony Colpo referenced a study that showed blood donation improves serum levels of antioxidants. It makes sense- getting rid of the major factor that uses up antioxidants would lead to a better overall antioxidant status. I'll see if I can find it later.

Francesco Facchini's book was titled "The Iron Factor of Aging: Why do Americans Age Faster?" and was all about iron's role in the aging process.

Rogue Health And Fitness did a great interview with Iron Researcher E.D. Weinberg- Eugene D. Weinberg on Iron Toxicity - Rogue Health and Fitness

Of note, Weinberg was 93 at the time of the interview, and his wife was 87. Both of their iron lowering strategies are discussed in the interview.

 

[Douglas Ek]

For Antioxidant status, Anthony Colpo referenced a study that showed blood donation improves serum levels of antioxidants. It makes sense- getting rid of the major factor that uses up antioxidants would lead to a better overall antioxidant status. I'll see if I can find it later.

Francesco Facchini's book was titled "The Iron Factor of Aging: Why do Americans Age Faster?" and was all about iron's role in the aging process.

Rogue Health And Fitness did a great interview with Iron Researcher E.D. Weinberg- Eugene D. Weinberg on Iron Toxicity - Rogue Health and Fitness

Of note, Weinberg was 93 at the time of the interview, and his wife was 87. Both of their iron lowering strategies are discussed in the interview.

Yes that makes complete sense. That’s why iron overload people probably have a compromised antioxidant system. Donating blood in combination with vitamin C, vitamin E, aspirin, zinc and other co-factors to boost endogenous antioxidants like SOD & gluthathione seems like the best protocol. I also believe mediteranian diet the extended life span there is due to higher consumption of olives. If you research hydroxy tyrosol its the most potent antioxidant known to date and it’s high in green olives. It’s excellent at protecting from iron oxidation and I’m sure it’s what makes olives so heart healthy. Black olives actually contains more iron than green olives and has a much lower hydroxy tyrosol content because of this. So yes antioxidant status is important considering iron status. Probably this reason why alcohol and ciggarettes increase iron status. It actually reduces antioxidants first. Obesity probably too and increased PUFA consumption. American diet is high in meat and iron, fortified iron cereals, and all the food is processed PUFA with no antioxidant status. Europe eat more homecooked food and antioxidants etc. thus iron overload and its related diseases like diabetes, cardio vascular disease and other auto immune diseases are much more prevalent in the US. I’m 100% with ray peat and everyone else here that its a fact and its a global problem. Im just saying that iron has functions beyond hemoglobin productin. Google iron and cellular respiration and you understand why. Oxidation (electron donating) is still a basic function of the body which is necessary and if you live a healthy life style and dont have genetic problems with hepcidin synthesis like hemochromatosis you probably dont have to worry as much. And some people might even genetically have an over production of hepcidin or other dysfunction handling iron. Thus putting them at risk for having too low iron resulting in too low electron donating cellular respiration.
Once again my point is theres not a one glove fits all and I’m just trying to highlight that in this community so that some people dont get hurt. Not everyone needs to donate blood and I just want people to do proper lab testing first and maybe rethink their situation. If they sre heavy drinkers, smoke, obese and eat an unhealthy diet specially high in PUFA then I can bet money you will have iron excess.
If you never drink, smoke, are malnourished and eat really clean and healthy low PUFA and exercise too much like some people do you probably have compromised thyroid resulting in lower bile production thus less iron absorb on top of that. You might even supplement with tons of antioxidant trying to be healthy but you actually feel like crap and you cant understand why? Yeah well in that case you might be iron deficient. I see this pattern a lot

 

[dbh25]

Bear in mind my hemoglobin was always in 14 range, reason being I think smoking falsely increases hemoglobin. Which would also explain why I crave smoking.
@dbh25 you said you had poor sleep with low iron. I have poor sleep too with low thyroid pretty much all my life. I can't sleep more than 4 hours at night and wake up with hunger. I wonder it's a cortisol problem as well since my weight is very low.
Did your sleep improve with iron supplementation?

My hemoglobin was always high enough to donate blood, even when an iron panel would show low iron.
I only took this product for 3 months, I would add it to orange juice-
Floravital Liquid Iron - Floradix

It took about 2 months before I slept through the night. After a ferritin low of 15, it went up to the 45-55 range and stayed there. After 1.5 years, ferritin finally climbed to the mid 70s. I plan to donate blood once a year, at the end of the year. I'd like to stay in the 50-100 range.

 

[Dezertfox]

My hemoglobin was always high enough to donate blood, even when an iron panel would show low iron.
I only took this product for 3 months, I would add it to orange juice-
Floravital Liquid Iron - Floradix

It took about 2 months before I slept through the night. After a ferritin low of 15, it went up to the 45-55 range and stayed there. After 1.5 years, ferritin finally climbed to the mid 70s. I plan to donate blood once a year, at the end of the year. I'd like to stay in the 50-100 range.

What about your sleep though? Did it improve with iron supplementation?

 

[dbh25]

What about your sleep though? Did it improve with iron supplementation?

2 months into supplementing for 3 months is when sleep improved.

 

[Dezertfox]

2 months into supplementing for 3 months is when sleep improved.

Thanks were you waking up in the middle of the night as well?

Did you regrow your lost hair? I have lost so much over the last year

 

[nwo2012]

I dont believe it’s the number one nutrient. I dont believe categorizing essential nutrients into numbers are good way to think about health. But yeah vitamin D is number one lets just all overdose on it!!! Hahaha. I’m not ignoring the obvious that some people are low in iron. And I dont ignore the fact that it has functions for a lot of things like thyroid and dopamine that are very peaty. I believe all vitamins and minerals have biological roles and functions some has a bigger role than others. But im focusing on iron because promoting everyone to donate blood for health is just straight out bad. Its very individual. And I want to remove the dogma

Do you have an iron complex, I never said you were Iron Man?!
The thing is sometimes when you look at a certain blood marker and studies, with the wrong asumption, the wrong conclusion can be drawn. Much like cholesterol. It.acts like a bandaid to inflammed and hardened arteries. So it is seen in arterial plaques and mainstream misconception then blames it for the plaques. Much like if you didnt know what an ambulance was and then saw car accidents with more fatalities had more ambulances in attendance you then wrongly conclude ambulances cause fatalities, i.e the more ambulances on the scene appear to lead to more fatalities.
So with iron you neef to be careful. E.g the studies showing harm many years after ID can be interpreted many ways if you are not already assuming iron is a nutrient. Perhaps and quite likely, the toxic iron infusions given regularly for ID cause the harm years later. Or since ID commonly occurs in hypothyroidism it is in fact the poor thyroid status leading to bad health not the iron level.

RP says a similar thing about TSH. Just because it happens to be high in hypothyroidism does not mean it is the cause of it. Also lowering TSH, which is a major stress hormone improves health regardless of thyroid status. E.g.T4 only therapy suppresses TSH well in most patients Ive come across yet the majority still have all their symptoms of hypothyroidism probably because their liver cant convert it to T3.

Taking a supplement with several essential nutrients and iron leading to percieved improved wellbeing can not be only attributed to the iron content. People with extremely poor thyroid status also often sleep right through the night so length of sleep isnt always a marker of improved health.

My two cents.

 

[Douglas Ek]

Do you have an iron complex, I never said you were Iron Man?!
The thing is sometimes when you look at a certain blood marker and studies the wrong asumption can draw the wrong conclusion. Much like cholesterol. It.acts like a bandaid to inflammed and hardened arteries. So it is seen in arterial plaques and mainstream misconception then blames it for the plaques. Much like if you didnt know what an ambulance was and then saw car accidents with more fatalities had more ambulances in attendance you then wrongly conclude ambulances cause fatalities, i.e the more ambilanced on the scene appear to lead to more fatalities.
So with iron you neef to be careful. E.g the studies showing harm many years after ID can be interpreted many ways if you are not already assuming iron is a nutrient. Perhaps and quite likely, the toxic iron infusions given regularly for ID cause the harm years later. Or since ID commonly occurs in hypothyroidism it is in fact the poor thyroid status leading to bad health not the iron level.

RP says a similar thing about TSH. Just because it happens to be high in hypothyroidism does not mean it is the cause of it. Also lowering TSH, which is a major stress hormone improves health regardless of thyroid status. E.g.T4 only therapy suppresses TSH well in most patients Ive come across yet the majority still have all their symptoms of hypothyroidism probably because their liver cant convert it to T3.

Taking a supplement with several essential nutrientd and iron leading to percieved perceived improved wellbeing can not be only attributed to the iron content.

My two cents.

You just said it yourself. Just because iron is present when bad things are happening doesnt mean it’s the irons fault. Might be that you’re body doesnt have the tools to handle iron like the proper antioxidants. Because you eat a western with excess fortified iron, low in antioxidant and high in PUFA depleting antioxidants. Thus leading to damage from iron. If you dont eat and live that type of crap life then why would you correct the issue donating all your blood to rid yourself from iron when iron is not the root cause it’s the crap diet, obesity, smoking, drinking that is the problem resulting in a compromised antioxidant defense system. And when you say taking supplement with several nutrients doesnt attribute to iron what do you even mean? You’re refering to me? I’ve taken iron alone because I was deficient and it did increase T3 for me it lowered TSH and prolactin. There where no other supplements involved in that recovery. I have other people here on the forum that can testify the same happens for them. They get improved well being and better blood works by supplementing iron alone. And yes they have lower than average ferritin to being with. Still they are probably wrong I guess?
I guess if you’re right I’m gonna die years later. Along with everyone who ever had high ferritin once in the past.