Intro, And Looking For Advice

wesheilman

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Jul 24, 2014
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Hi all, have been following the forum for a year or so, listening to Danny and Haidut, and have gone through Josh Rubin's nutritional course. I'd like to give some background as introduction, and ask for some advice about my current situation, with the hope of improving what has been mediocre success.

My hypothyroid symptoms go back to childhood, got worse in college, but only became severely troublesome right around when I turned 30 (now 34). Fatigue became the worst symptom, and tension headaches; also low blood counts, unusual bone marrow composition, insomnia, occasional arthritis, slow healing, mood issues, lack of appetite, underweight (6'2" 155lbs), diagnosed as hypochondriac, etc. TSH was 1.4, which was considered not hypothyroid by the doctors. Temp/pulse about 97.2/60 on average.

A friend recommended Ray Peat, and I began reading and trying out diet changes. It went well at first, but I had difficulty for the next two years sustaining a Peat diet. I finally went through Josh Rubin's nutrition course a year ago, which helped raise temp/pulse to low 98's/70, enough to get back on my feet. I have been working on improving my diet since then, reducing stress as much as possible (have considered how personality type bears on stress and health [INTP, for those who know Myers-Briggs]; job and career; sleep; relationships; spiritual issues; exercise; light; living situation; season; etc.,). Temp/pulse tends to be low-mid 98/68-72, sometimes higher (when environmental temp is higher?). Waking temp has gone from 97.2 to about 97.7. Have gained 5 lbs. (previously impossible).

I eat liver about once per week, or liver pate more often; oysters 3 or 4x per week; eggs daily; OJ daily; milk and cheese daily. I eat about 5x per day, about 3 hours apart, roughly 600 cal per meal. Because of frequency of meals, work schedule, and a general dislike of cooking, I eat about 2 meals per day of protein bars and milk (ZonePerfect bars); my other meals are more nutritious. Coffee seems to make things worse. Tried Haidut's phosphatidylcoline, but it did not appear to do anything. Tried PanSterone, but no effect. Aspirin seems to do nothing. EstroBan seems to do nothing. Red and white light seems to raise temps a little, but only if done for a short time; but it may just be because of the heat from the lights.

I am happy to have my health raised from what it was the last few years, but would be disappointed if I could not raise it still more. My job is a source of major stress, but I am changing that. Insomnia has persisted to some extent, and an inability to sleep normal hours (I work second shift, sleep ~5am-1pm). I would like temp and pulse to be 99/80 or so; or as high as I can safely get it. Would like to gain weight.

Would appreciate any thoughts, what I might do better, what I am doing well.
Glad for this forum, look forward to your all's input.
Wesley
 

FD8

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Hi Wesley,

You don't mention fruit juice, do you drink OJ?
Do you take thyroid ?

Ice cream just before bed works really well for weight gain and insomnia.
 

Pointless

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Apr 13, 2016
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You've come a long way if you've raised your temps. You have a good start here on a new leg by listing all your health complaints. Track any progress in any issue (fatigue, insomnia, etc.) in a personal log.

Here are some areas that could be improved upon that you didn't mention:

Serotonin (this seems to be a tge most immediate obstacle)
Prolactin
Co2
Estrogen
Cortisol and adrenaline
Liver health
Endotoxin

Consider slow breathing, cyproheptadine, magnesium, taurine, gelatin, and energin. These are all safe and conservative options that can make a big difference.

As for diet, you can make enough food for a few days. That can make things easier.
 
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wesheilman

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Jul 24, 2014
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I drink quite a bit of OJ. I don't take thyroid. I do take taurine (with EstroBan; Haidut once posted that taurine converts fat-solubility into water-solubility, off-setting the need for ~35g of fat to absorb Vit E, I think). I take gelatin any time I eat meat (1 Tbs or so; Ray Peat said it balances the amino acid profile of meat). I used to do ice cream and coffee before bed, but it never raised my temps and didn't seem to help me sleep better.

I do track the insomnia, and I think I know how to control the issue; unfortunately, being able to practically implement what I know is not always easy or possible. Working on that...

Probably labs are in order...I've only ever gotten one, to measure thyroid and some other things, and that was 2 or 3 years ago. Cyproheptadine seems like a possibility, and energin.
 

Simonsays

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Feb 2, 2016
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Do you suffer muscle twitches?

Ive recently found magnesium spray has really helped with my insomnia and i am waking up refreshed. Its tentative at moment, but im really impressed. Maybe increase salt intake . Some take P5P as well to aid magnesium absorption, but careful on dosage. Shift work can play havoc with circadian rhythm, so your cortisol levels maybe out of whack
 
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wesheilman

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Jul 24, 2014
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No muscle twitches. Yes, circadian rhythm is a problem, and with insomnia comes intermittent sleep patters; lack of sleeping, sleeping at odd times, waking up at varying times somewhat. I am changing my work situation in a couple weeks, and should be able to control this. I did so last year, with good results.

I have used some supplements as mentioned above, and have avoided a lot, not having any good results with supplements. Even coffee seems to drop metabolism. Any ideas why? Or why PC, PanSterone, and EstroBan would be ineffective?
 

jaguar43

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Could you give an example of what your meals look like ?
 
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wesheilman

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Jul 24, 2014
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Could you give an example of what your meals look like ?
3 eggs, OJ, cheese stick, honey
oysters, OJ, cheese stick, watermelon, milk w/ honey and collagen
2 protein bars, 2c milk (I eat this once or twice per day, usually at work, because its easy)
hamburger (meat only), 1c milk w/ honey and collagen, soda
liver, cottage cheese, potatoes, fruit, soda
 

jaguar43

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3 eggs, OJ, cheese stick, honey
oysters, OJ, cheese stick, watermelon, milk w/ honey and collagen
2 protein bars, 2c milk (I eat this once or twice per day, usually at work, because its easy)
hamburger (meat only), 1c milk w/ honey and collagen, soda
liver, cottage cheese, potatoes, fruit, soda

The protein bars usually contain whey protein and other ingredients that Ray Peat doesn't recommend. If they are suppose to be your lunch then I would recommend to try eating a better lunch. Other than that it looks ok.

You said had hypothyroid symptoms sine you were a kid. The inability to gain weight is a classic sign of hypothyroid according to Ray Peat. I will say Josh Rubin doesn't advise people to take thyroid unless it's prescribe by a doctor. I don't think thats an accurate representation of Ray Peat's work. In his book Generative Energy he said that researchers found that 40 percent of the population could benefit from using a thyroid supplement. Today it's most likely higher. So using thyroid is something I advise you to look into.
 
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wesheilman

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Jul 24, 2014
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Yes, inability to gain weight since childhood, small appetite, constant sugar cravings, insomnia beginning at about 12, constant joint injuries in sports after about 16. I was on thyroid 2 or 3 years ago, but my diet was terrible, and I have been hesitant to get back on it. I wanted to try other pro-metabolic substances (like caffeine, PC, PanSterone, etc.), but the lack of effect, or even problems associated with caffeine, have made me stay away from thyroid. I will re-consider it.

One concern I have is whether I am getting enough of the fat-soluble vitamins. Not sure if liver weekly and daily EstroBan is sufficient; I used to take up to 100,000 units Vit A, 20,000 units Vit D, some K2, plus the Vit E that was in MitoLipin (which is high), and got at best only a little result. Any suggestions?
 

Pointless

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Thyroid supplementation is full of pitfalls. Not only does the dose have to be tailored to you depending on your response to it, but you have to make sure that you have a lot of prerequisites lined up to avoid adverse effects, like cholesterol, caloric intake, stress hormones.

Weight gain, small appetite, and insomnia can all be solved with Cyproheptadine or some other serotonin blocker (I can't think of a better, safer one). Sugar cravings can be solved with... sugar lol. Pregnenolone and DHEA are what help me with joint pains that I get from vitamin A supplementation.
 
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wesheilman

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Jul 24, 2014
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I was unclear--the things I mentioned in the last post were hypothyroid symptoms in childhood, not current (though still some insomnia and difficulty gaining weight). I will look into cyproheptadine.

What is sufficient caloric intake to support thyroid supplementation? I get about 3000 cal/day (600 cal meals 5x/day). What should one's cholesterol level be? As for stress hormones, doesn't thyroid help control those?
 

keith

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Jan 7, 2016
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I might try more salt like @Simonsays mentioned. Salt tends to be warming even if magnesium isn't an issue. I might also try increasing your calories. 3000 calories sounds really low for a 6'2" man trying to gain weight. Ice cream before bed (skip the coffee if that isn't working for you) or any other time of day will give you calories. Carbs are probably better than fats, but adding yummy food makes increasing calories easier. Starch might be an easier way to add calories than sugar, maybe add more potatoes or some white rice, which is pretty easy to make.

One quick, easy thing that I do is make smoothies with lots of sugar and frozen fruit and oj and greek yogurt (I have no problem gaining weight, so maybe you would substitute ice cream). Its an easy, calorie dense, healthy (IMO) drink. I make it right in the cup with a stick blender, so no real mess to clean either.

Anyway, long story short, you may want to try more salt and lots more calories.
 
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wesheilman

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Will try salt and ice cream around bed. Smoothies are a good idea.

As for adding calories, the reason I have not increased them to more than 3000 is because I have found that a macronutrient ratio of roughly 50/25/25 % cal from carbs/protein/fat to be ideal, which leads to meals of about 600 calories every 3 hours. That is, I can eat about 20-40g protein per meal (depending on the source/quality), and I could usually eat more carbs and fat than I do, but if it goes beyond the ratio, I find that it does not bring my temp/pulse up as much. I also feel full around the 600 cal mark. So, not sure how to increase calories and maintain the ratio that seems to work for temp/pulse.

Any suggestions? Anyone else have experience monitoring macronutrient ratios?
 

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