“ Influence Of Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) On The Thyroid Hormone Status Of BHE/cdb Rats”

[zarrin77]

Influence of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) on the thyroid hormone status of BHE/cdb rats
Influence of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) on the thyroid hormone status of BHE/cdb rats - ScienceDirect

Full text attached

 

[zarrin77]

Also, cool study with 7-keto (“oxo”) DHEA:

 

[zarrin77]

Effects of 7-oxo-DHEA treatment on the immunoreactivity of BALB/c mice subjected to chronic mild stress

“To determine whether 7-oxo-dehydroepiandrosterone (7-oxo-DHEA) can reverse the hypoimmunity in BALB/c mice exposed to chronic mild stress. A chronic mild stress animal model was established by subjecting BALB/c mice to a stressful regimen arranged in an unpredicted manner for 4 consecutive weeks. Immunological function alternations under chronic mild stress were assessed by lymphocytes proliferative response to mitogens and NK cell lysis activity test. The studies showed the correlation between the state of depression and abnormalities in the immune response, such as a decrease of T lymphocytes proliferative response to Con A and suppression of cytotoxic of NK cell. Meanwhile, significant decrease of T3 and T4 levels was also observed. When stressed mice were daily given 7-oxo-DHEA 15 mg.kg-1, lymphocyte proliferative response and the NK cell activity were significantly enhanced and the decreased levels of T3 and T4 were restored in the stressed mice. 7-oxo-DHEA can improve the depressive symptoms and hypoimmunity of BALB/c mice induced by chronic mild stress as its parent DHEA.”

 

[zarrin77]

The effects of the ergosteroid 7-oxo-dehydroepiandrosterone on mitochondrial membrane potential: possible relationship to thermogenesis.

Administered 3 beta-hydroxyandrost-5-ene-7,17-dione (7-oxo-DHEA) is more effective than 3 beta-hydroxyandrost-5-en-7-one (DHEA) as an inducer of liver mitochondrial sn-glycerol-3-phosphate dehydrogenase and cytosolic malic enzyme in rats. Like DHEA, the 7-oxo metabolite enhances liver catalase, fatty acylCoA oxidase, cytosolic sn-glycerol-3-phosphate dehydrogenase, mitochondrial substrate oxidation rate, and the reconstructed sn-glycerol 3-phosphate shuttle. The mitochondrial adenine nucleotide carrier is diminished by thyroidectomy and is restored to normal activity by administering 7-oxo-DHEA. The relationship between respiratory rate and proton motive force across the mitochondrial membrane was measured in the nonphosphorylating state. When treated with increasing concentrations of respiratory inhibitors liver mitochondria from rats treated with 7-oxo-DHEA or thyroid hormones show a more rapid decline of membrane potential than do normal liver mitochondria. Thus 7-oxo-DHEA induces an increased proton leak or slip as has been reported for the thyroid hormone by M.D. Brand [(1990) Biochem. Biophys. Acta 1018, 128-133]. This process may contribute to the enhanced thermogenesis caused by ergosteroids as well as by thyroid hormones.

 

[Broken man]

Thank you for your work. I am following you. You do a great job.

 

[Goobz]

Agree with the above, great posts and thank you very much for them.

Anyone else shocked at the study of keto dhea in obese people? Firstly at the dose size - 100mg twice a day!

I was also very surprised that things like estradiol and testosterone weren't effected, especially given the size of the dose. I havent heard much about this form of DHEA, but due to this result, I'm guessing its a form that can't be / isn't easily converted into the other hormones?

 

[mrchibbs]

Thank you @zarrin77

This fits well with Ray's work, as I'm sure he had already written that both pregnenolone and progesterone act positively on the thyroid gland, allowing it to produce more hormones.
So now we know that small exogenous doses of those 3 hormones can be useful when trying to recover from an hypothyroid state.

 

[Goobz]

Thank you @zarrin77

This fits well with Ray's work, as I'm sure he had already written that both pregnenolone and progesterone act positively on the thyroid gland, allowing it to produce more hormones.
So now we know that small exogenous doses of those 3 hormones can be useful when trying to recover from an hypothyroid state.

I don't know that the study above really supports that conclusion though - the doses given in people were huge, not small.

 

[mrchibbs]

I don't know that the study above really supports that conclusion though - the doses given in people were huge, not small.

I'm referring to the rat study. Of course, 100mg is too much as to make the results meaningless.

 

[Goobz]

I'm referring to the rat study. Of course, 100mg is too much as to make the results meaningless.

Why do very large doses of something mean that the results suddenly become meaningless? Just because it doesn't fit in with what Ray Peat has said is a good idea, doesn't mean we can just ignore the results. If his ideas are correct, it should come out in the results, right?

This forum is full of examples of studies using supraphysiological dosing. Ray Peat's use of pregnenolone is such an example.

 

[mrchibbs]

Why do very large doses of something mean that the results suddenly become meaningless? Just because it doesn't fit in with what Ray Peat has said is a good idea, doesn't mean we can just ignore the results. If his ideas are correct, it should come out in the results, right?

This forum is full of examples of studies using supraphysiological dosing. Ray Peat's use of pregnenolone is such an example.

Because exogenous DHEA is known to be subject to aromatase, that’s why. Much of that 100mg will have been turned into estrogen, and therefore we can’t glean any insight on the true effects of DHEA

 

[Terma]

from: Sci-Hub | Influence of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) on the thyroid hormone status of BHE/cdb rats. The Journal of Nutritional Biochemistry, 3(4), 194–199 | 10.1016/0955-2863(92)90116-Z

Mohan et al. 23 reported that DHEA treatment increased peroxisomal beta-oxidation and carnitine acetyl transferase activity.

Carnitine O-acetyltransferase - Wikipedia

Those with an inherited deficiency in CRAT activity are at risk for developing severe heart and neurological problems.[5]
Reduced CRAT activity can be found in individuals suffering from Alzheimer’s disease.[5]
CRAT and its family of enzymes have great potential as targets for developing therapeutic treatments for Type 2 diabetes and other diseases.

Interesting about DHEA, 7-oxo-DHEA with T3 inducing malic enzyme (NADPH-producing version I think?)
https://sci-hub.tw/10.1006/abbi.1997.9955

Administered 3 beta-hydroxyandrost-5-ene-7,17-dione (7-oxo-DHEA) is more effective than 3 beta-hydroxyandrost-5-en-7-one (DHEA) as an inducer of liver mitochondrial sn-glycerol-3-phosphate dehydrogenase and cytosolic malic enzyme in rats.

The lower activity of malic enzyme in fasted rats (Table I) as compared to fed rats (Table III) reflects the role of this enzyme in generating NADPH for fat synthesis (37).

Thanks for posting

 

[Goobz]

Because exogenous DHEA is known to be subject to aromatase, that’s why. Much of that 100mg will have been turned into estrogen, and therefore we can’t glean any insight on the true effects of DHEA

Did you not read it? It says in the results that there were no changes to estradiol. I mentioned that with surprise in my post above, as well.

 

[Hans]

Did you not read it? It says in the results that there were no changes to estradiol. I mentioned that with surprise in my post above, as well.

Yeah testosterone and estradiol usually don't change much if at all with DHEA supplementation, but estrone, DHEA and androstenedione go up a lot.

 

[mrchibbs]

Did you not read it? It says in the results that there were no changes to estradiol. I mentioned that with surprise in my post above, as well.

I don’t think the blood tests for estradiol are a good way to measure estrogen levels in the body

 

[Goobz]

Yeah testosterone and estradiol usually don't change much if at all with DHEA supplementation, but estrone, DHEA and androstenedione go up a lot.

Well I've read something similar, with estrone going up more than estradiol, but I've definitely seen a study or two where estradiol has gone up as well. From memory, it was a higher increase in estradiol in men, and higher increase in testosterone in women (which was theorised to explain the acne side effect seen with DHEA supplementation in women, but not men).

25mg Dhea Amazing Study In Men 2004

But my main guess for why it wouldn't go up, would be that it was the keto form of DHEA, which I vaguely remember reading was converted much less, if at all, into estrogen etc.

 

[Broken man]

from: Sci-Hub | Influence of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) on the thyroid hormone status of BHE/cdb rats. The Journal of Nutritional Biochemistry, 3(4), 194–199 | 10.1016/0955-2863(92)90116-Z

Carnitine O-acetyltransferase - Wikipedia

Interesting about DHEA, 7-oxo-DHEA with T3 inducing malic enzyme (NADPH-producing version I think?)
Sci-Hub | | 10.1006/abbi.1997.9955


Thanks for posting

Great one. Thank you.

 

[zarrin77]

Thank you for your work. I am following you. You do a great job.

Thank you, I really appreciate this!

 

[zarrin77]

Agree with the above, great posts and thank you very much for them.

Anyone else shocked at the study of keto dhea in obese people? Firstly at the dose size - 100mg twice a day!

I was also very surprised that things like estradiol and testosterone weren't effected, especially given the size of the dose. I havent heard much about this form of DHEA, but due to this result, I'm guessing its a form that can't be / isn't easily converted into the other hormones?

Yes, the reason they used Keta-DHEA is because earlier studies showed that it does not influence the levels of other steroid hormones much, if at all.
DHEA influences hormonal levels more than ket0-DHEA. Both are bio-identical, some ket0-DHEA gets made from DHEA in the body.