Intense Stress During Passage Of Food Through Large Intestine

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Thanks for your thoughts, @tara.

Hi Creative, if you feel like mentioning, what's your gut transit time and consistency like?

TMI alert...Not sure about transit time, but I have 1-3 bowel movements almost every day. Stools are narrow and of intermediate consistency -- not perfect tubes, but not flakes either.


This is from wikipedia on Mg hydroxide:
"Magnesium hydroxide is marketed for medical use as chewable tablets, as capsules, powder, and as liquid suspensions, sometimes flavored. These products are sold as antacids to neutralize stomach acid and relieve indigestion and heartburn. It also is a laxative to alleviate constipation. As a laxative, the osmotic force of the magnesia acts to draw fluids from the body. High doses can lead to diarrhea, and can deplete the body's supply of potassium, sometimes leading to muscle cramps.[17]"​

If you've used it regularly for a while, cld it have reduced stomach acid or potassium or something too much? That's just speculation. I've used it occasionally, but I don't use it daily. (I don't share those gut symptoms with you.)

I'm not sure if you're addressing these remarks about magnesium hydroxide to me, but I only used small doses of it for maybe 2-3 weeks (?) after running out of my usual magnesium supplement, mag glycinate. I eventually got more mag glycinate, dropped the mag hydroxide, and then dropped the mag glycinate as well (after only a week or so) when I began to suspect it might be irritating my intestine. So I haven't supplemented magnesium for several weeks (and didn't use huge amounts before then) but my intestine is still on the warpath.
 

dfspcc20

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Interesting. My intestinal problems started no later than last spring, and they very likely occurred off and on before then without my realizing what was happening. So I'm guessing my problems pre-date 5G.

I noticed 5G cell towers started going up in my area in late 2019, but I know it started earlier elsewhere. And I know 5G wifi has been around longer, possibly going back to 2018.
(caveat: I have no idea if 5G cellular is similar to 5G wifi in terms of possible biological effects)


AIUI, Even people who do not seem to have had severe respiratory effects of COVID19 initially, some of them seem to have effects in tissues, including lungs, kidney, heart, GI tract. I'm not saying you had covid-19, or that you didn't. If you are somewhere where testing for that makes sense, you could consider asking to test?

What info/ diagnoses/ hypotheses/treatment have you previously had from the medical system relate to the issues you describe?

This is from wikipedia on Mg hydroxide:
"Magnesium hydroxide is marketed for medical use as chewable tablets, as capsules, powder, and as liquid suspensions, sometimes flavored. These products are sold as antacids to neutralize stomach acid and relieve indigestion and heartburn. It also is a laxative to alleviate constipation. As a laxative, the osmotic force of the magnesia acts to draw fluids from the body. High doses can lead to diarrhea, and can deplete the body's supply of potassium, sometimes leading to muscle cramps.[17]"
If you've used it regularly for a while, cld it have reduced stomach acid or potassium or something too much? That's just speculation. I've used it occasionally, but I don't use it daily. (I don't share those gut symptoms with you.)

Not sure how viable covid-19 tests would be at this point, considering my flu-like symptoms were ~6 months ago. But Red Cross recently announced they're offering free testing if you donate blood, so I might look into that.

No other diagnoses related to this issue.
I've experimented with magnesium bicarbonate (made from mg hydroxide) over a year ago, but it doesn't line up timing-wise with these symptoms.



You said B1 and glycine has triggered this in the past. Both are known to cause oxalate dumping. Your stress response sounds consistent with what I get and what many others report in the trying low oxalates group on fb. Glycine needs B6 to not become oxalate. And B6 needs B2, etc.

Interesting. My symptoms did start a little bit after I started experimenting with pure glycine (vs collagen). I haven't taken the pure glycine in months, though.
 
OP
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@Creative Nature glad youre feeling better. energin (and basically any other b vitamin in ethanol) has great transdermal absorbtion btw, might be worth a try

Thank you, @Andman. I agree about transdermal use. I used to take Energin orally every day, then experimented with topical use. It can be hard to tell what's irritating my intestine, but even after I switched to topical use, I still had a lingering suspicion that Energin might somehow be contributing to the problem, so I dropped it a few weeks ago. I'll try re-introducing it topically at some point. I like the product a lot; just being cautious.
 
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james2388

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I have only read the OP first post. You should get a colonoscopy as soon as possible, along with a CT scan or MRI/ with ultrasound as well. 3 tests. This could be your gall bladder, or pancreas which sit above your large intestine or it can be an entrapped small intestine or SIBO. Other things that come to mind is Hepatic portal hypertension, and a hiatal hernia. Please talk with your doctor asap and run some basic blood labs.

I don't know how one can get lost in the medical system if all this checks out.
 

orewashin

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Meet My Nemesis: My Intestine
Trying to lower the bacterial population in my intestine with daily carrots, mushrooms, charcoal (2-3 tbsps, with coconut oil, every 4-5 days), penicillin (up to 125 mg 2X/day), B2 (25 mg/day), etc. has not seemed to help so far.
You're not supposed to use that much charcoal, only a small amount dissolved in oil or water. It works in small amounts, like 1/4 tsp.

I would also recommend getting granulated rather than powdered, as well as checking its purity. RP doesn't recommend AC. I wouldn't recommend using it on a regular basis.
 

tara

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Not sure how viable covid-19 tests would be at this point, considering my flu-like symptoms were ~6 months ago
You're right. Unless/until a suitable test can assess past exposure, it may not be much use at this stage.
No other diagnoses related to this issue.
Sounds like you had previous experience with medical system that you didn't find helpful - just wondering if there was any info that came out of it.
If you haven't had any tests/exams/scans yet, maybe its's time you to get some. Could be structural issues needing attention.
 
OP
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I noticed 5G cell towers started going up in my area in late 2019, but I know it started earlier elsewhere. And I know 5G wifi has been around longer, possibly going back to 2018.
(caveat: I have no idea if 5G cellular is similar to 5G wifi in terms of possible biological effects)

Thanks, I stand corrected.
 
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You're not supposed to use that much charcoal, only a small amount dissolved in oil or water. It works in small amounts, like 1/4 tsp.

I would also recommend getting granulated rather than powdered, as well as checking its purity. RP doesn't recommend AC. I wouldn't recommend using it on a regular basis.

When I take charcoal -- not often -- I use granulated from Health Natura. Several years ago, RP said he wasn't satisfied with the safety of the available charcoal products, so I'm not advocating that anyone make charcoal a fourth macronutrient. But enough old posts in this forum discussed use of a few tbsps at a time to make me comfortable experimenting with those doses for short periods (working up from lower doses). For me, charcoal produced neither great benefits nor observable harm.

Edit to add: My original post mentions a lot of experiments I've tried that aren't necessarily part of my daily routine.
 
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dfspcc20

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@Creative Nature How are you feeling? Any improvement?
I realized many of my symptoms seem due to chronic neck muscle tension that led to nerve compression leading to tingling in arms and weird feeling in my chest. Spraying topical magnesium on my neck when it's feeling stiff, along with some diaphragmatic breathing exercises, seem to help in that regard a lot.
I maybe had one episode of the intense stress feeling during peristalsis since my last post. It woke me up at night this time, with the only symptoms being suddenly feeling really cold, trembling, followed by a bowel movement, then trouble sleeping the rest of the night. Haven't made any connections to specific foods or stress.
 
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@Creative Nature How are you feeling? Any improvement?
I realized many of my symptoms seem due to chronic neck muscle tension that led to nerve compression leading to tingling in arms and weird feeling in my chest. Spraying topical magnesium on my neck when it's feeling stiff, along with some diaphragmatic breathing exercises, seem to help in that regard a lot.
I maybe had one episode of the intense stress feeling during peristalsis since my last post. It woke me up at night this time, with the only symptoms being suddenly feeling really cold, trembling, followed by a bowel movement, then trouble sleeping the rest of the night. Haven't made any connections to specific foods or stress.

Thanks for the update, @dfspcc20. Glad you're making progress.

What you say about nerve compression's influence on your symptoms is very interesting. As I've lost most of my mobility, I've become careless about my posture when sitting or lying down -- and unfortunately, I spend lots of time doing both. It wouldn't be surprising if one of my usual positions is pinching a nerve. How did you figure out nerve compression was a problem for you?

When you had the stress reaction to peristalsis, did the peristalsis continue after the bowel movement? I often find that a bowel movement doesn't bring relief because it just creates room for the next bowel movement.

I've had several good days recently (no significant stress associated with intestinal transit), but the last few -- especially today -- have been rough. I had been concerned about getting enough protein (a chronic problem for me), so a few days ago I took about 10-12 g of amino acid powders over the course of a day, and apparently that (or some other unknown cause) was enough to put my intestine on the warpath. I've been getting brutal reactions to intestinal transit ever since.

It sometimes feels like my intestine is trying to create diarrhea to expel something REALLY toxic, but can't for some reason. (Maybe because I'm taking cyproheptadine? Note that I usually have 1-3 bowel movements per day, so it's not like I'm completely constipated.) Perhaps in a futile attempt to speed up transit and get rid of the toxins, the intestine just cranks the stress hormones to the max, sending me to my own personal hell.

When I'm feeling better, hopefully next few days, I'll post about some of my recent experiments. In the meantime, any ideas for calming my irritated intestine (from anyone reading) are welcome.
 

Andman

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Perhaps its as simple as reacting to fillers/impurities in the amino powders? RP is pretty big on that
 
OP
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Perhaps its as simple as reacting to fillers/impurities in the amino powders? RP is pretty big on that

Yes, I agree, very likely impurities. After several days without much intestinal stress, I got overconfident, ignored my own experiences and RP's warning, and gambled...and am now paying the price.

I obviously won't repeat the mistake with AA powders, but it's impressive how little it takes to irritate my intestine, how severe the effects are, and how long they last.

There must be some ways to lower inflammation in the intestine that I'm overlooking...maybe swallow a bottle of Progest-E...
 

Andman

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I get a similar reaction to drinking cheap BCAAs and taurine, like within a few minutes after drinking (mixing in juice, water, milk makes no difference)

What usually helps to calm things down is glycine and/or emodin (cascara)
 
OP
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I get a similar reaction to drinking cheap BCAAs and taurine, like within a few minutes after drinking (mixing in juice, water, milk makes no difference)

What usually helps to calm things down is glycine and/or emodin (cascara)

Thanks, @Andman -- all helpful suggestions. Glycine is one of the AAs that irritated my intestine a few days ago, and it's also done so on prior occasions. But gelatin definitely helps my intestine. When I'm getting these intense reactions to peristalsis, it's hard for me to eat much, but I'll keep trying. Emodin is definitely worth investigating (long story why I haven't tried it yet).

Is there a particular brand of emodin/cascara that's worked well for you?
 

dfspcc20

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Thanks for the update, @dfspcc20. Glad you're making progress.

What you say about nerve compression's influence on your symptoms is very interesting. As I've lost most of my mobility, I've become careless about my posture when sitting or lying down -- and unfortunately, I spend lots of time doing both. It wouldn't be surprising if one of my usual positions is pinching a nerve. How did you figure out nerve compression was a problem for you?

When you had the stress reaction to peristalsis, did the peristalsis continue after the bowel movement? I often find that a bowel movement doesn't bring relief because it just creates room for the next bowel movement.

I don't remember exactly what drew me to the nerve compression explanation. I remember part of it was noticing I was getting symptoms frequently when I was driving, but I wouldn't get any symptoms if I was a passenger and someone else was driving. So kind of figured it was something to do with having my arms up, and/or eye movements.
And there were comments on a couple other threads in this forum.
Neck stiffness in general has always been present for me to some extent, but it seems to be exasperated a lot by these episodes.

Having a bowel movement usually relieves the worst of the symptoms for me, but I usually have a bit of a wired feeling afterwards.

Do you eat well-cooked mushrooms regularly by chance?
 

Andman

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Thanks, @Andman -- all helpful suggestions. Glycine is one of the AAs that irritated my intestine a few days ago, and it's also done so on prior occasions. But gelatin definitely helps my intestine. When I'm getting these intense reactions to peristalsis, it's hard for me to eat much, but I'll keep trying. Emodin is definitely worth investigating (long story why I haven't tried it yet).

Is there a particular brand of emodin/cascara that's worked well for you?

i use the idealabs one, always calms the gut down (although when its bad only for a few hours at best)

interesting about the glycine! what are the other offending aminos?
 
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I don't remember exactly what drew me to the nerve compression explanation. I remember part of it was noticing I was getting symptoms frequently when I was driving, but I wouldn't get any symptoms if I was a passenger and someone else was driving. So kind of figured it was something to do with having my arms up, and/or eye movements.
And there were comments on a couple other threads in this forum.
Neck stiffness in general has always been present for me to some extent, but it seems to be exasperated a lot by these episodes.

Having a bowel movement usually relieves the worst of the symptoms for me, but I usually have a bit of a wired feeling afterwards.

Do you eat well-cooked mushrooms regularly by chance?

Thanks for explaining how you identified nerve compression as a suspect. I'm experimenting with my sitting posture now. I have a hunch that bad posture may be putting too much pressure on parts of my back, making some of my pains worse.

When I'm up for cooking, I eat white button mushrooms almost daily. When I'm in very bad shape, as I am now, the mushrooms tend to fall by the wayside.
 
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OP
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i use the idealabs one, always calms the gut down (although when its bad only for a few hours at best)

interesting about the glycine! what are the other offending aminos?

Thanks, I may try the IdeaLabs version.

The experiment with AA powders that set off my latest trip to GI hell included glycine, lysine, threonine, phenylalanine, and BCAAs. Very little of each, total of around 10-12 g, and not all at once. I think all of the powders were from Pure Bulk, except for the BCAAs, which were from Powder City. (Edit for correction: glycine was NOW Foods brand.)

It's great that Pure Bulk sells powders with no excipients, but I've had really bad luck with them lately. Or maybe my recent bad experiences are just due to the gradually increasing sensitivity of my GI.
 
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gaze

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@Creative Nature @dfspcc20

I've had this recently about 1-3 days after eating potato's with lots of butter.



In this clip, Ray mentions how doubling blood sugar gets rid of allergies to almost everything, so I suspected I have some sort of allergy to potato, and in combination with a distention of the colon and rise in serotonin, nitric oxide, and estrogen, that very quickly my blood sugar drops (even after eating a meal). So when I had the adrenaline type reaction I quickly drank some orange juice and salt, and it went away quite quickly and I had the typical serotonin/adrenaline bowel movement. I havn't had enough attacks to test it more, but was wondering if you two have tried quickly drinking some sugar to bring blood sugar up during the attack.
 
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@Creative Nature @dfspcc20

I've had this recently about 1-3 days after eating potato's with lots of butter.



In this clip, Ray mentions how doubling blood sugar gets rid of allergies to almost everything, so I suspected I have some sort of allergy to potato, and in combination with a distention of the colon and rise in serotonin, nitric oxide, and estrogen, that very quickly my blood sugar drops (even after eating a meal). So when I had the adrenaline type reaction I quickly drank some orange juice and salt, and it went away quite quickly and I had the typical serotonin/adrenaline bowel movement. I havn't had enough attacks to test it more, but was wondering if you two have tried quickly drinking some sugar to bring blood sugar up during the attack.


Thank you, @Kammas. RP's point that adequate sugar intake can stop allergies is a good one to keep in mind. I can certainly do more to work on keeping my blood sugar stable.

My stress reactions to intestinal transit vary in symptoms and intensity. When the reactions are mild to moderate, fruit juice and salt (or baking soda) often help. When the reactions are severe, juice and salt don't seem to do much, and it's challenging to force myself to eat or drink.

My glycogen storage is poor, and some of the stress reactions may occur when I've gone too long without eating or drinking, but the more common pattern is that I eat or drink (or do something else that stimulates the intestine, like lying under a heat lamp), the intestine starts churning, and then I get a blast of stress hormones.
 

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