Interesting take on Oleic Acid. Dr. Peat mentioned. What do you think?

[jay123]

From the beginning of the post below.​

OLEIC ACID, HYPERPHOSPHATEMIA, AND DISORDERS OF CELLULAR RESPIRATION​

I was thirty-two years old and just beginning to really struggle with my health when I first heard that coconut oil was healthy. I didn’t know anything about thyroid, the endocrine system, or cellular respiration, and had never yet heard of Ray Peat, but the advice about coconut oil was convincing enough that I decided to try it.

I bought a jar and scooped out a modest spoonful and swallowed it, chasing it with some milk. I had recently read a book about liver health and another from a vegetarian celebrity nutritionist, and expected near-miraculous benefits from coconut oil. But much to my horror, in less than ten minutes I was in the bathroom vomiting and evacuating my bowels like I had caught ebola, and was confined to the bathroom for three hours before the episode abated and I finally stopped feeling like I was going to die.........

Oleic Acid, Hyperphosphatemia, and Disorders of Cellular Respiration — Fuck Portion Control

I was thirty-two years old and just beginning to really struggle with my health when I first heard that coconut oil was healthy. I didn’t know anything about thyroid, the endocrine system, or cellular respiration, and had never yet heard of Ray Peat, but the advice about coconut oil was convincing e

www.fuckportioncontrol.com

 

[dfspcc20]

I get his newsletters as well. I was kind of underwhelmed with this one. Oleic acid is important, but didn't really get much else out of it. Unless someone is on the strictest of Ray Peat-inspired diets, it seems difficult to *not* get a decent amount of it via diet.
But interesting that this does coincide with Danny Roddy & Peat recently mentioning switching to olive oil instead of coconut for their carrot salad.

 

[jay123]

I get his newsletters as well. I was kind of underwhelmed with this one. Oleic acid is important, but didn't really get much else out of it. Unless someone is on the strictest of Ray Peat-inspired diets, it seems difficult to *not* get a decent amount of it via diet.
But interesting that this does coincide with Danny Roddy & Peat recently mentioning switching to olive oil instead of coconut for their carrot salad.

I thought the same thing about the carrot salad too. He does not mention an amount but its obvious that olive oil and macadamia nut oil would have the highest concentrations of oleic acid but macadamia nut oil has lower PUFA than olive oil. And both are high in MUFA. If I recall, saturated fat is coverted into MUFA when needed too. He seemed to be hesitant to write it but his comparison of it to acetazolamide is interesting.

 

[amd]

RP also talked about the allergenic aspects of the coconut seed oil versus the olive fruit oil (high in antioxidants).

And not all olive oil is the same, some are higher in PUFA content.

 

[jay123]

RP also talked about the allergenic aspects of the coconut seed oil versus the olive fruit oil (high in antioxidants).

And not all olive oil is the same, some are higher in PUFA content.

I would imagine he is talking about cold pressed extra virgin olive oil. Is that correct?

 

[amd]

"Extra-virgin olive oil is made from cold pressed olives. "First-pressed" means the olives used in the process were crushed and pressed only once, as soon after harvest as possible. This first extraction product is the purest and highest quality."

"No heat is used – in fact, cold water is added to maintain a cool temperature throughout. Eliminating heat from the process keeps the most important nutrients and beneficial properties intact, as well as ensuring the highest possible flavor profile."

 

[Amazoniac]

I.. wanna rock and roll all night and party every day.

The cure for hyperphosphatemia is out.

Phosphate is a well-known intracellular buffer, but his discovery is that the condition is "essentially caused by oleic acid deficiency".

It is claimed to be a measure to make up for the shrinking of the hydrocraponate buffer system. Once oleic acid is repleted, crapon dioxide production will normalize, the hydrocraponate system will expand and phosphate is no longer necessary.

Phosphate making up for hydrocraponate has to be based on the extracellular compartment because it wouldn't make sense to release it from bone or retain in serum, risking calcifying tissues, if it was the intracellular compartment in need for it.

The concentration of phosphate in serum is fairly low, so much so that it's deemed insignificant and dismissed. Consider the extremes: a severe case of hyperphosphatemia and one with hypohydrocraponatemia, which should narrow the differences between them, and you'll realize that hydrocraponate remains in great excess. If this system fails, you still have the proteins that work as buffers. If this also fails, there are bone reserves.

Cases like this usually involve burdened kidneys, the body relying on phosphate would only tax them further, the expected response would be to relieve them by relying more on the fast-acting lungs.

- Hyperphosphatemia, a Cause of High Anion Gap Metabolic Acidosis: Report of a Case and Review of the Literature

"Phosphorus excretion helps with the disposal of the acid, although, unlike ammonia secretion that can increase several folds with acidosis, phosphorus excretion rate does not change much and therefore its contribution to acid/base homeostasis is limited. Dialysis patients commonly have hyperphosphatemia, but they can’t use phosphorus to excrete hydrogen ions."​

I wonder how he explains the improvement (rather than deterioration) in this state after controlling the excess phosphate directly.

The guy benefits from (likely) olive oil, reduces it to oleic acid, comes across a publication that found that free oleic acid somehow improves the activity of cytochrome c oxidase, assumes that it can be replicated in the body right away*, associates metabolic decline and impaired cellular respiration with hyperphosphatemia and ties it all together. Oleic acid deficiency is then the cause of hyperphosphatemia. What a joke.

*Fatty acids may be structural, taking a while to show up in membranes, are eventually released and we don't know if this scenario translates into ATP synthesis (using up phosphate) rather than protod leakage.​

Ironically, this is the same person that talks people out of creatine, which puts phosphate to good use in cells and is involved in recycling it.

The reason why these issues aren't taken into account is because he's in a moderated bubble and hasn't worked out a 'Cure for grandiosity' yet.

"I debated posting about this on my blog and worried about sharing it in my book seeing as I am not a professional, accredited researcher with access to circles of scientific progress, and this discovery will easily be stolen by unscrupulous actors and the credit taken by others without your help. Besides integrating this knowledge into your own life, please actively distribute and discuss this discovery onto blogs, forums, and other online venues where you participate in order to both bring awareness of this newly discovered, fundamental aspect of human biology which may help many countless people as well as leave a digital “paper trail” of my work."​

​

"More confirmation of my discovery can be found in countless studies, such as this which shows an inverse relationship between dietary oleic acid and periodontal disease."​

Quite surprising from someone that distorts the ideas of many people (Stephanie Seneff, Stasha Gominak, Mark Sircus, Jorge Dincó, Orthomoleculars, and various others) without disclosing the origin and thinks that it goes unnoticed.

This is why I lump Sathan with Garrett and Morley, they belong together.

 

[Amazoniac]

Cytochrome oxidase aside, I also wonder if he at least tried high-oleic sunflower, safflower, or even avocado oil (some sources claim that the composition is similar to olive), getting a comparable or greater energy boost, in attempt to rule out other factors. Something as simple as improved bile flow can be responsible for the effect (and olive oil is the choice for liver flushes).


Coconut oil doesn't have the most immediate bile-stimulating fatty acid profile, quite the opposite. A 'modest spoonful' makes it questionable, sometimes introduction of a new food can be disturbing enough to cause such revolting reactions, it's common among travelers. Stimulation can be from the compounds that are removed in refining. Might not be a coincidence that Sate reports feeling 'nauseated' with the unrefined version.

- Virgin coconut oil improves hepatic lipid metabolism in rats–compared with copra oil, olive oil and sunflower oil

Changes like these are not instantaneous, whereas the stimulating effect from the refinable fraction can be.


This is bizarre logic:

"Most at risk for chronic oral disease are monogamous couples (especially heterosexual) because they never have occasion to suspect a sexually transmitted disease and thus never get treated and so suffer under the influence of these pathogens for decades."​

A minimized exposure is worse than maximized with treatment. As if the manifestation wasn't a warning sign of gravity that would prompt anyone to seek help; or that treatments were always appropriate and successful in eradicating pathogens to a reset. It's like saying that people who work with known carcinogens have it easier because as soon as the problem manifests they will seek treatment and avoid the disease.

Exalt prowess in solving personal issues, creating context to add unnecessary details about sexual life and to contrast topics based on sexual orientation are signatures. There's no need to wrap oneself in a Cusco flag and go around trying to stir up discomfort and scandalize for later victimization, serving to reinforce ideologies.

 

[rei]

I find the theory quite suspect, because he admits that in metabolic disease or heart failure the body endogenously raises oleic acid levels by synthesising more of it.

Why would it not do this all the time since it obviously is capable, and if it is essential for good health?

 

[Riesensackteil]

Butter is kind of high in Oleic Acid as well. Beef tallow too a bit

 

[jay123]

I was curious about this so I have done a little n=1 experiment. I know is only since Monday and today is Friday so I will have to stick with this longer. I do not have any blood work but a little about my background. I am a 49 year old male, healthy, 5 foot 10 inches and consistently weigh 170 to 173, lean and muscular. I do light exercise, push ups, and use bands. I average about 1-2 hours each week. I take walks whenever I can. I also have celiac disease that I found out about in 2003. My diet consists mostly of what is typical on here. I drink full fat milk, coffee, and water with grey sea salt added to it. I eat fruits, oysters, liver, lamb, beef, and occasionally chicken breast. I do have potatoes and starches (rice, gluten free pancakes, and corn tortillas) occasionally but only with a TON of butter on them. My fat is butter, more butter, coconut oil and half and half for coffee when I do not use full fat milk for coffee. Vanilla all natural ice cream is my buddy. Oh and eggs too but not too much. Also I take 5mg of DHEA and every other day 100mg pregnenalone. (Sometimes every 2 days). I also eat carrot salad. So the carrot salad is where I have done the change. Instead of added coconut oil to it I have added macadamia nut oil. I figured that was the least PUFA profile I could get. It is cold pressed. I add anywhere from 3/4 tablespoon to 1 tablespoon to the carrot salad. I eat it around lunchtime. This is what I have noticed:

1. A very warming effect that lasts until I go to bed. (Usually around 10 pm) I have to take the covers off even with air conditioning at 67. Not sure if this warming effect could be negative or postitive and why I say that is people get elevated temperatures from negative reactions too.

2. This week I have had on two nights a quart of Hagen Dazs vanilla ice cream. At the end of the week my weight is down to 167 as of this morning. I average around 3000 calories a day and of course the extra couple 800 calories from the ice cream. I definitely look leaner in the mid section. Just not sure what to make of it yet. Its very early and could just be an adaptation to the macadamia nut oil. Who knows at this point?

 

[CLASH]

The guy benefits from (likely) olive oil, reduces it to oleic acid, comes across a publication that found that free oleic acid somehow improves the activity of cytochrome c oxidase, assumes that it can be replicated in the body right away*, associates metabolic decline and impaired cellular respiration with hyperphosphatemia and ties it all together. Oleic acid deficiency is then the cause of hyperphosphatemia. What a joke.

?


The benefits of oleic acid here could be the monounsaturated fats easing triglyceride formation at the endoplasmic reticulum, especially in the case of choline deficiency.
Triglycerides and phospholipids with a combination of both saturated and monounsaturated fats seem to be much more easily formed and trafficked than the purely saturated ones, atleast based on the fatty liver studies I've been reading.

Also the monounsaturated fats do have the ability to change the bile acid composition relative to the saturated it seems. The change in composition of bile acids may interact with microbial metabolism in the GI tract. I forum member here showed this to me, I cant @ him for some reason: Kartofel (I think this was how his name was spelled).

 

[jay123]

?


The benefits of oleic acid here could be the monounsaturated fats easing triglyceride formation at the endoplasmic reticulum, especially in the case of choline deficiency.
Triglycerides and phospholipids with a combination of both saturated and monounsaturated fats seem to be much more easily formed and trafficked than the purely saturated ones, atleast based on the fatty liver studies I've been reading.

Also the monounsaturated fats do have the ability to change the bile acid composition relative to the saturated it seems. The change in composition of bile acids may interact with microbial metabolism in the GI tract. I forum member here showed this to me, I cant @ him for some reason: Kartofel (I think this was how his name was spelled).

Very helpful. Thank you. That seems very plausible.

 

[Mauritio]

I thought the same thing about the carrot salad too. He does not mention an amount but its obvious that olive oil and macadamia nut oil would have the highest concentrations of oleic acid but macadamia nut oil has lower PUFA than olive oil. And both are high in MUFA. If I recall, saturated fat is coverted into MUFA when needed too. He seemed to be hesitant to write it but his comparison of it to acetazolamide is interesting.

Danny said he uses like half a teaspoon.

 

[jay123]

Update today: I have had something happen to me that could be just the time frame or it could be attributed to the n=1 experiment. Just to give you some background: On December 19th, 2020 I had a headache for about 4 hours and went to bed. I woke up the next morning and poured a glass of orange juice and it tasted like water. Yep. The good old Covid-1984 was in me. I never had any other symptoms except I could not taste or smell. Ever since then, I have not tasted or smelled except for some reason I can taste maple syrup. Dont know why? I smell smoke from a fire but can only "sense or feel" salty or sweet. It really stinks because I love the taste of food. So here we go: Since I started doing this I have had anywhere between 3/4 to 1 tablespoon of macadamia nut oil everyday. I have noticed the warming effect especially if I take it in the morning. But today for the first time since December 19th,2020 I tasted some of my lunch. It was provolone cheese. And it felt sooooo goood! I know I am considered a "long hauler" (whatever that means from what I think was a bio weapon) and it could be just time to taste again but I cannot help but think that adding the macadamia nut oil may have helped. Especially since the oleic acid is supposed to help in the mouth area. Who knows but I am not stopping.

 

[stsfut]

Interested in your experiment progress?

 

[jay123]

Interested in your experiment progress?

I have been taking about 3/4 tablespoon in the morning each day. I was taking it at dinner but would get hot while sleeping. My weight has not changed (I am on the lean side) but it definitely warms me.

 

[Amazoniac]

- Role of oleic acid in the metabolism of essential fatty acids

Groups of young male guinea pigs were fed diets containing corn oil, coconut oil, coconut oil plus elaidic acid, and coconut oil plus oleic acid. The oleic acid-fed group showed signs of essential fatty acid deficiency after four weeks and severe signs after eight weeks. The elaidic acid-fed group did not show these symptoms. It is proposed that oleic acid competes competitively with linoleic acid as a substrate for the enzymes involved in linoleate transformations when only a very limited supply of linoleic acid is available to the animals and oleic acid is made available in relatively large amounts.