Intense Stress During Passage Of Food Through Large Intestine

[Creative Nature]

@danishispsychic:

I've had the intestinal problem on and off for close to a year, maybe longer. My experiments with charcoal have only lasted a few weeks, and they started long after the intestinal problem developed. I've also noticed no significant adverse effects from charcoal. So charcoal isn't the cause of my problem. But I appreciate the warning.

 

[Wagner83]

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[dfspcc20]

@Creative Nature I think I might have been having similar "attacks" sporadically since December 2019. Best described as a sudden feeling of stress/adrenaline (often shortly after eating), then rapid heart beat and breathing, feeling tense, tight neck and shoulders. If I don't lay down, it sometimes progresses to panic attack like symptoms, tingling in arms and top of head, shaking chills. Then I'll have a bowel movement or two, and those symptoms go away rapidly, though my nervous system still feels a bit fried afterwards. I've taken my temp a few times during an attack and it's usually 99.0 deg f +. I haven't taken my blood pressure during.
I did see a PCP and cardiologist about this and they found nothing obvious wrong.
There is a noticeable association between the bowel and these attacks, but it's hard for me to tell if the stress is causing the bowels to move, or the bowel movement is causing the stress...
At first these really scared me, as I've never had anything like it before, and I didn't know if I was having a stroke or heart attack or what. But now there is a lot less fear associated with them, but they're still not pleasant.
Also, similar to your case, these were preceded by an illness in early Dec 2019. Flu-like symptoms with respiratory symptoms as well; that resolved within a few days, but the first of these attacks was maybe a week later. Could be coincidence, but I don't have any other explanation, as I said I never really had anything like it in my life.
Different from your case, though, in that charcoal, cyproheptadine and camphosal all seem to help me. Not so much carrot/bamboo shoot salad.

 

[lvysaur]

I think I might have been having similar "attacks" sporadically since December 2019.

Did you have any shortness of breath with it?

 

[Creative Nature]

Thank you for sharing your experiences, @dfspcc20. Sorry to hear, though, that you're having a similar problem. The tension that accompanies the attacks makes it hard to do anything and completely changes my personality.

@Creative Nature I think I might have been having similar "attacks" sporadically since December 2019. Best described as a sudden feeling of stress/adrenaline (often shortly after eating), then rapid heart beat and breathing, feeling tense, tight neck and shoulders. If I don't lay down, it sometimes progresses to panic attack like symptoms, tingling in arms and top of head, shaking chills. Then I'll have a bowel movement or two, and those symptoms go away rapidly, though my nervous system still feels a bit fried afterwards. I've taken my temp a few times during an attack and it's usually 99.0 deg f +. I haven't taken my blood pressure during.

Yes, very close to what I'm experiencing.

Eating causes movement in the intestine, so if the problem arises somewhere in the intestine, it makes sense to me that eating might trigger it. Eating definitely seems to trigger the attacks for me.

I've noticed exactly the same rise in temp during an attack that you mention.

I did see a PCP and cardiologist about this and they found nothing obvious wrong.
There is a noticeable association between the bowel and these attacks, but it's hard for me to tell if the stress is causing the bowels to move, or the bowel movement is causing the stress...
At first these really scared me, as I've never had anything like it before, and I didn't know if I was having a stroke or heart attack or what. But now there is a lot less fear associated with them, but they're still not pleasant.
Also, similar to your case, these were preceded by an illness in early Dec 2019. Flu-like symptoms with respiratory symptoms as well; that resolved within a few days, but the first of these attacks was maybe a week later. Could be coincidence, but I don't have any other explanation, as I said I never really had anything like it in my life.
Different from your case, though, in that charcoal, cyproheptadine and camphosal all seem to help me. Not so much carrot/bamboo shoot salad.

Very interesting.

Are you still having the attacks often, or have the anti-bacterial measures you mention solved the problem? Has anything else helped you?

I'll try to post an update on my experiments this weekend.

 

[dfspcc20]

Did you have any shortness of breath with it?

Breathing rate increases and is shallower, which I think is expected with stress. I'm never gasping for breath or anything like that. Covid-19 did come to mind when thinking back on my short-lived flu-like symptoms back in December (which did include a dry cough). I have seen some headlines saying people are having long-term issues from it, but I don't really know what to believe in that regard.

Thank you for sharing your experiences, @dfspcc20. Sorry to hear, though, that you're having a similar problem. The tension that accompanies the attacks makes it hard to do anything and completely changes my personality.


Yes, very close to what I'm experiencing.

Eating causes movement in the intestine, so if the problem arises somewhere in the intestine, it makes sense to me that eating might trigger it. Eating definitely seems to trigger the attacks for me.

I've noticed exactly the same rise in temp during an attack that you mention.


Very interesting.

Are you still having the attacks often, or have the anti-bacterial measures you mention solved the problem? Has anything else helped you?

I'll try to post an update on my experiments this weekend.

I definitely haven't been myself the past several months because of this.

Yes, still having issues, though maybe once per week, and not terribly intense. The things like charcoal, cyproheptadine, camphosal don't seem to be long-term solutions unless I take them regularly. Which I'm not totally opposed to, but it doesn't explain why this came on rather suddenly.

Thinking about this more last night, it probably points to an endotoxin issue, at least when viewed from through the Peat-prism. Not sure why all the sudden it happened, maybe something to do with the flu-like illness. But I'm experimenting with less starch now- that is, no more than 1 meal/day with (well-cooked) starch. Starch never seemed to bother me before, if it was well-prepared, so I'm still scratching my head why it'd suddenly be a problem now.

Curious to hear if anything seemed to have helped in your case.

 

[Creative Nature]

Since late May, passage of food through the intestine has become significantly less stressful -- still bad, but any improvement makes a big difference in quality of life. The results of my recent experiments follow.

The most successful experiment so far (suggested by @X3CyO) has been increasing gelatin intake. I have gone from 1-2 tbsps/day of gelatin to 3.5 tbsps most days, and will continue experimenting with higher doses. Improvement tends to arrive a few days after I increase the dose.

I had stopped shining red light (250W heat lamp) on my chest and abdomen, but on @Andman's suggestion, I restarted a few weeks ago. Effects on GI tract are unclear, but red light makes me feel better in other ways, so I'll continue.

On the premise that impurities in supplements could be irritating my intestine, I've continued to try to eliminate supps or reduce doses, but it looks like I've hit the point of diminishing returns. Dropping magnesium glycinate and Energin may have helped a little. Reducing niacinamide failed; my body seems to love B3 right now.

In light of niacinamide's anti-microbial and anti-inflammatory effects, I've been taking an extra 125 mg/day with raw carrot, on the principle (mentioned by RP and Georgi) that the carrot can help transport other substances to the intestine. Seems like this trick may be working.

I still need more protein and (to a lesser extent) more calories. As the intestine heals, I hope I'll be able to eat more of both, which should aid in further healing, etc.

So I have a ways to go, but the outlook is improving. I'll continue to update this thread in case my story can help others with similar problems. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the thread.

 

[Creative Nature]

I definitely haven't been myself the past several months because of this.

Yes, still having issues, though maybe once per week, and not terribly intense.

Glad to hear the intensity has decreased.

Edited to add: Have you noticed any patterns in the timing or circumstances of the attacks?

The things like charcoal, cyproheptadine, camphosal don't seem to be long-term solutions unless I take them regularly. Which I'm not totally opposed to, but it doesn't explain why this came on rather suddenly.

Thinking about this more last night, it probably points to an endotoxin issue, at least when viewed from through the Peat-prism. Not sure why all the sudden it happened, maybe something to do with the flu-like illness. But I'm experimenting with less starch now- that is, no more than 1 meal/day with (well-cooked) starch. Starch never seemed to bother me before, if it was well-prepared, so I'm still scratching my head why it'd suddenly be a problem now.

Maybe you tolerated starch well until the flu-like illness disrupted the intestinal barrier and caused your intestine to leak endotoxin?

I rarely eat starch, which may be the reason why my carb intake seems to have zero effect on my intestinal problems. Increasing protein intake, in contrast, makes my symptoms much worse, which could mean that I'm not digesting protein very well, and the residue is feeding pathogens in my intestine. But if so, then I wonder why antibiotics, cyproheptadine, etc. don't seem to help.

Curious to hear if anything seemed to have helped in your case.

Increasing gelatin intake has probably been the most helpful change I've made, but I haven't yet solved the problem.

 

[aguineapig]

Nicotine can have interesting effects on gut health. Mine is significantly better with a little bit in my "diet".

 

[dfspcc20]

Glad to hear the intensity has decreased.

Edited to add: Have you noticed any patterns in the timing or circumstances of the attacks?

The closest connection I came up with is they start to appear after 2-3 days of eating a lot of starch and/or dairy fat. Both of which would point to endotoxin. But I may be just grasping here.

Maybe you tolerated starch well until the flu-like illness disrupted the intestinal barrier and caused your intestine to leak endotoxin?

That thought crossed my mind as well. Strange thing is that I don't have any other gastrointestinal symptoms. Barely any gas, no bloating or reflux, never constipated, poop consistency has been better than ever (solid, well-formed, easy to pass).

Increasing gelatin intake has probably been the most helpful change I've made, but I haven't yet solved the problem.

What kind of gelatin are you taking? Regular or hydrolyzed?


Also, do you happen to be in an area where 5G has been rolling out? I'm really hesitant to put the blame on something like that, but the roll-out in my area has somewhat coincided as well.

 

[Creative Nature]

Nicotine can have interesting effects on gut health. Mine is significantly better with a little bit in my "diet".

Great, thanks. I may have nicotine gum left over from previous experiments.

Do you find that nicotine helps suppress gut symptoms right away, or do the benefits arise from regular use?

 

[Creative Nature]

The closest connection I came up with is they start to appear after 2-3 days of eating a lot of starch and/or dairy fat. Both of which would point to endotoxin. But I may be just grasping here.

Hmmm...For me, 2-3 days of (relatively) high protein make these symptoms much worse.

What kind of gelatin are you taking? Regular or hydrolyzed?

I think regular. I use NOW Foods beef gelatin.

Also, do you happen to be in an area where 5G has been rolling out? I'm really hesitant to put the blame on something like that, but the roll-out in my area has somewhat coincided as well.

Interesting. My intestinal problems started no later than last spring, and they very likely occurred off and on before then without my realizing what was happening. So I'm guessing my problems pre-date 5G.

 

[aguineapig]

Great, thanks. I may have nicotine gum left over from previous experiments.

Do you find that nicotine helps suppress gut symptoms right away, or do the benefits arise from regular use?

Somewhere in between, for me. It doesn't takes weeks or months or anything like that, but it doesn't do much for me with "spot use".

 

[GMT100]

I had a crazy experience yesterday m. I had a carrot salad the night before but didn't have a bowel movement. I ate bone broth and some dates in the morning followed by my first time ever Having rambutans. Than I had some coffee with a tspnifb gelatin added and had the worst pain in my intestines I ever experienced. It was so painful it was crazy. I felt a small sense of vertigo I went to the bathroom had a small bowel movement and the pain went away. Not sure if this is relatable but just thought I'd share my experience

 

[Recoen]

You said B1 and glycine has triggered this in the past. Both are known to cause oxalate dumping. Your stress response sounds consistent with what I get and what many others report in the trying low oxalates group on fb. Glycine needs B6 to not become oxalate. And B6 needs B2, etc.

 

[tara]

Hi Creative, if you feel like mentioning, what's your gut transit time and consistency like?

I have seen some headlines saying people are having long-term issues from it, but I don't really know what to believe in that regard.

AIUI, Even people who do not seem to have had severe respiratory effects of COVID19 initially, some of them seem to have effects in tissues, including lungs, kidney, heart, GI tract. I'm not saying you had covid-19, or that you didn't. If you are somewhere where testing for that makes sense, you could consider asking to test?

What info/ diagnoses/ hypotheses/treatment have you previously had from the medical system relate to the issues you describe?

This is from wikipedia on Mg hydroxide:

"Magnesium hydroxide is marketed for medical use as chewable tablets, as capsules, powder, and as liquid suspensions, sometimes flavored. These products are sold as antacids to neutralize stomach acid and relieve indigestion and heartburn. It also is a laxative to alleviate constipation. As a laxative, the osmotic force of the magnesia acts to draw fluids from the body. High doses can lead to diarrhea, and can deplete the body's supply of potassium, sometimes leading to muscle cramps.[17]"​

If you've used it regularly for a while, cld it have reduced stomach acid or potassium or something too much? That's just speculation. I've used it occasionally, but I don't use it daily. (I don't share those gut symptoms with you.)

 

[Andman]

@Creative Nature glad youre feeling better. energin (and basically any other b vitamin in ethanol) has great transdermal absorbtion btw, might be worth a try

 

[Creative Nature]

Somewhere in between, for me. It doesn't takes weeks or months or anything like that, but it doesn't do much for me with "spot use".

Thanks; good to know.

 

[Creative Nature]

I had a crazy experience yesterday m. I had a carrot salad the night before but didn't have a bowel movement. I ate bone broth and some dates in the morning followed by my first time ever Having rambutans. Than I had some coffee with a tspnifb gelatin added and had the worst pain in my intestines I ever experienced. It was so painful it was crazy. I felt a small sense of vertigo I went to the bathroom had a small bowel movement and the pain went away. Not sure if this is relatable but just thought I'd share my experience

I don't experience pain during intestinal transit, just the intense adrenergic symptoms, but I see the similarity. Any ideas about how rambutans might have irritated your intestine?

 

[Creative Nature]

You said B1 and glycine has triggered this in the past. Both are known to cause oxalate dumping. Your stress response sounds consistent with what I get and what many others report in the trying low oxalates group on fb. Glycine needs B6 to not become oxalate. And B6 needs B2, etc.

Thank you. The oxalate angle hadn't occurred to me. I'll have to read up on oxalates. I took IdeaLabs' Energin B complex most of the times I used glycine and B1, so I hope I wasn't too low on B6 or B2, but B vitamin deficiencies can take time to correct. It seems like once a compound irritates my intestine, the intestine remains grumpy long after I reduce the dose or eliminate the offending compound. Would oxalate dumping fit that pattern?