Insomnia With Progest E

[jdelvita]

Hi,
I recently started taking nature throid and progest-e under the supervision of a holistic endocrinologist. I don't have a thyroid so I'm on 3 grains of nature throid. In October, I had a D&C because I lost a pregnancy. As a result, I wasn't sure when my period would come. My Dr. suggested I start taking progest-e anyway for 14 days. I've been on it for 10 days at this point. She started me at 10 drops at night before bed. Two nights ago I was awake the entire night. I called her to ask her what to do about that and she said to double up on the Progest-e. So, I took 20 drops last night and while at first I felt very sedated, I started becoming very restless when I went to bed. My legs were shaking and I felt incredibly anxious. I ended up taking Ativan as it was the only thing that I knew would calm me down (I don't take Benzos but my friend had it and I was desperate). Although I had a good night sleep last night, today I continue feeling very anxious. I can't call my Dr. today because it's the weekend so I looking for advice on what to do with the Progest-e. I feel like my period is about to come but somehow stuck and this might be giving me PMS in the form of anxiety.

Any help figuring out what is going on and how I should move forward is very much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[alywest]

Hi,
I recently started taking nature throid and progest-e under the supervision of a holistic endocrinologist. I don't have a thyroid so I'm on 3 grains of nature throid. In October, I had a D&C because I lost a pregnancy. As a result, I wasn't sure when my period would come. My Dr. suggested I start taking progest-e anyway for 14 days. I've been on it for 10 days at this point. She started me at 10 drops at night before bed. Two nights ago I was awake the entire night. I called her to ask her what to do about that and she said to double up on the Progest-e. So, I took 20 drops last night and while at first I felt very sedated, I started becoming very restless when I went to bed. My legs were shaking and I felt incredibly anxious. I ended up taking Ativan as it was the only thing that I knew would calm me down (I don't take Benzos but my friend had it and I was desperate). Although I had a good night sleep last night, today I continue feeling very anxious. I can't call my Dr. today because it's the weekend so I looking for advice on what to do with the Progest-e. I feel like my period is about to come but somehow stuck and this might be giving me PMS in the form of anxiety.

Any help figuring out what is going on and how I should move forward is very much appreciated. Thanks!

Check this thread out, it may answer some questions or add your concerns there: Progest-e Or Not Progest-e, That Is The Question

 

[alywest]

Progesterone: A Side Effect

 

[Xisca]

I had not thought that progest-e migth have been involved also in my sleep difficulties, that are really over now, and I will never go back to progest-e!

 

[nikkmm]

Same thing happens to me if I take it/put it on at night or after 4 pm ish. Feels like cortisol symptoms because I would also get warm. Whether it’s waking up estrogen receptors, converting to cortisol or just stimulating metabolism I really don’t know but now I only use it in the morning and it’s fine. Oh and I switched to Ona’s cream. I prefer topical cream application. But even with that cream, night application especially to a think skinned area created the same effect.

 

[aguilaroja]

Hi,
I recently started taking nature throid and progest-e under the supervision of a holistic endocrinologist. I don't have a thyroid so I'm on 3 grains of nature throid. ...My Dr. suggested I start taking progest-e anyway for 14 days. I've been on it for 10 days at this point. She started me at 10 drops at night before bed. Two nights ago I was awake the entire night. I called her to ask her what to do about that and she said to double up on the Progest-e. So, I took 20 drops last night and while at first I felt very sedated, I started becoming very restless when I went to bed. My legs were shaking and I felt incredibly anxious. I ended up taking Ativan....

It is not common but rarely, especially in the beginning, Progest-E improves thyroid function “too” rapidly. The situations reported included rapid heartbeat, anxiety and insomnia/night-time alertness.

I only know of one anecdote where this happened to person without a thyroid, also taking NDT (my recollection was that it was Armour rather than Naturethroid/Westhroid). It is possible that things are due either improved liver function boosting thyroid activation or synergy between thyroid and progesterone actions.

At minimum, please give thought to switching application of Progest-E to throughout the day/evening in divided amounts. Of course daytime application is best when there is no concern about excessive (possible) progesterone sedation effects for, say, driving or work. Since your provider will be available after the weekend, it may be gentler to taper down the Progest-E amount for the short term.

I hope the Nature-throid is divided up into frequent doses throughout the day, so that the action of T3 in the preparation is spread throughout the day.

(Extra-disclaimer: I am only giving personal perspective, for discussion purposes. It is always best to have in-person professional guidance. I do not know the rationale for this endocrinologist’s recommendations, nor the details in this case.)

 

[jitsmonkey]

This is a product problem not a progesterone problem
OR its a running out of fuel problem... more food/sugar prior to bed is a worthy test.
OR this is a common response to excess E (possibly consider a progesterone product without E as a carrier... HealthNatura makes one based in alcohol, Idealabs has one as well.

 

[Xisca]

This is a product problem not a progesterone problem
OR its a running out of fuel problem... more food/sugar prior to bed is a worthy test.
OR this is a common response to excess E (possibly consider a progesterone product without E as a carrier... HealthNatura makes one based in alcohol, Idealabs has one as well.

This CAN be a progesterone problem as well.
And I solved the problem with ....less food, as hot flushes desappeared at the beginning of a fast. They went down in a few days.
I happen to have low copper and too low phosphore compared to calcium, too low potassium too, low thyroid AND low adrenals.
I am thin with no water retention.
All is context...

 

[Peatful]

Hi,
I recently started taking nature throid and progest-e under the supervision of a holistic endocrinologist. I don't have a thyroid so I'm on 3 grains of nature throid. In October, I had a D&C because I lost a pregnancy. As a result, I wasn't sure when my period would come. My Dr. suggested I start taking progest-e anyway for 14 days. I've been on it for 10 days at this point. She started me at 10 drops at night before bed. Two nights ago I was awake the entire night. I called her to ask her what to do about that and she said to double up on the Progest-e. So, I took 20 drops last night and while at first I felt very sedated, I started becoming very restless when I went to bed. My legs were shaking and I felt incredibly anxious. I ended up taking Ativan as it was the only thing that I knew would calm me down (I don't take Benzos but my friend had it and I was desperate). Although I had a good night sleep last night, today I continue feeling very anxious. I can't call my Dr. today because it's the weekend so I looking for advice on what to do with the Progest-e. I feel like my period is about to come but somehow stuck and this might be giving me PMS in the form of anxiety.

Any help figuring out what is going on and how I should move forward is very much appreciated. Thanks!

Welcome.

Progesterone can speed up your thyroid.
Ray states once taking progesterone some women decreased their NDT by half or more.
You should stay steady on your progesterone dose for two weeks and steady on your 3 grains (to get an accurate picture without flipping around) and chart your temps, pulse, symptoms and get labs drawn.
Then adjust your NDT and progesterone dose accordingly.

 

[DesertRat]

If you've been hypothyroid for a long time and running on adrenaline, you probably have low progesterone because it is a simple molecule low on the steroid tree and easy to convert to cortisol. Once this pathway gets established, it takes a while to break it and be able to tolerate progesterone without getting a cortisol rush. This isn't strict Peaty, but there's a ton of clinical evidence from salivary testing of cortisol and progesterone. Sometimes the way around it is barreling through but for most, you have to nurse the body by first turning off the adrenaline high cortisol with improved thyroid and higher blood sugar/ salt to keep tame it when it starts up. You're likely to go through a phase of feeling wiped out for weeks. Eventually you'll be able to tolerate progesterone.

 

[johnwester130]

Is this safe ?

Ona's Natural 10% Progesterone Oil, 2 oz Eye Dropper

Dissolved in vitamin e from sunflower oil

 

[alywest]

This is a response from another person who was responding to someone who had a similar issue (albeit specifically high blood pressure):

You need to check cortisol levels. Taking progesterone against a high cortisol background can cause the supplemented progesterone to convert to more cortisol. I don’t do well with progesterone but great with pregnenolone which is upstream of progesterone. You left out calcium. Are you getting enough? OJ, milk, cheese & salt? I think you need to get them in correct ratios. It is a balancing act between sodium, potassium, calcium and magnesium. Higher aldosterone hormone stimulates your kidneys to absorb more sodium and water while simultaneously releasing more potassium. Aldosterone secretion is increased by several mechanisms, including decreased blood flow to your kidneys, high serum potassium concentrations, increased acidity of your blood and falling blood pressure. Aldosterone secretion decreases as kidney blood flow increases, serum potassium levels fall, and blood volume increases. Serum sodium concentrations affect aldosterone production. A study published in the April 1985 issue of “Endocrinology” demonstrated that increased serum sodium concentrations – a direct result of increased sodium consumption – decreases aldosterone secretion. You could get aldosterone checked with 24 hr cortisol and work from there.

This quote just popped up on the RPF, too:
Hypothyroidism (which increases the ratio of estrogen to progesterone) is a major cause of excessive sodium loss. -Ray Peat (Salt, energy, metabolic rate, and longevity)

 

[Mad]

Have your insomnia issues included what has been described as "zaps"? See this link on zaps that several of us here have experienced:
Chest "zaps" At Night. Cortisol? Adrenaline?

 

[jitsmonkey]

This CAN be a progesterone problem as well.
And I solved the problem with ....less food, as hot flushes desappeared at the beginning of a fast. They went down in a few days.
I happen to have low copper and too low phosphore compared to calcium, too low potassium too, low thyroid AND low adrenals.
I am thin with no water retention.
All is context...

All is context yes.
Just because you recognize the context doesn't make your conclusion correct.
Removing progesterone altering your symptoms does not confirm your assumption
just provides another variable for the context.

 

[JacquelineNZ]

Hi,
I recently started taking nature throid and progest-e under the supervision of a holistic endocrinologist. I don't have a thyroid so I'm on 3 grains of nature throid. In October, I had a D&C because I lost a pregnancy. As a result, I wasn't sure when my period would come. My Dr. suggested I start taking progest-e anyway for 14 days. I've been on it for 10 days at this point. She started me at 10 drops at night before bed. Two nights ago I was awake the entire night. I called her to ask her what to do about that and she said to double up on the Progest-e. So, I took 20 drops last night and while at first I felt very sedated, I started becoming very restless when I went to bed. My legs were shaking and I felt incredibly anxious. I ended up taking Ativan as it was the only thing that I knew would calm me down (I don't take Benzos but my friend had it and I was desperate). Although I had a good night sleep last night, today I continue feeling very anxious. I can't call my Dr. today because it's the weekend so I looking for advice on what to do with the Progest-e. I feel like my period is about to come but somehow stuck and this might be giving me PMS in the form of anxiety.

Any help figuring out what is going on and how I should move forward is very much appreciated. Thanks!

This is an old tread so nit sure if I can get guidance. Ive bee taking Ray Peat progestE for a few days now and did loading amounts as suggested on site but take soread through day and really feel good but its stopping me sleeping? Also Im conceerned by using it if I have different oesttogens that ise a different phase pathway will it convert progesterone to more oesttogens and make me worse? I see hormones are delicate and I would hate to make my system worse because Im already severe underactive thyrood and mineral depletion with huge gut dysbiosis. Do I need dutch test first to see where my oestrohens are and what pathways they send things down?