Intense Unrequited Love? Hypo/serotonin Connection

[ilikecats]

do any of you guys or gals think that intense unrequited love is something that's related to metabolism and serotonin?i feel it would make sense that that would be the behavior of a weak organism?

 

[Waynish]

One thing that is very Peaty is going against reductionism. This idea is an extreme form of reductionism. In short: no.

 

[Dhair]

One thing that is very Peaty is going against reductionism. This idea is an extreme form of reductionism. In short: no.

How is it reductionist?It's a complicated issue, and I think it's an interesting question.

do any of you guys or gals think that intense unrequited love is something that's related to metabolism and serotonin?i feel it would make sense that that would be the behavior of a weak organism?

I think that the learned helplessness and high serotonin connection would DEFINITELY contribute to this behavior, and that has been my experience. Men who are physically healthy with high androgens generally have an abundance mentality and enough self-confidence to move forward in a situation like this. Of course I'm not judging any individual who might be suffering from this, because I have been in the same situation.
I was on SSRIs for a very long time and I have been in a few situations like this. Since SSRIs seem to reinforce obsessive behavior and high serotonin is implicated in autism, this is clearly a recipe for disaster when it comes to any kind of interpersonal relationship. I don't have any of those problems since I've started focusing on my health.
So yes, I think you're onto something here.

 

[Waynish]

How is it reductionist to reduce all instances of unrequited love to a balance of molecules in the body of the party in love?

 

[Makrosky]

How is it reductionist to reduce all instances of unrequited love to a balance of molecules in the body of the party in love?

+1

People don't really understand how reductionist is this manicheistic serotonin vs dopamine thing that 99% of the people in the forum tend to adscribe.

I was on SSRIs for a very long time and I have been in a few situations like this. Since SSRIs seem to reinforce obsessive behavior and high serotonin is implicated in autism, this is clearly a recipe for disaster when it comes to any kind of interpersonal relationship.

For the record : I also was on SSRIs for many years and I can tell you it was the most productive period of my life and all the opposite of being autistic, that is, LOTS of real social interaction, etc. etc.... of course it had side effects. Not saying it's good for anyone. But you just can't reduce things that much.

 

[Pointless]

From experimenting with effects of pheromones on humans, I think that there is a stronger connection with glucocorticoids like cortisol and intense, unrequited love. Vasopressin and phenethylamine (similar structurally to serotonin) may also produce this effect.

 

[Greg says]

"..Italian students who claimed they had recently fallen in love were found to have serotonin levels 40% lower than their peers." ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Spokey]

It kind of makes sense that love is a low serotonin state. I think unrequited love is a high serotonin situation anyway that's exacerbated by routine (hopelessly masochistic jobs) and poor social support.
If you think about the behaviors that associate with it, calling your ex too many times, obsessive thinking about the person, unnecessary rationalizations for masochistic behaviour (I'm doing this because I love you etc), it looks a lot like the sort of things you see in other high serotonin states of stress (OCD, ticks, repetitive movements & thoughts, excessive grooming and pulling out your feathers, whatever). In my annoyingly limited experience the application of mechanical reasoning to love is met with failure, there are probably evolutionary reasons for that.

Novelty, having fun, relaxing with friends, making new friends, changing jobs or study to something you really enjoy or at least can fit having fun into and learning not to give too much of a sh*t, help. I suspect things like LSD would be useful too if they were legal and used in the correct settings, they can change the patterns of reasoning that been met with failure in the past and change perspectives on the idea of love anyway. Perhaps the other less illegal anti serotonin agents might help here too.

 

[ecstatichamster]

romantic love is a high dopamine, high oxytocin state. It kind of disappears when you come. If you have a lot of sex and don't come, you build up high oxytocin and your wellbeing increases as your love reaches higher and higher levels. It's kind of an amazing way to live.

 

[Drareg]

I think unrequited love is rigidity which would point in the direction of your speculations.
Your projections from your memory create pleasure,the person you claim to love gave you pleasure even to dream/fantasise about,the danger is believing it's just pleasure she will bring,this is impossible.
We are all seeking pleasure but deny the opposite pain which goes hand in hand with pleasure,it's a trick the brain plays on our perceptions,if you get the girl pleasure and pain follow,just ask any loved up couples after 10years,it's ups and downs,probably much less than 10 years these days with all the media in your face.

Some would say your thoughts are confused,it's how all our minds work at times,to simplify it,the lower brain "desires"pleasure at all times,your higher brain creates ideas for the lower brain to say yes or no to,this girl got a yes a long time ago,even her form got the yes many years ago because you created the form from pop culture media outlets like baywatch and friends done to so many in the 90's, these programmes illicit pleasure for the lower brain,this is why people watch them,everything ends with pleasure in these programmes.

Your lower brain needs a new desire to move on to,even if you get this girl the lower Brain will start to act up again desiring more pleasure once the pleasure of your relationship with her wanes after 10 years or less.
Following these feelings leads to more confusion.
It's your higher Brain that is asking us if a situation like this is a problem,you know the truth underlying it which could be the following-
Ask yourself the question,is it possible if you clear your mind that this girl is essentially a mirror of millions of girls from your culture and age group,she is duplicated everywhere but your lower Brain will not recognise this,she brought pleasure first so it's locks in and won't let go.

Beauty does have an underlying symmetry or asymmetry we are programmed to like,it's hard to pinpoint Beauty because it differs amongst cultures,we see this amongst tribes who have piercings and tattoos that increase beauty relative to the cultural perceptions.
I still believe however there is a beauty underlying all this which manifests itself in a"Tiger ,Tiger,burning bright,In the forests of the night;
What immortal hand or eye.
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?
Nature has beauty that some are currently lucky to be born with,they had,"Peaty parents", do we fall in love with these people as individuals and declare unrequited love because of our inferior high estrogen faces and bodies?
This is where the theory of beauty comes in,if it was set in stone they would all look like tigers,very similar,however they don't,beautiful people vary and they are in abundance so to claim you have special feelings for one over the other is basically your perceptions at work based on your memories,cultural memories.
They have the features of a high energy state that started in the womb,I thing humans will have more variation in these states relative to beauty than other animals because of said states,with time we could categorise it.
For example we can see beauty in all the races regardless of our race unless you are racist which is a cultural projetcion,we can also see what isn't hugely attractive in different races regardless of the race perceiving,even unattractive people can perceive what is unattractive and attractive in the physical.

Do you think about her when you are in a high energy state?
If you really want here,become what she is projecting,little changes on your part will catch here eye,keep in mind it doesn't really matter whether you do or don't,that is the reality!
However if it involves piercing and tattooing your balls I would really reconsider what I have said,I don't care what the artists thing here, piercing ones balls is incoherent and a redundant concept.

The reality is there is no divide between higher and lower brain.

 

[lampofred]

instinct tells me unrequited love is a low metabolism, low dopamine/high serotonin state, a healthy relationship is a state of balanced metabolism, and no attachment for others (sort of like a psychopath) even with others fawning after you is a hypermetabolic, very high dopamine/low serotonin state

 

[lampofred]

so jealous of how some of the population is naturally in a hypermetabolic state whereas us mere mortals have to watch diet so strictly just to be balanced...

i've always wondered whether prophets and other historical figures associated with divinity were individuals who were extremely hyperthyroid and very dopaminergic. whenever i'm in a high dopamine and hypermetabolic state, i feel very close to God, but when my body slows down, i grow skeptical.

Schizophrenia, psychosis (high dopamine states) are highly associated with feelings of religious grandeur and thinking that God is communicating with you... the only question is if it is actually true or if it really is just delusion

 

[mayweatherking]

Yes... my theory. .... women have high estrogen so crave "love", really they crave the progesterone that comes off love to oppose said high estrogen and help balance it.. men with high estrogen crave love.'.. men with low estrogen. ... not so much?

 

[DaveFoster]

so jealous of how some of the population is naturally in a hypermetabolic state whereas us mere mortals have to watch diet so strictly just to be balanced...

i've always wondered whether prophets and other historical figures associated with divinity were individuals who were extremely hyperthyroid and very dopaminergic. whenever i'm in a high dopamine and hypermetabolic state, i feel very close to God, but when my body slows down, i grow skeptical.

Schizophrenia, psychosis (high dopamine states) are highly associated with feelings of religious grandeur and thinking that God is communicating with you... the only question is if it is actually true or if it really is just delusion

There's mixed evidence for schizophrenia being caused by excessive dopamine. Considering serotonin's contribution to verbal impulse, I'd say it's a greater contributor.

 

[lexis]

Human beings are transmitters of energy.In the low serotonin state,your very existence brings
a certain feeling(some call it 'love') to everything around you,including animals,trees,insects...etc

 

[lvysaur]

women have high estrogen so crave "love", really they crave the progesterone that comes off love to oppose said high estrogen and help balance it.. men with high estrogen crave love.'.. men with low estrogen. ... not so much?

Estrogen brings on the "lordosis" reflex in rats; AKA it makes them sexually submissive.

Testosterone increases the sex drive in general.

It's interesting that there are many more men with traditionally female sexualities (aka gay men) than women with male sexualities (lesbians).

This makes sense in the context of estrogen as a primitive hormone, and testosterone as an advanced, expensive one, much like progesterone. Lesbians also tend to have high progesterone, and have the lowest rates of sexual intercourse of all couples.

 

[DaveFoster]

Estrogen brings on the "lordosis" reflex in rats; AKA it makes them sexually submissive.

Testosterone increases the sex drive in general.

It's interesting that there are many more men with traditionally female sexualities (aka gay men) than women with male sexualities (lesbians).

This makes sense in the context of estrogen as a primitive hormone, and testosterone as an advanced, expensive one, much like progesterone. Lesbians also tend to have high progesterone, and have the lowest rates of sexual intercourse of all couples.

Girls I've met who have high estrogen symptoms are exceptionally submissive.

On another note, autistic women display highly reactive and strongly feminine qualities.

 

[japanesedude]

I think high Estrogen can causes similar feelings.
like desire for recognition,desire to be liked by women.
Estrogen makes me emotional.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

Unhealthy obsession with one person ('oneitis', a.k.a. thinking she is the only one for you in the whole world) is one of the signs of a 'bad' neurochemical / hormonal balance in my experience.

 

[REOSIRENS]

Unhealthy obsession with one person ('oneitis', a.k.a. thinking she is the only one for you in the whole world) is one of the signs of a 'bad' neurochemical / hormonal balance in my experienc

Yes you are... High serotonin and estrogen are related to this... Dopamine helps you overcome helpless thinking(can't live without him/her...or without this or that)