Intrusive / Unwanted Thoughts Due To Low GABA Signalling

haidut

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Peat has mentioned GABA quite a few times in his articles and its role as the chief inhibitory signal in the body, protecting both brain cells and peripheral tissues/organs from excitotoxicity caused by PUFA, glutamate, estrogen, stress, etc. But the role of GABA is especially prominent in the brain, where most of GABA is actually synthesized. As such, it is not surprising that dysregulations in GABA signalling have been implicated in virtually all mental health issues. One common symptom of most mental disorders (anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), depression, schizophrenia, mania, etc) is the appearance and persistence of unwanted and often quite obtrusive / disturbing thoughts in the mind of the sufferer. Psychiatry often treats these symptoms as just a co-morbidity of the main disorder and claims they have no organic cause.
However, as Peat has mentioned a few times, this new study below states otherwise. It found that these thoughts are due to reduced signalling (or levels) of GABA in the brain, and that increasing GABA levels can help bring these thoughts under control. GABA levels can easily be manipulated though diet and supplementation and most of the supplements that Peat has written about (steroids, vitamins, macronutrients, etc) are either GABA agonists or increase GABA levels directly. Progesterone, niacinamide, taurine, SFA, aspirin, thyroid, etc all have a direct role in increasing pro-GABA tone and opposing excessive excitation.

Hippocampal GABA enables inhibitory control over unwanted thoughts | Nature Communications
Scientists find key to unwanted thoughts

"...Researchers found a particular chemical, or neurotransmitter, known as Gaba, held the key. GABA is the brain's main "inhibitory" neurotransmitter. That means, when it's released by one nerve cell it suppresses the activities of other cells to which it is connected. They found people who had the highest concentrations of Gaba in their brain's hippocampus (or memory hub) were best at blocking unwanted thoughts or memories. "What's exciting about this is that now we're getting very specific," said Prof Anderson. "Before, we could only say 'this part of the brain acts on that part', but now we can say which neurotransmitters are likely to be important." The discovery might shed light on a number of conditions, from schizophrenia to PTSD, in which sufferers have a pathological inability to control thoughts - such as excessive worrying or rumination."
 

dookie

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@haidut

Can we prioritize the things supposed to increase GABA a bit? Which would be the most important?

I found coffee also lowers intrusive thoughts, making one able to focus on what they want to focus on.
 

haidut

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@haidut

Can we prioritize the things supposed to increase GABA a bit? Which would be the most important?

I found coffee also lowers intrusive thoughts, making one able to focus on what they want to focus on.

There are a ton of approaches/chemicals that affect GABA. I don't think they can be prioritized generically and but the ones I mentioned would be common ones Peat writes about and available to most people.
 

haidut

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@haidut What are your thoughts on the theory that almonds increase levels of GABA?

Many things can increase GABA. Just saying almonds do does not say much as we need to know what in almonds does it. I doubt it is the unsaturated fat in them as it is well-known that PUFA is excitotoxic.
 

sladerunner69

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Peat has mentioned GABA quite a few times in his articles and its role as the chief inhibitory signal in the body, protecting both brain cells and peripheral tissues/organs from excitotoxicity caused by PUFA, glutamate, estrogen, stress, etc. But the role of GABA is especially prominent in the brain, where most of GABA is actually synthesized. As such, it is not surprising that dysregulations in GABA signalling have been implicated in virtually all mental health issues. One common symptom of most mental disorders (anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), depression, schizophrenia, mania, etc) is the appearance and persistence of unwanted and often quite obtrusive / disturbing thoughts in the mind of the sufferer. Psychiatry often treats these symptoms as just a co-morbidity of the main disorder and claims they have no organic cause.
However, as Peat has mentioned a few times, this new study below states otherwise. It found that these thoughts are due to reduced signalling (or levels) of GABA in the brain, and that increasing GABA levels can help bring these thoughts under control. GABA levels can easily be manipulated though diet and supplementation and most of the supplements that Peat has written about (steroids, vitamins, macronutrients, etc) are either GABA agonists or increase GABA levels directly. Progesterone, niacinamide, taurine, SFA, aspirin, thyroid, etc all have a direct role in increasing pro-GABA tone and opposing excessive excitation.

Hippocampal GABA enables inhibitory control over unwanted thoughts | Nature Communications
Scientists find key to unwanted thoughts

"...Researchers found a particular chemical, or neurotransmitter, known as Gaba, held the key. GABA is the brain's main "inhibitory" neurotransmitter. That means, when it's released by one nerve cell it suppresses the activities of other cells to which it is connected. They found people who had the highest concentrations of Gaba in their brain's hippocampus (or memory hub) were best at blocking unwanted thoughts or memories. "What's exciting about this is that now we're getting very specific," said Prof Anderson. "Before, we could only say 'this part of the brain acts on that part', but now we can say which neurotransmitters are likely to be important." The discovery might shed light on a number of conditions, from schizophrenia to PTSD, in which sufferers have a pathological inability to control thoughts - such as excessive worrying or rumination."


Isn't it true that caffiene is a GABA antagonists? We discussed this a bit on the PFS threads. I am debating whether coffee is appropriate to use. Clearly there are issues with Low Gaba implicated. @Frankdee20 claimed that caffiene upregulated GABA receptors through minor antagonism... whether such a mechanism as antagonism>upregulatio exists is still unclear to me..
 

paracelsus

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Isn't it true that caffiene is a GABA antagonists? We discussed this a bit on the PFS threads. I am debating whether coffee is appropriate to use. Clearly there are issues with Low Gaba implicated. @Frankdee20 claimed that caffiene upregulated GABA receptors through minor antagonism... whether such a mechanism as antagonism>upregulatio exists is still unclear to me..

I've been having a similar debate. Coffee every day for a couple years, once I stopped I had less trouble with anxiety/adrenalin symptoms.

I've been recovering from a surgery where I had some fairly severe anxiety / racing thoughts / serotonin excess problems (shivering, listless, bleak outlook). Coffee, B vitamins and high carb generally brought me back from the worst of it but after experimenting with moderate doses of niacinamide + taurine I've made some decent / noticeable progress. I think I read that combination was beneficial for GABA signaling..?
 

Frankdee20

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Isn't it true that caffiene is a GABA antagonists? We discussed this a bit on the PFS threads. I am debating whether coffee is appropriate to use. Clearly there are issues with Low Gaba implicated. @Frankdee20 claimed that caffiene upregulated GABA receptors through minor antagonism... whether such a mechanism as antagonism>upregulatio exists is still unclear to me..

Magnolia Bark (the real thing) is very pro GABA, as is Gotu Kola. Coffee seems to have indirect effects on neurotransmitters via its Adenosine blockade.
 

sladerunner69

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Magnolia Bark (the real thing) is very pro GABA, as is Gotu Kola. Coffee seems to have indirect effects on neurotransmitters via its Adenosine blockade.

Okay thanks for the head's up. Although honestly, I prefer not to dabble in herbs anymore. Too many past experiences with unwanted side effects and changes that can be persistent. When I took saw palmetto I had lower DHT for months. When I took troubles terrestris, I had adrenaline dumps and panic attacks for a year. When I tried cascara, I had constipation for days. etc etc
 

Frankdee20

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Okay thanks for the head's up. Although honestly, I prefer not to dabble in herbs anymore. Too many past experiences with unwanted side effects and changes that can be persistent. When I took saw palmetto I had lower DHT for months. When I took troubles terrestris, I had adrenaline dumps and panic attacks for a year. When I tried cascara, I had constipation for days. etc etc

Yeah, I rarely rely on herbs anymore for brain modifying effects. For me, the nervines yielded temporary results, and it’s annoying to brew teas all day. Now, I know in your case, saw palmetto is no joke. It has potent 5 Alpha reductase inhibitor propensity. Some people report finesteride like effects, even after stopping. I’ve never used that or tribulus, so I cannot say. To each their own I guess.
 

dookie

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@sladerunner69

Those are really long-term effects from herbs.. I experienced some similar things from herbs too. Found anything that can speed recovery from the herbal side-effects?
 

sladerunner69

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@sladerunner69

Those are really long-term effects from herbs.. I experienced some similar things from herbs too. Found anything that can speed recovery from the herbal side-effects?

Not really. When I was dealing with the intense anxiety, I couldn't take thyroid or drink coffee. Even drinking orange juice or having sugar would sometimes send me flying. I remember sometimes I ahd to just eat small meals of squash or potatoes with a little beef to feel calm. Gradually I tolerated sugar and coffee better and better though, but it took about a year to adjust back, I'm not sure why. If you experiencing some strange side effects I could offer some supplements or advice for combatting that particular side effect but I'm not usre about recovery, I guess staying away from alcohol is important.
 

dookie

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Not really. When I was dealing with the intense anxiety, I couldn't take thyroid or drink coffee. Even drinking orange juice or having sugar would sometimes send me flying. I remember sometimes I ahd to just eat small meals of squash or potatoes with a little beef to feel calm. Gradually I tolerated sugar and coffee better and better though, but it took about a year to adjust back, I'm not sure why. If you experiencing some strange side effects I could offer some supplements or advice for combatting that particular side effect but I'm not usre about recovery, I guess staying away from alcohol is important.

Well... I got really bad estrogenic symptoms from some herbs.. Like gyno, breasts and nipples being larger and moving towards the sides on the torso, restlessness, wider hips, teeth shifting around in my mouth, can't stop talking thinking or doing, feeling really jumpy emotionally and weak. Any supplement which can help this?
 

sladerunner69

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Well... I got really bad estrogenic symptoms from some herbs.. Like gyno, breasts and nipples being larger and moving towards the sides on the torso, restlessness, wider hips, teeth shifting around in my mouth, can't stop talking thinking or doing, feeling really jumpy emotionally and weak. Any supplement which can help this?

Well gosh, yeah. There's a wide range of supplements you can take. Almost everyone on this forum is trying to lower estrogen or keep it under control. that is a central tennet of the Peat paradigm. Low estrogen, low cortisol, low stress hormones.

Have you tried the fundamental coffee and aspirin combo? Or just aspirin? Also try to clean out your gut, endotoxin in the intestine is a major source of estrogen release that is very often overlooked. A peaty corrot salad (1 large shredded carrot mixed with refined coconut oil and white vinegar) before bed goes a very long way in my experience. Also niacinimide 500mg 1-3 times a day can really help with gut bacteria. Don't eat any starches for a while, just juice, sugar and easy to digest fruits, and milk/cheese a bit of meat. After about a month I would expect to a see a substantial change in your gyno symptoms. You can also try more intense anti estrogen therapy like androsterone or dht.
 

Greg says

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This is exactly how my brain dysfunctions. GABA, and glutamate issues. For me the only thing that completely stops this PTSD style of thinking is tianeptine.
 

Lilac

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One common symptom of most mental disorders (anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), depression, schizophrenia, mania, etc) is the appearance and persistence of unwanted and often quite obtrusive / disturbing thoughts in the mind of the sufferer. Psychiatry often treats these symptoms as just a co-morbidity of the main disorder and claims they have no organic cause.

This reminds me of my aged mother's bout of migraine with elaborate hallucinations a few years ago. (She was aware that they were hallucinations.) The neurologist, neurologist/psychiatrist, and many other doctors tested for things they could label--Parkinson's, brain tumor, dementia--and offered zero, zero, ideas for diet or supplements to alleviate symptoms. Dr. Peat's recommendation of a big dose of progesterone was the best advice we could have gotten, I believe. Since then, we have used progesterone, along with light exposure, sugar, and various supplements and the migraines have been kept at bay. It's good to have this added information about GABA when thinking about her vulnerability.
 

Soren

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Thanks for this Haidut.

This would very much explain one of the aspects of Parkinson's disease that I have observed. A sort of constant anxiety allowing negative thoughts to creep into the mind at all times.
 
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bdawg

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This is exactly how my brain dysfunctions. GABA, and glutamate issues. For me the only thing that completely stops this PTSD style of thinking is tianeptine.

Any tolerance issues? also what dosage

I'm planning to phase out niacinamide due to homocysteine risks was thinking of substituting with tianeptine
 
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