Insomnia and "hallucinations"

[BlackMolasses]

I've always had insomnia, but it's gotten seriously worse lately, especially with testosterone use.
At night my brain runs at full speed, want to think about anything and everything, I realized most of my psychological and intellectual evolutions at night.

Yesterday something happened, not only did I have insomnia, but before I could fall asleep thanks to cyprohaptadine I had hallucinations with my eyes closed, like light threads of colors, random shapes, another moment a white triangle that moves in all directions, things like that.
I have a pretty intimidating sight of a woman staring at me with a horrifying gaze, instinctively horrifying and intimidating, it was like somewhere in my imagination but forced, it was quite similar to what can happen to me when a psychedelic trip turns a little bad, those who have already had experience with these products will see.

Eventually when I turned on the light to take some cypro, I was looking at a box on my night stand and noticed an improvement in 3d, I was also quite paranoid with feeling tense in my legs.

All that to say I feel like I have "psychotic insomnia" overnight, probably due to CNS overstimulation from testosterone + histhadelic tendency I guess. It's starting to get complicated because the lack of sleep makes me more and more lazy and naughty during the day.

The cypro works well but the half life is too long and I feel less optimal during the day, the melatonin is actually making my sleep worse.
Benzodiazepines do not work at all for this problem.

Do you have other things to offer?

 

[youngsinatra]

Do you experience hallucinations with cypro or without?

 

[BlackMolasses]

Do you experience hallucinations with cypro or without?

without

 

[youngsinatra]

If high histamine (histadelia) is your problem than methylation support (B9/B12/Trimethylglycine) will likely make you able to sleep. Do you have other signs of histadelia?

High histamine insomnia to me feels like pure-wakefulness, sweating and turning, but not really what you describe, but I guess it‘s possible.

I think that histapenia is more often associated with hallucinations and psychotic symptoms. Histapenia is also associated with high catecolamines, that make you feel overstimulated and make you inable to relax and sleep.

 

[BlackMolasses]

If high histamine (histadelia) is your problem than methylation support (B9/B12/Trimethylglycine) will likely make you able to sleep. Do you have other signs of histadelia?

High histamine insomnia to me feels like pure-wakefulness, sweating and turning, but not really what you describe, but I guess it‘s possible.

I think that histapenia is more often associated with hallucinations and psychotic symptoms. Histapenia is also associated with high catecolamines, that make you feel overstimulated and make you inable to relax and sleep.

I just can't sleep, even though I'm really sedated, the spirit is too strong.
I took a whole bromazepam for the first time a few days ago, it only increased the body sedation (which I already have) but the mind was still very active.
I don't know if I can lack histamine, cyproheptadine calm my problems.

In general, I have problems with madness and ADHD, sometimes with aggression. Maybe too much serotonin and dopamine?
Do you think there are short half-life anti-psychotics out there that might work?

 

[youngsinatra]

I don’t have experience with antipsychotics.

How does your diet look like? Maybe type a typcial day of eating into cronometer and see if there are deficiencies or skewed mineralbratios. I could suspect a high copper:zinc ratio in your case, but this is just speculation.

What supplements are you taking?

 

[youngsinatra]

 

[BlackMolasses]

I don’t have experience with antipsychotics.

How does your diet look like? Maybe type a typcial day of eating into cronometer and see if there are deficiencies or skewed mineralbratios. I could suspect a high copper:zinc ratio in your case, but this is just speculation.

What supplements are you taking?

It's basically what I usually eat, the zinc/copper ratio looks good (a priori)

I didn't put it on the clock, but I'm taking a B complex (thorne stress B)

 

[BlackMolasses]

View attachment 40767

If we stick to this area, I would rather be "under methylated".
I saw that niacinamine influences methylation, does it increase or decrease it? I find it difficult to understand all this.

And if you have the patience: can you explain how methylation influences behavior (cerebral excitement).

 

[youngsinatra]

If we stick to this area, I would rather be "under methylated".
I saw that niacinamine influences methylation, does it increase or decrease it? I find it difficult to understand all this.

And if you have the patience: can you explain how methylation influences behavior (cerebral excitement).

Niacin(amide) does decrease SAMe and thus lower methylation activity, leading to higher histamine and lower cathecolamines, according to my knowledge of the matter.

 

[BlackMolasses]

Niacin(amide) does decrease SAMe and thus lower methylation activity, leading to higher histamine and lower cathecolamines, according to my knowledge of the matter.

But catecholamines are also stimulants, so methylation shouldn't be that important right?

 

[youngsinatra]

But catecholamines are also stimulants, so methylation shouldn't be that important right?

Do you have psychotic symptoms during the day?
Paranoia, anxiety or disturbed thinking, anything?

 

[BlackMolasses]

Do you have psychotic symptoms during the day?
Paranoia, anxiety or disturbed thinking, anything?

I have anger issues, especially when I haven't slept well. I'm not particularly paranoid, but clearly obsessive compulsive.

Funnily both bromazepam and cypro trigger anxiety, I used the first one only once but I took cypro for a week and it made me feel anxious and paranoid, like thinking about some event in the going through it and having paranoid thoughts about it over and over again, it stopped when I stopped taking cypro.

I sleep better if I stress for the next day, masturbation at night seems to amplify the risk of insomnia, or at least is correlated with insomnia.

edit: it may be nothing, but I seem to sleep better during times when I'm more likely to have headaches.

 

[qminati]

ive had every last one of those symptoms throughout my young life starting when I was 14. Its serotonin related 100%. I see a lot of tryptophan in your diet. Your hallucinations are from an active pineal gland. You're tapping into the stuff that dreams are literally made of. You can actually control them. Instead of letting them run wild focus on what you want to see and you will see it. You can even control what you hear in your mind this way. If you are interested in out-of-body experiences now would be the time to attempt them. If you get sleep paralysis don't freak out, it is a precursor to an OBE or astral projection. Don't fear any of it actually, although it is not a state you want your mind to stay in, might as well enjoy the ability to tap into the "other side" It can be an amazing experience and you are in a high serotonin state where you can easily access these experiences.

If you're metabolism is low, raise it and you wont have these problems any more. Look up studies about insomnia, sleep paralysis (if you haven't had this yet it is defenitely possible) hallucinations, anger. pineal glands, you will see all roads lead to serotonin.

 

[Korven]

ive had every last one of those symptoms throughout my young life starting when I was 14. Its serotonin related 100%. I see a lot of tryptophan in your diet. Your hallucinations are from an active pineal gland. You're tapping into the stuff that dreams are literally made of. You can actually control them. Instead of letting them run wild focus on what you want to see and you will see it. You can even control what you hear in your mind this way. If you are interested in out-of-body experiences now would be the time to attempt them. If you get sleep paralysis don't freak out, it is a precursor to an OBE or astral projection. Don't fear any of it actually, although it is not a state you want your mind to stay in, might as well enjoy the ability to tap into the "other side" It can be an amazing experience and you are in a high serotonin state where you can easily access these experiences.

If you're metabolism is low, raise it and you wont have these problems any more. Look up studies about insomnia, sleep paralysis (if you haven't had this yet it is defenitely possible) hallucinations, anger. pineal glands, you will see all roads lead to serotonin.

Interesting... I had suspected that serotonin was heavily involved with sleep paralysis. As a teenager I used to have them literally every single night and would dread going to bed because i was terrified of being transported away to some other dimension with dark entities (?). I am thinking gut irritation is a major culprit.

At some point I learned how to "let go" of the fear, and instead of resisting the sleep paralysis/hostile beings, I would just sort of drift around in a black void for what seemed like ages until I finally woke up.

Thankfully I have not had a sleep paralysis for a long time now. Metabolism and gut health are definitely way better so that might explain it. I can still get them the day after heavy binge drinking though.

Weird stuff!

 

[Korven]

OP I would focus on fixing your gut health (eating digestible foods and avoiding obvious "bad" foods/specific FODMAPS that feed bad bacteria), and also learn how to relax and be okay with uncertainty in life.

 

[qminati]

Interesting... I had suspected that serotonin was heavily involved with sleep paralysis. As a teenager I used to have them literally every single night and would dread going to bed because i was terrified of being transported away to some other dimension with dark entities (?). I am thinking gut irritation is a major culprit.

At some point I learned how to "let go" of the fear, and instead of resisting the sleep paralysis/hostile beings, I would just sort of drift around in a black void for what seemed like ages until I finally woke up.

Thankfully I have not had a sleep paralysis for a long time now. Metabolism and gut health are definitely way better so that might explain it. I can still get them the day after heavy binge drinking though.

Weird stuff!

yup, i had sleep paralysis every single night since i was 14, it wasn't until i was 19 and let go of the fear that it eventually led to OBE's. Drinking 100% induced sleep paralysis and insomnia which lines up with the increased serotonin from alcohol. Basic Ray Peat principles solves this.

 

[redsun]

I've always had insomnia, but it's gotten seriously worse lately, especially with testosterone use.
At night my brain runs at full speed, want to think about anything and everything, I realized most of my psychological and intellectual evolutions at night.

Yesterday something happened, not only did I have insomnia, but before I could fall asleep thanks to cyprohaptadine I had hallucinations with my eyes closed, like light threads of colors, random shapes, another moment a white triangle that moves in all directions, things like that.
I have a pretty intimidating sight of a woman staring at me with a horrifying gaze, instinctively horrifying and intimidating, it was like somewhere in my imagination but forced, it was quite similar to what can happen to me when a psychedelic trip turns a little bad, those who have already had experience with these products will see.

Eventually when I turned on the light to take some cypro, I was looking at a box on my night stand and noticed an improvement in 3d, I was also quite paranoid with feeling tense in my legs.

All that to say I feel like I have "psychotic insomnia" overnight, probably due to CNS overstimulation from testosterone + histhadelic tendency I guess. It's starting to get complicated because the lack of sleep makes me more and more lazy and naughty during the day.

The cypro works well but the half life is too long and I feel less optimal during the day, the melatonin is actually making my sleep worse.
Benzodiazepines do not work at all for this problem.

Do you have other things to offer?

Insomnia is tricky. But if you can't fall asleep then this likely means acetylcholine and/or noradrenaline activity in the brain is too high which is inhibiting the VLPO. Its mostly overmethylation and high copper levels that are associated with sleep disorders and especially insomnia but is not typically an undermethylation problem. It depends and this can be complicated. This is mainly because they raise norepinephrine levels. Methyl donors also make acetylcholine and this can contribute but you are not taking any methyl donors. There are some other things that contribute to insomnia such as high glutamate levels.

View attachment 40771View attachment 40772
It's basically what I usually eat, the zinc/copper ratio looks good (a priori)

I didn't put it on the clock, but I'm taking a B complex (thorne stress B)

Its hard to know what kickstarted your insomnia to begin with but I am going to give you some pointers to change in your diet to hopefully improve this. Steroids tend to increase adrenergic activity dramatically which will contribute to insomnia. Another thing is you need to be donating blood if you take steroids as excess iron will also cause insomnia as it is very stimulating to the body and steroids make you absorb way more iron than normal. But ideally it would be a good idea not to take them.

First things first, you should stop taking B-complex. B vitamins are very stimulatory to the brain and can dramatically increase acetylcholine activity on their own. You also eat potatoes with skin. Potatoes have solanine, an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor, but the skin has even more. I would drop potatoes. Solanine has a long half life in the body (21 hours) this means daily consumption of potatoes leads to a build up of solanine in the body that takes awhile to excrete once consumption stops.

Another major issue is your high intake of multiple stimulatory metals. Iron as I already mentioned, and your copper intake is very high as well. This directly will increase norepinephrine levels and make it much harder to fall asleep. Both iron and copper increase catecholamines which can make it hard to sleep when you have excess. Your manganese intake is also very high. Manganese leads to high glutamate activity due to an accumulation of glutamate in the synapse because it downregulates a major transporter that clears out glutamate from the synapse. Manganese is also an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor which is not necessarily noticeable until you get a lot (which you are). I would try to half that manganese intake by removing some high manganese foods out of your diet. High glutamate and high noradrenaline activity will contribute to a racing mind which has trouble shutting off. You will feel psychotic because your mind literally cannot stop.

Cypro because of its anticholinergic properties and antihistamine properties (which then lowers glutamate activity) helps with sleep. Serotonin however actually helps you transition to a sleeping state just like adenosine and prostaglandin D2 so serotonin is actually good for falling asleep.

I would also recommend getting more calcium this may help you sleep easier. Iron, copper, manganese promote insomnia in high amounts while zinc, calcium, and magnesium tend to improve insomnia. Though zinc can worsen insomnia that is due to acetylcholine and it is also a GABA-A antagonist so even too much zinc can sometimes make insomnia worse so keep zinc at around 20mg a day. Copper should be 1-2mg max especially if your an insomniac. Iron should be less than 20 mg. Manganese around 5-6mg. Avoid solanine (potatoes) and B-complex. The 6 bananas you eat a day are putting your B6 intake very high. B6 can also be quite stimulatory even if its from food and not a supplement. Maybe eat half the amount of bananas instead.

So this is my general recommendation for insomnia that covers most of the bases nutritionally speaking. Hope this helps you out.

 

[BlackMolasses]

Insomnia is tricky. But if you can't fall asleep then this likely means acetylcholine and/or noradrenaline activity in the brain is too high which is inhibiting the VLPO. Its mostly overmethylation and high copper levels that are associated with sleep disorders and especially insomnia but is not typically an undermethylation problem. It depends and this can be complicated. This is mainly because they raise norepinephrine levels. Methyl donors also make acetylcholine and this can contribute but you are not taking any methyl donors. There are some other things that contribute to insomnia such as high glutamate levels.


Its hard to know what kickstarted your insomnia to begin with but I am going to give you some pointers to change in your diet to hopefully improve this. Steroids tend to increase adrenergic activity dramatically which will contribute to insomnia. Another thing is you need to be donating blood if you take steroids as excess iron will also cause insomnia as it is very stimulating to the body and steroids make you absorb way more iron than normal. But ideally it would be a good idea not to take them.

First things first, you should stop taking B-complex. B vitamins are very stimulatory to the brain and can dramatically increase acetylcholine activity on their own. You also eat potatoes with skin. Potatoes have solanine, an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor, but the skin has even more. I would drop potatoes. Solanine has a long half life in the body (21 hours) this means daily consumption of potatoes leads to a build up of solanine in the body that takes awhile to excrete once consumption stops.

Another major issue is your high intake of multiple stimulatory metals. Iron as I already mentioned, and your copper intake is very high as well. This directly will increase norepinephrine levels and make it much harder to fall asleep. Both iron and copper increase catecholamines which can make it hard to sleep when you have excess. Your manganese intake is also very high. Manganese leads to high glutamate activity due to an accumulation of glutamate in the synapse because it downregulates a major transporter that clears out glutamate from the synapse. Manganese is also an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor which is not necessarily noticeable until you get a lot (which you are). I would try to half that manganese intake by removing some high manganese foods out of your diet. High glutamate and high noradrenaline activity will contribute to a racing mind which has trouble shutting off. You will feel psychotic because your mind literally cannot stop.

Cypro because of its anticholinergic properties and antihistamine properties (which then lowers glutamate activity) helps with sleep. Serotonin however actually helps you transition to a sleeping state just like adenosine and prostaglandin D2 so serotonin is actually good for falling asleep.

I would also recommend getting more calcium this may help you sleep easier. Iron, copper, manganese promote insomnia in high amounts while zinc, calcium, and magnesium tend to improve insomnia. Though zinc can worsen insomnia that is due to acetylcholine and it is also a GABA-A antagonist so even too much zinc can sometimes make insomnia worse so keep zinc at around 20mg a day. Copper should be 1-2mg max especially if your an insomniac. Iron should be less than 20 mg. Manganese around 5-6mg. Avoid solanine (potatoes) and B-complex. The 6 bananas you eat a day are putting your B6 intake very high. B6 can also be quite stimulatory even if its from food and not a supplement. Maybe eat half the amount of bananas instead.

So this is my general recommendation for insomnia that covers most of the bases nutritionally speaking. Hope this helps you out.

Thank you very much for your opinion, each information is good to take both to solve my problems and to enrich my "skills" in endocrinology.
You're probably right about the mineral intake, especially calcium which actually tends to be usually much lower than the cronometer I put on.

However even though I want to sleep better I'm afraid of the reduction in catecholamines, I have always had a legendary excitement that has literally allowed me to overcome an enormous amount of stress, to bounce back quickly in any situation, to be able to think and learn extremely quickly, to have creativity and wacky ideas etc etc.
This is precisely why I stopped taking cyproheptadine, it basically turns me into an unmotivated normie after a few days of use.

What I would really like to change is the timing, being able to be very motivated/crazy during the day and the opposite at night (a bit like a child, finally), and not the opposite.

 

[Lilac]

I have posted about my old mother's experiences with hallucinations. To summarize: Gut related. One Benadryl (norepinephrine) before bed for a week or so cleared up this problem. My mother had the whole range of hallucinations--aura, patterns, cartoon characters, people (sometimes pleasant, sometimes menacing), full dramatic scenes of many people in elaborate settings (like a disco floor).

My aunt, my mother's younger sister, also experienced vivid hallucinations during the day, which she knew were only hallucinations. Her doctor diagnosed celiac, and a gluten-free diet eliminated the hallucinations.