Indicators That I Am/am Not Getting Enough Carbs?

[Deleted member 5487]

How many carbs do I really need?
I am a 22 year old male about 5'11 200lbs with a lot of lean muscle mass and exercise about 3-4x a week heavy weight training.

I feel generally fatigued throughout the day and always have decent sized bags under my eyes. Exercise makes me evan more tired for two days.

Just frustrating as I remember just 5 years ago, I could lift very heavy weights and practice football for hours, and wake up and do it again.

Carbs right now are at about 2 quarts of orange juice, gummy bears, and as much potatos as I can stomach, normally 1-2 russets per meal. Plenty of protein, and a good amount of fat.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[theLaw]

I think that it's difficult to gauge how carbs are effecting you with starch as a staple of the diet unless you have already gone starch-free for some time to see the difference.

Here's a good estimate:

Optimal diet for increasing lifespan

And other factors:

+ Clean the Liver

Caffeine Reverses Stress, Insulin Resistance, Hypertension

High Protein Diet Prevents & Reverses Fatty Liver Disease (steatosis)

+ Fix Digestive Issues

Amino Acid Supplementation For People With Poor Digestion

Ray Peat Potato Protein Soup (RPPPS)

Cyproheptadine - A Wonder Drug?

+ Reduce PUFA in Tissues down to almost nothing

PUFA Depletion Can (probably) Be Accomplished In 30 Days!

Haidut's Summary Of PUFA

VoS uncoupling thread

Cheers!

 

[tara]

How many carbs do I really need?
I am a 22 year old male about 5'11 200lbs with a lot of lean muscle mass and exercise about 3-4x a week heavy weight training.

I don't know exactly how much you need.

I've read that average needs for an average young man are around 3500 cals (Phases of Recovery From An Eating Disorder Part 4). A bit more for extra tall or extra active. Where exactly your needs lie in relation to that at the moment I couldn't say. But if you are eating a great deal less than that, and not thriving, that might be a clue?
I don't know how many meals you eat a day, or how big your potatoes are (around here I've eaten potatoes ranging from ~100g to ~500g) or how much refined gummy bears. Have you run it all through cronometer or similar to get an estimate?

 

[James IV]

How many carbs do I really need?
I am a 22 year old male about 5'11 200lbs with a lot of lean muscle mass and exercise about 3-4x a week heavy weight training.

I feel generally fatigued throughout the day and always have decent sized bags under my eyes. Exercise makes me evan more tired for two days.

Just frustrating as I remember just 5 years ago, I could lift very heavy weights and practice football for hours, and wake up and do it again.

Carbs right now are at about 2 quarts of orange juice, gummy bears, and as much potatos as I can stomach, normally 1-2 russets per meal. Plenty of protein, and a good amount of fat.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks

What's your bodyfat like?

 

[Deleted member 5487]

What's your bodyfat like?

I'd say probably 13%. I've been lifting since about 8th grade. I wonder if my nervous system is taxed out.

 

[Elysium]

Heavy weights 4 times a week is way too much.

2 quarts of oj is about 200 grams of sugar, should be plenty and exactly what Peat recommends. Depending on who you chose to believe, it may be a little too much fructose.

 

[tara]

2 quarts of oj is about 200 grams of sugar, should be plenty and exactly what Peat recommends. Depending on who you chose to believe, it may be a little too much fructose.

Plenty for what?
I think I've seen Peat recommended sufficient carbs to provide for a short term programme of weight/fat loss something like 1l OJ + 2L milk.
I've not seen him recommend 200 g carbs as sufficient to sustain long term health for a large active male. I think he's said things like a few hundred grams of carbs as a more general guideline of what most people need.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Plenty for what?
I think I've seen Peat recommended sufficient carbs to provide for a short term programme of weight/fat loss something like 1l OJ + 2L milk.
I've not seen him recommend 200 g carbs as sufficient to sustain long term health for a large active male. I think he's said things like a few hundred grams of carbs as a more general guideline of what most people need.

Yeah there no way Orange juice could sustain me. Right now I feel the best I have in several days after eating a big thing of potatoes with butter/cheese. Mabey my fat intake was to low?

 

[tara]

Yeah there no way Orange juice could sustain me. Right now I feel the best I have in several days after eating a big thing of potatoes with butter/cheese. Mabey my fat intake was to low?

Yum.
I'm a sedentary woman in my fifties, and 200g carbs is not enough for maintenance for me.

 

[Elysium]

Plenty for what?
I think I've seen Peat recommended sufficient carbs to provide for a short term programme of weight/fat loss something like 1l OJ + 2L milk.
I've not seen him recommend 200 g carbs as sufficient to sustain long term health for a large active male. I think he's said things like a few hundred grams of carbs as a more general guideline of what most people need.

Nope. No short term, and no weight loss related.

"A daily diet that includes two quarts of milk and a quart of orange juice provides enough fructose and other sugars for general resistance to stress"

That is 200 grams. And this was not a passing quote somewhere on a radio talk show, this was a closing statement of his article on sugar. I think the distorted view of Peat as a high carb advocate is the sole reason behind so many peaters' weight gain issues.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Nope. No short term, and no weight loss related.

"A daily diet that includes two quarts of milk and a quart of orange juice provides enough fructose and other sugars for general resistance to stress"

That is 200 grams. And this was not a passing quote somewhere on a radio talk show, this was a closing statement of his article on sugar. I think the distorted view of Peat as a high carb advocate is the sole reason behind so many peaters' weight gain issues.

I was under the impression that the excess fat from diary/ice cream/cheese was the issue. Doesn't it take 450grams of sugars to turn to fat at an inefficient process?

 

[Elysium]

Peat says sugar induced insulin spikes lead to fat gain.

 

[Jsaute21]

How many carbs do I really need?
I am a 22 year old male about 5'11 200lbs with a lot of lean muscle mass and exercise about 3-4x a week heavy weight training.

I feel generally fatigued throughout the day and always have decent sized bags under my eyes. Exercise makes me evan more tired for two days.

Just frustrating as I remember just 5 years ago, I could lift very heavy weights and practice football for hours, and wake up and do it again.

Carbs right now are at about 2 quarts of orange juice, gummy bears, and as much potatos as I can stomach, normally 1-2 russets per meal. Plenty of protein, and a good amount of fat.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks

Honestly this sounds superficial, and going off feel is probably more valuable, but i find people that don't eat enough carbs relative to their body's needs look flat & lifeless in the face. I remember when i eat relatively low carb and was active for a while, i had a host of low metabolism symptoms, but this is one of them. If your lacking vitality, energy, sex drive, athleticism, and don't look as alive as your used to, i would say you are probably suffering from low metabolism and are fat adapted opposed to burning glucose efficiently.

I have found that there are stages to this process. Something like below. (I know it is different for everybody but i think this is a somewhat safe synopsis of becoming sugar adapted after years of burning fat.)

Stage 1: Stress hormones hit. Feel surprisingly good at first, then crash.
Stage 2: Confused about why you feel like ***t.
Stage 3: Implement better habits including high carb. Body is getting better, you just don't know it yet. It is getting used to sugars again, and at first has trouble burning them efficiently as fuel. Symptoms are better than stage 2, but still not ideal.
Stage 4: Start to feel better. Not perfect but progress is being made. You are now starting to listen to your body. (This is where i am.)
Stage 5: I wouldn't know but probably close to Eutopia.

 

[tara]

Nope. No short term, and no weight loss related.

"A daily diet that includes two quarts of milk and a quart of orange juice provides enough fructose and other sugars for general resistance to stress"

That is 200 grams. And this was not a passing quote somewhere on a radio talk show, this was a closing statement of his article on sugar. I think the distorted view of Peat as a high carb advocate is the sole reason behind so many peaters' weight gain issues.

I don't think Peat has taken a set position advocating everyone eat a high carb diet - he's expressed various things, including that 1/3 each C: P: F may be reasonable, that it may vary from person to person, that carbohydrates are good fuel for producing CO2, while some fat is good for digestion, etc.
I don't see a few hundred grams a day as a particularly high-carb diet, esp. for active young men.

I have no doubt that some people with low metabolisms can gain fat when they eat more than 200g carbs depending on what else they eat.
200g sugars/carbs is about 800 cals. If that were only 1/3 of one's calories - say one were eating a similar proportion of calories from protein (another 200g - quite a lot of protein) and fat (around 90g - not unreasonable, but some here are aiming for a lower-fat approach), it would mean a 2400 cal diet. Which is probably enough to run a healthy metabolism for some people - especially smaller, older, more sedentary ones. Not large, active, growing young males like the OP, for whom it would represent a significant calorie deficit that would likely restrict their physical growth, maturity, and health.
Someone posted a quote in the last few days from Peat about a few hundred grams of carbs being needed, from sugars or starch. Can't remember which thread.

 

[James IV]

Nope. No short term, and no weight loss related.

"A daily diet that includes two quarts of milk and a quart of orange juice provides enough fructose and other sugars for general resistance to stress"

That is 200 grams. And this was not a passing quote somewhere on a radio talk show, this was a closing statement of his article on sugar. I think the distorted view of Peat as a high carb advocate is the sole reason behind so many peaters' weight gain issues.

This x2.
It seems to be intrinsic in peoples view of Ray Peat that we need constant sugar intake to avoid stress response, and that Ray Peat is pro high carb. Ray Peat is sufficient carb. The amount of carbohydrate it takes to sustain a non stressed system is minimal. And if a person is overweight, they likely already have plenty of glucose available to last them a long time with minimal carbohydrate intake.

I've told Ray my diet, and he thinks it's "probably pretty close to optimal." Hint* it's not high carb by any stretch.

To the OP. I would be more focuses on making sure you are getting sufficient calories and adequate protein. If you are, then you can manipulate carb to fat ratios and see what makes you look/feel the best.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Nope. No short term, and no weight loss related.

"A daily diet that includes two quarts of milk and a quart of orange juice provides enough fructose and other sugars for general resistance to stress"

That is 200 grams. And this was not a passing quote somewhere on a radio talk show, this was a closing statement of his article on sugar. I think the distorted view of Peat as a high carb advocate is the sole reason behind so many peaters' weight gain issues.

I have found weight loss from drinking 2% milk eating cheese and butter. Going ultra high carb leads to weight gain and lots of water weight

 

[dbh25]

To the OP. I would be more focuses on making sure you are getting sufficient calories and adequate protein. If you are, then you can manipulate carb to fat ratios and see what makes you look/feel the best.

How does one determine an adequate protein amount?

 

[James IV]

How does one determine an adequate protein amount?

If you eat more, and you feel better, you probably need to eat more. You will also notice better muscle and skin tone, and less edema, if a deficiency is corrected.