Interesting Peat Quote About Calcium

[Westside PUFAs]

"When there is adequate calcium, vitamin D, and magnesium in the diet, PTH is kept to a minimum. When PTH is kept low, cells increase their formation of the uncoupling proteins, that cause mitochondria to use energy at a higher rate, and this is associated with decreased activity of the fatty acid synthase enzymes."

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/milk.shtml

The fat in milk serves no purpose in this context. It's the calcium that's important. Skim milk provides calcium, casein, and lactose, but the fat is unnecessary. If steroid hormones are made from cholesterol, and the liver makes cholesterol, then there is no need to eat high amounts of fat in hopes that fat will be converted into cholesterol for hormone production.

"Sweet fruits will usually bring cholesterol levels up to normal" says Peat. So fat serves no purpose for hormone production.

 

[Blossom]

great quote.

 

[RPDiciple]

luve it

 

[haidut]

"When there is adequate calcium, vitamin D, and magnesium in the diet, PTH is kept to a minimum. When PTH is kept low, cells increase their formation of the uncoupling proteins, that cause mitochondria to use energy at a higher rate, and this is associated with decreased activity of the fatty acid synthase enzymes."

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/milk.shtml

The fat in milk serves no purpose in this context. It's the calcium that's important. Skim milk provides calcium, casein, and lactose, but the fat is unnecessary. If steroid hormones are made from cholesterol, and the liver makes cholesterol, then there is no need to eat high amounts of fat in hopes that fat will be converted into cholesterol for hormone production.

This implies taking vitamin D is great for metabolism. Peat said that the most effective way of lowering PTH is by taking vitamin D (with or without calcium). Given that vitamin D also lowers peripheral serotonin synthesis, this would make it a very good method for raising temperature and metabolism without using dangerous drugs like DNP.

 

[Suikerbuik]

That is solely based on this study Haidut?

 

[haidut]

That is solely based on this study Haidut?

Yes, and I understand that it is a strong statement. However, even if the effects on serotonin are small the effects on PTH are well known and proven. So, if Peat is right about low PTH preventing diabetes and increasing metabolism then vitamin D should be helpful.

 

[marcar72]

Are you all "rest assured" on the fat issue you seem to have an ongoing issue with? Sounds like you're trying real hard to convince yourself that "fat is the devil", lol...

You're all over the internet bashing saturated fat. Seriously, give it a break. You're coming off just as crazy as the "sugar is the devil" folks. :2cents

I had to follow up when I seen your book review on amazon.com bashing saturated fats, lol. You're sure not a fan I suppose...

 

[nikotrope]

Vitamin D is... in the milk fat! Like vitamin A (and E and K is minimal quantities). Seems pretty important to me.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Are you all "rest assured" on the fat issue you seem to have an ongoing issue with? Sounds like you're trying real hard to convince yourself that "fat is the devil", lol...

You're all over the internet bashing saturated fat. Seriously, give it a break. You're coming off just as crazy as the "sugar is the devil" folks. :2cents

I had to follow up when I seen your book review on amazon.com bashing saturated fats, lol. You're sure not a fan I suppose...

No I won't give it a break. Someone needs to call out the BS that is promoted in the nutrition scene about consuming all the cream and cream products you want without gaining fat on your belly, chest, neck, and thighs. Without giving a warning about it. At least Josh Rubin gave a WARNING in his book:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5860&p=69778#p69778

There is no warning from people about a fattening food like there is from cream, besides low carb salesmen who give warnings about "carbs" which are really milled flour products that have oil in them. As I clearly pointed out that warning directly from Ray Peat and you (and many others ignore what RP said) completely ignored that in your comment on Amazon.

Stop taking my views out of context. I'm not "bashing" saturated fats. Let's look at sources of saturated fats:

"High-fat cheeses
High-fat cuts of meat
Whole-fat milk and cream
Butter
Ice cream and ice cream products
Palm and coconut oils"

http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/b ... edfat.html

Out of the 8 foods listed, 5 of them are cream products. Five. Only three are non cream products.

I don't think fatty cuts of meat are a problem for a healthy person, besides the anti-thyroid amino acids. I don't think fatty cuts of meat will lead to fat gain on the body as easily as cream products.

I do not think cream products cause heart disease (PUFA breakdown products do) or do anything "bad" except fat gain and insulin resistance from fat gain. They are extremely great for fat gain as Ray pointed out. Cream products spefically, not simply "saturated fats."

Coconut fat is special because of it's MCT's. Coconut and palm fat are not a problem in this context because people do not eat eat those fats like they do cream fats, that is the difference! That is what I am talking about! People very easily can eat way too much cream in coffee, ice cream, cheese, full fat yogurt, and butter in a way that you can't do with other saturated fats.

This is also whats so dumb about Paleo and saturated fat because the Paleo diet as promoted by its founder Loren Cordain says no to dairy:

http://thepaleodiet.com/dairy-milking-worth/

So to put cream products as your source of saturated fat in a paleo diet makes no sense.

Anyone who claims to eat lots of cream products daily, and claims to not have a gut, gyno, turkey neck, and thunder thighs must provide current photos or video proving this. If they don't, then it is extremely difficult to believe them.

Anyone who claims to eat lots of cream products daily, and claims to not have a gut, gyno, turkey neck, and thunder thighs must provide current photos or video proving this. If they don't, then it is extremely difficult to believe them.

Vitamin D is... in the milk fat! Like vitamin A (and E and K is minimal quantities). Seems pretty important to me.

Good luck getting your daily dose of vitamin D from non-homgonized, organic, grass-fed, sunshine glazed cream that you will eat everyday, specifically the cream on top of the milk, not the milk.

Ray in the above quote is saying that you should have optimal vitamin D levels, not get it from food.

 

[tara]

Let's look at sources of saturated fats:

"High-fat cheeses
High-fat cuts of meat
Whole-fat milk and cream
Butter
Ice cream and ice cream products
Palm and coconut oils"

http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/b ... edfat.html

Out of the 8 foods listed, 5 of them are cream products. Five. Only three are non cream products.

That's just because of the way they are grouped. You could just as easily list:
Milk fat
Beef fat
Mutton fat
Coconut oil
Palm oil
In which case milk fat is only one of 5.
Or you could separate out dripping, sausages, etc from the meat, and have a list with even more meat sources. Or separate out baked goods from coconut and palm oil, and have more vegetable fat sources listed.

I don't think fatty cuts of meat are a problem for a healthy person, besides the anti-thyroid amino acids. I don't think fatty cuts of meat will lead to fat gain on the body as easily as cream products.

I do not think cream products cause heart disease or do anything "bad" except fat gain and insulin resistance from fat gain. They are extremely great for fat gain as Ray pointed out. Cream products spefically, not simply "saturated fats."

Coconut fat is special because of it's MCT's. Coconut and palm fat are not a problem in this context because people do not eat eat those fats like they do cream fats, that is the difference! That is what I am talking about! People very easily can eat way too much cream in coffee, ice cream, cheese, full fat yogurt, and butter in a way that you can't do with other saturated fats.[/b]

It's funny the assumptions people about other peoples diets. "No one eats y amount of x'. " You can't eat too much x.' "No on eats spoonfuls of butter'. I'm not sure that it's valid to claim that x kind of food is not a problem because nobody eats more than y amount of x. People do all sorts of things to work around food intolerances. I used to sometimes make cakes with lots of PUFA oils because I had a milk sensitivity and was avoiding butter. I wouldn't dream of doing that now, and I've got more of an idea why they made me feel so bad, but I could have used coconut oil instead if I'd got the PUFA bad/SFA good message a bit earlier.

I suspect that I get more fat from beef and mutton than I do from milk fat. I do eat some butter and a little cream, but I limit them because so far I'm not convinced that following appetite on this will serve me. I might experiment at some stage with dropping that limitation for a while to see what happens. I also often trim the larger chunks of fat off my meat, but I like lamb/mutton, and there's always quite a bit of fat with that.

Out of curiosity, why do you think meat fat is not a problem? It is often less saturated than either milk fat or coconut/palm oil.

 

[pboy]

just for reference sake, I found it out in a very sublte way I don't wanna get into the details of, but basically...I weigh like 130 pounds, and the amount of lipids synthesized in a day on a no fat diet is only around 15-20ish grams, maybe 25...id have to do the math again...but basically that's like...you could eat that much and it would do what our body would do anyways (tho with pufa) or you could have carbs do it, let your body use exactly what it needs. If you eat probably up to...45-60 grams of fat but still in calorie range, you'd use them on a day to day basis..mor than that is getting into storing territory. A lot of fat isn't absorbed that you eat, you'd be surprised...a donut as an example...you'd absorb a lot of the fat, or bread and butter, lot of the fat, or rice in vegetable oil, even ice cream...but anything that has a lot of calcium, magnesium, like milk chocolate or whole milk, or fiber in it, especially the rougher tougher fibers, actually turn fat into soapy material and get passed in stool, of trapped in fiber and passed out...at the same time, it probably takes some potential calcium and mag from absorption. It goes both ways, the fat helps make astringent and rough fiber less offensice, and the calcium magnesium fat soaps help clear out the bowel very effectively and mild antimicrobial, but also...a loss of alkaline minerals, and fact some pufa might be absorbed. I don't see any reason to ever eat more fat than 60grams at the most, on a reasonable calorie diet...22-2900ish

that's why in Ayurveda theres lots of quotes about how...any meal is rendered non offensive when enough ghee is used, and helps neutralize toxins in the GI..its not the fat itself, but the soaps it turns into when the meal has enough cal and mag, and also helps make drying and rough fibers more flowable and lubed. but again, a lot of the Indians who eat a lot of ghee have large guts, but they also eat a lot of harsh spices, so the ghee helps protect agains that, and also probably microbes in the food and water

if youre not adding isolated fats, and just using whole milk in a reasonable amount, it might have benefit because most of the fat is turned into soap unabsorbed and helps GI flow significantly...a lil less calcium, but it still pans out to a positive effect on a peaty diet. If you were eating more other foods, you might be better off with lowfat to have a more calcium effect from the milk...but really the fatty soaps are really good in a sense, in my opinion they are much better than fiber or stimulants to keep GI function smooth...that's how babies still ***t so easy and often. I prefer lower fat because I cant stand the mouthfeel of thick oil and...the butyric acid smell sometimes lingers and its a hellish odor, and I think the fat slows down gastric e mptying a little

 

[Westside PUFAs]

"When there is adequate calcium, vitamin D, and magnesium in the diet, PTH is kept to a minimum. When PTH is kept low, cells increase their formation of the uncoupling proteins, that cause mitochondria to use energy at a higher rate, and this is associated with decreased activity of the fatty acid synthase enzymes."

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/milk.shtml

The fat in milk serves no purpose in this context. It's the calcium that's important. Skim milk provides calcium, casein, and lactose, but the fat is unnecessary. If steroid hormones are made from cholesterol, and the liver makes cholesterol, then there is no need to eat high amounts of fat in hopes that fat will be converted into cholesterol for hormone production.

This implies taking vitamin D is great for metabolism. Peat said that the most effective way of lowering PTH is by taking vitamin D (with or without calcium). Given that vitamin D also lowers peripheral serotonin synthesis, this would make it a very good method for raising temperature and metabolism without using dangerous drugs like DNP.

This would explain why my 1 hour per day SoCal sunbathing on both sides of my body has changed my life.

 

[marcar72]

...Anyone who claims to eat lots of cream products daily, and claims to not have a gut, gyno, turkey neck, and thunder thighs must provide current photos or video proving this. If they don't, then it is extremely difficult to believe them...

I drink 3 qts. to 1 gallon of whole milk on most days. Also here lately I've been consuming 100 - 150 grams of dark chocolate per day. So that right there is like 150-200 grams of fat per day.

I'm a 5'11", 155 lb. middle aged male with the same proportions he had in high school. I'm not sure where all that fat goes but I don't seem to be carrying it around with me... :2cents

 

[Westside PUFAs]

tara,

People do not eat: ("people," to me means the average American/westerner who has metabolic syndrome)

Mutton fat, especially mutton fat! Haha. It is funny to picture people eating lots of lamb. I know you're just listing it for the purpose of listing a saturated fat but when someone eats a piece of lamb meat, it's not the same as eating oil and cream.

People do not eat Coconut oil

People do not eat Palm oil

People's main source of saturated fat are cream products. That is my point.

To people, CO and PO are exotic health food store cooking fats, not direct by the spoonful consumed fats like cream is.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

...Anyone who claims to eat lots of cream products daily, and claims to not have a gut, gyno, turkey neck, and thunder thighs must provide current photos or video proving this. If they don't, then it is extremely difficult to believe them...

I drink 3 qts. to 1 gallon of whole milk on most days. Also here lately I've been consuming 100 - 150 grams of dark chocolate per day. So that right there is like 150-200 grams of fat per day.

I'm a 5'11", 155 lb. middle aged male with the same proportions he had in high school. I'm not sure where all that fat goes but I don't seem to be carrying it around with me... :2cents

K.

 

[marcar72]

K.

Search my posts you'll see... I'm an open book...

 

[Tom]

if youre not adding isolated fats, and just using whole milk in a reasonable amount, it might have benefit because most of the fat is turned into soap unabsorbed and helps GI flow significantly...a lil less calcium, but it still pans out to a positive effect on a peaty diet. If you were eating more other foods, you might be better off with lowfat to have a more calcium effect from the milk...but really the fatty soaps are really good in a sense, in my opinion they are much better than fiber or stimulants to keep GI function smooth...that's how babies still s*** so easy and often. I prefer lower fat because I cant stand the mouthfeel of thick oil and...the butyric acid smell sometimes lingers and its a hellish odor, and I think the fat slows down gastric e mptying a little

pboy, I enoy reading some of your posts for their philosophical content, but I have to disagree with you on what you´re saying here. Human milk is 55% of energy as fats, do you think most of this just goes straight through unabsorbed? That makes little sense to me.

 

[pboy]

not most in human milk, but some for sure. Cows milk, most, cause all the calcium and magnesium and slighty lower fat then human milk. Do an experiment if you don't believe me. Eat same diet low or no fiber, few days whole milk, next few skim milk or lower fat...you'll see stool volume significantly change and it will have a consistency of bar soap to an extent, of course with whatever else in there too

Chocolate to an extent is similar, a large part of the fat is bound to magnesium and becomes soapy and unabsorbed....this explains marcar's happenings

the thing is though, saturated fat are more likely to become the soapy substances, the pufas less likely, so you still disproportionally end up absorbing a bad ratio of pufa's over time doing that

 

[marcar72]

Chocolate to an extent is similar, a large part of the fat is bound to magnesium and becomes soapy and unabsorbed....this explains marcar's happenings

I'm not sure how it becomes "soapy" since I'm not ingesting any lye with said saturated fats.(sarcasm intended, don't ever eat lye unless you want to die) Why can't someone just ingest and utilize said saturated fats? Is that too hard to believe?

This is after all a pro-metabolic WoE. Imagine that, someone following the main tenets of such a WoE and getting results! Nah, he must be cheating... right... :2cents

 

[narouz]

just for reference sake, I found it out in a very sublte way I don't wanna get into the details of, but basically...I weigh like 130 pounds, and the amount of lipids synthesized in a day on a no fat diet is only around 15-20ish grams, maybe 25...id have to do the math again...but basically that's like...you could eat that much and it would do what our body would do anyways (tho with pufa) or you could have carbs do it, let your body use exactly what it needs. If you eat probably up to...45-60 grams of fat but still in calorie range, you'd use them on a day to day basis..mor than that is getting into storing territory. A lot of fat isn't absorbed that you eat, you'd be surprised...a donut as an example...you'd absorb a lot of the fat, or bread and butter, lot of the fat, or rice in vegetable oil, even ice cream...but anything that has a lot of calcium, magnesium, like milk chocolate or whole milk, or fiber in it, especially the rougher tougher fibers, actually turn fat into soapy material and get passed in stool, of trapped in fiber and passed out...at the same time, it probably takes some potential calcium and mag from absorption. It goes both ways, the fat helps make astringent and rough fiber less offensice, and the calcium magnesium fat soaps help clear out the bowel very effectively and mild antimicrobial, but also...a loss of alkaline minerals, and fact some pufa might be absorbed. I don't see any reason to ever eat more fat than 60grams at the most, on a reasonable calorie diet...22-2900ish

that's why in Ayurveda theres lots of quotes about how...any meal is rendered non offensive when enough ghee is used, and helps neutralize toxins in the GI..its not the fat itself, but the soaps it turns into when the meal has enough cal and mag, and also helps make drying and rough fibers more flowable and lubed. but again, a lot of the Indians who eat a lot of ghee have large guts, but they also eat a lot of harsh spices, so the ghee helps protect agains that, and also probably microbes in the food and water

if youre not adding isolated fats, and just using whole milk in a reasonable amount, it might have benefit because most of the fat is turned into soap unabsorbed and helps GI flow significantly...a lil less calcium, but it still pans out to a positive effect on a peaty diet. If you were eating more other foods, you might be better off with lowfat to have a more calcium effect from the milk...but really the fatty soaps are really good in a sense, in my opinion they are much better than fiber or stimulants to keep GI function smooth...that's how babies still s*** so easy and often. I prefer lower fat because I cant stand the mouthfeel of thick oil and...the butyric acid smell sometimes lingers and its a hellish odor, and I think the fat slows down gastric e mptying a little

Fascinating thoughts, pboy.
I've always been interested in the Ayurvedic tradition.
How do you get your calcium and magnesium?